747 cargo down in Afghanistan

My bet is the loadmaster is no longer able to be held accountable. 7 fatalities.
 
Amazing vid. History of accidents at BAF. During the year I was there we had a A300 lose its left main and skid off the runway.
 
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Skylane81E said:
Adam, I suspect the NTSB will investigate as it is a N registered plane
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Apparently so since I got this in my e-mail this morning.

NTSB TO ASSIST AFGHAN AUTHORITIES WITH INVESTIGATION INTO BAGRAM CARGO PLANE CRASH
April 30, 2013

WASHINGTON - The National Transportation Safety Board will lead a team to assist the Afghanistan Ministry of Transportation and Commercial Aviation in the investigation of a cargo plane crash at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.

NTSB Senior Air Safety Investigator Tim LeBaron will be the U.S. accredited representative. He will lead a team of three additional investigators from the NTSB as well as representatives from the Federal Aviation Administration and The Boeing Company.

The private cargo plane, a Boeing 747-400 operated by National Air Cargo, crashed just after takeoff from the U.S.-operated air base at 11:20 a.m. local time Monday. All seven crewmembers onboard were killed and the airplane destroyed. The seven crew members were all American citizens. The accident site is within the perimeter of Bagram Air Base.

The international cargo flight was destined for Dubai World Central - Al Maktoum International Airport, Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

The Afghanistan Ministry of Transportation and Commercial Aviation is leading the investigation and will be the sole source of information regarding the investigation. According to the International Civil Aviation Organization, they can be reached at (873) 68 2341450 / 49 or by fax at (873) 68 1280784.
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With a serious post crash fire like that, I don't know what the investigators will be able to recover for investigation. I know they are skilled, and will make some progress, but I can't figure how much of anything survived enough to make any arguments based on the post crash site.
 
docmirror said:
With a serious post crash fire like that, I don't know what the investigators will be able to recover for investigation. I know they are skilled, and will make some progress, but I can't figure how much of anything survived enough to make any arguments based on the post crash site.
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The video is a good clue
 
Skylane81E said:
The video is a good clue
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....anything survived enough to make any arguments based on the post crash site. No mention of the video evidence in my post. I'm sure they will be looking at it, but my commentary was strictly related to the post crash site, after extensive fire damage. That would confirm, or reject the most obvious aft-CG theory. It could be stuck flight controls, although I've never heard of that on the 747, it did happen on a DC-8 with a stuck jackscrew on the T tail.
 
docmirror said:
My bet is the loadmaster is no longer able to be held accountable. 7 fatalities.
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Had always thought there was a cargo guy that was not part of the flight crew. My uncle that flew C46s over the hump told me they always fought with the loadmaster because he always tried to overload the plane as he got R&R for every X pounds of cargo he shipped out and he got to stay on the ground and avoid the risk of flying over weight.

I think I also recall the cargo crew at the old Value Jet being taken to the mat for the improper loading of the O2 Canisters that caused the inflight fire over the Florida Everglades.:dunno:
 
docmirror said:
....anything survived enough to make any arguments based on the post crash site. No mention of the video evidence in my post. I'm sure they will be looking at it, but my commentary was strictly related to the post crash site, after extensive fire damage. That would confirm, or reject the most obvious aft-CG theory. It could be stuck flight controls, although I've never heard of that on the 747, it did happen on a DC-8 with a stuck jackscrew on the T tail.
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Agreed
 
Re: Dash cam of crash in Bagram. Not for the feint of heart

If that doesn't give you the chills....

Godspeed to the crew.
 
Re: Dash cam of crash in Bagram. Not for the feint of heart

To be pedantic, it was a 747-400 and not a "civilian c-4 galaxy".
 
Eagle I said:
Wow, that video is really painful to watch.
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Yes it is, I kept thinking about how slow it was and the fear in the crews minds. Horrible. I also thought what is with the guy in the vehicle with the dash cam. From his profile I think he is an Aussie, he whispered one F-bomb but thats it. Not that he could do much but he just sat there for a while.
 
Re: Dash cam of crash in Bagram. Not for the feint of heart

What happened? It looks like it just went vertical, stalled and fell out of the sky.

Cargo shift maybe?
 
AdamZ said:
Had always thought there was a cargo guy that was not part of the flight crew.
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Well, I don't know, which is why I worded it that way. Seven fatalities, the flight was not that long so I can't imagine they had a double crew, although that is a possibility as well. I kind of presumed that a 747 cargo plane would have an assigned loadmaster, and he would stay with the plane all the time. I could be wrong too.
 
AdamZ said:
Yes it is, I kept thinking about how slow it was and the fear in the crews minds. Horrible. I also thought what is with the guy in the vehicle with the dash cam. From his profile I think he is an Aussie, he whispered one F-bomb but thats it. Not that he could do much but he just sat there for a while.
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Yeah, that feeling of utter helplessness and terror must have been awful. And aside from the motorist's lack of expression (I probably would have been screaming F-bombs and other things), I also found it strange that he got so close. I think I would have been making a frantic U-turn had I been the driver. But who knows what one would really do in that situation ... In any case, very sad for the crew and their families.
 
AdamZ said:
Had always thought there was a cargo guy that was not part of the flight crew. My uncle that flew C46s over the hump told me they always fought with the loadmaster because he always tried to overload the plane as he got R&R for every X pounds of cargo he shipped out and he got to stay on the ground and avoid the risk of flying over weight.

I think I also recall the cargo crew at the old Value Jet being taken to the mat for the improper loading of the O2 Canisters that caused the inflight fire over the Florida Everglades.:dunno:
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I believe that the term loadmaster varies depending on the organization.

In the Air Force, the loadmaster is part of the crew. In other organizations (airlines and air cargo outfits) that role is performed by someone on the ground. UPS and FEDEX for example fly around with only 2 pilots in the whole bloody plane. This airplane apparently had 7 people on board. I have no idea what the roles of those 7 were.
 
tmyers said:
I wonder if space A people are allowed on the civilian cargo flights?
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I believe it would largely depend on both the contract and the aircraft configuration. Being a 747, it is possible there was a pax section on the upper deck and cargo on the main deck. Some of the seven could have been military escorts for the gear, although the news reports have said all seven were civilians and National put out a press release saying that all were crew:

Those killed were four pilots, two mechanics and a load master, who is responsible for making sure that the weight and balance of the cargo is appropriate, said company Vice President Shirley Kaufman.
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http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...e-crashes-in-afghanistan-5-dead-from-michigan#
 
Horrid event. Chilling video. Godspeed and condolences to the families.
 
tmyers said:
Alaska Airlines Flight is the one that had the stripped jackscrew.
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Correct, although there was an Emery DC-8 that crashed into a salvage yard at Sacramento that had an elevator control tab bolt that failed. They initially thought that was a load shift.
 
MultiMediaWill said:
Found a youtube version for those who prefer it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1airHY0mtsc
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I have no preference to where it is hosted - since it is like watching someone fall from a building to their death, I now prefer not to have seen it at all. Other than morbid curiosity, there was nothing new I learned from it that could help me in the future.

It is the stuff of piloting nightmares.
 
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