7-4 Bonanza down near Aspen

[Wagondriver]

A few things: 1. There are no trees over about 12,100', that is tree line in the area immediately surrounding Aspen. 2. People fly the mountains in the winter all the time, I am one of them. Sure, there can be winds, but there can be winds ANY time of the year. 3. While I do not fly out of Aspen, I fly out of Glenwood Springs, flying over the continental divide is not forbidden or frowned upon or anything like that. If your plane can climb higher than the terrain, go for it. Brief the weather like you would anywhere else. 4. Leaning is required for all phases of operation. I lean aggressively on the ground for taxi, I lean slightly for take off, I lean aggressively in cruise flight. To not lean is to not use all the power you have available.
The Roaring Fork River valley, the one that leads to Independence Pass, is NOT hard to see, and not really a canyon. Leave the airport, fly over town and you are on your way. The only valley that could confuse someone is Lincoln Creek, but it is fairly wide near the top end, just don't fly up Grizzly Creek or you will likely add your aluminum to the pieces already there.
Back in the 50's, bone stock, heavily loaded 170's and 180's flew skiers from the Aspen airport to the top of what is now Snowmass Ski area. They also flew into many other areas up into the low 12,000's. A few were wrecked on take off, one still remains on the Crested butte side of Pearl Pass, dropped off the skiers, but on takeoff clipped the terrain and wrecked. Others on the Aspen side were left overnight only to be thrashed by the wind, then removed by dogsled teams in pieces. The point is, those planes were loaded with 4 people in winter gear, with skis, and they landed and took off from those altitudes. Planes can and do fly up there, just make sure YOUR plane is capable.
The July 3 crash this year was in a plane with marginal capability. The pilots did not plan their flight, nor plan an escape in the event of not out climbing terrain. That plane could fly in and out of Aspen all year long, just as long as you pay attention to the performance capabilities.
Winter in the mountains can be some of the best flying of the year, with snow cover there is very little differential heating. It is often quite smooth even if windy. I flew a Husky from KGWS to Minnesota in February two years ago, 40mph tailwind over the pass at 13,700, I have had many flights over that pass with minimal wind that were far rougher.

 

[iamtheari]

Air Safety Institute made a nice video about this one. I think they credited our own @sarangan for part of the video. (See post #83 above.)

 

[Ed Haywood]

IMO the controller made a mistake in using a local term that outsiders might not understand. I've got a buddy who is a 6th generation Aspen native. "Down valley" is a cardinal direction for the locals. If those guys had flown towards Glenwood Springs to climb, then turned back east, they would have been fine. I'm not blaming ATC, but accidents are an accumulation of errors, and commonly understood phraseology might have helped the pilots comprehend their options better.

AHA! The pilots did not understand what "down valley" meant, and asked ATC for clarification. I still wonder if they understood the implication, eg "down the valley" as in downhill, as opposed to up the valley, as in uphill, into rising terrain.

 

[3393RP]

AHA! The pilots did not understand what "down valley" meant, and asked ATC for clarification. I still wonder if they understood the implication, eg "down the valley" as in downhill, as opposed to up the valley, as in uphill, into rising terrain.

One would think that's an easily understandable concept. Perhaps I think that because I grew up in a city whose elevation was 5,300' MSL.

I was in disbelief when listening to the radio communications. "We'll just depart VFR then." "We were gonna make that decision once we take off, and once we see what's going on."

These guys acted so cavalierly it's stunning. They had no idea they were making decisions that would end their lives, but they should have. They were flying a piston single on a hot July afternoon through some of the highest mountains in America. The DA at ASE was 10,500' MSL. The right seat pilot had an ATP rating with DA-50, DA-7X, G-1159, G-IV, and G-V type ratings. He was clearly familiar with complex jet aircraft and CRM, and had thousands of hours, yet he and his companion made decisions a pair of hundred hour greenhorns would have turned away from.

The owner/pilot of the Bonanza had earned his PPL fourteen months before the crash. It's not a stretch to believe he was deferring to the implied skill and knowledge of his ATP rated companion while making decisions, and that the second pilot was acting with the bravado that might be expected of a seasoned professional acting as a safety pilot (mentioned in the video) to a lesser skilled friend.

I suspect the right seater was responsible for the idea of a fuel stop in Aspen. Perhaps he had previously flown into ASE in a jet. If so, maybe he convinced his companion Aspen would be a cool place to have lunch.

However, IFR operations, the avionics in a Falcon or Gulfstream, a second pilot, OpSpecs, and the discipline of corporate flying is a far cry from a Bonanza. One wonders when was the last time he flew a piston single. Even if it was recent, it's probable none of it involved high altitude mountain flying.

Yes, I'm speculating, and without a doubt more than what is common in the typical POA crash analysis. But the egregious mistakes and the lack of respect afforded some very challenging flying are astounding, particularly so when considering the experience of the right seat pilot.

 

[iamtheari]

I suspect the right seater was responsible for the idea of a fuel stop in Aspen. Perhaps he had previously flown into ASE in a jet. If so, maybe he convinced his companion Aspen would be a cool place to have lunch.

However, IFR operations, the avionics in a Falcon or Gulfstream, a second pilot, OpSpecs, and the discipline of corporate flying is a far cry from a Bonanza. One wonders when was the last time he flew a piston single. Even if it was recent, it's probable none of it involved high altitude mountain flying.

Your comment gives me a bit of an idea why they would have filed the SID that they couldn’t fly. Maybe ATP Guy filed or at least came up with the flight plan and chose the SID because that’s what would make sense in a turbine, and didn’t look at the altitudes in the SID because he was used to just filing them without worrying about such trivialities. We’ll never know. But complacency is a killer, whether you’re a rookie or an old pro.

 

[Morgan3820]

Obviously, the pilots made some poor choices. My question is given the right choices, could the flight have been successful? If they had made a few more circuits above the airport to gain altitude could have made it? Or were they doomed the minute they push the throttle?

 

[Torque beast]

I have not done any mountain flying so this is just my opinion but the info given says they were still climbing but at a pathetic rate so I would assume if they made enough turns to get an altitude that would get them higher than the highest point they needed to pass over(with sufficient clearance) before they started outbound then they should have made it short of any mechanical failures. Just my opinion


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[Mikey B]

Obviously, the pilots made some poor choices. My question is given the right choices, could the flight have been successful? If they had made a few more circuits above the airport to gain altitude could have made it? Or were they doomed the minute they push the throttle?

They weren't doomed until they got too far up that valley to turn back. Until then, they had a way out.

 

[MauleSkinner]

AHA! The pilots did not understand what "down valley" meant, and asked ATC for clarification. I still wonder if they understood the implication, eg "down the valley" as in downhill, as opposed to up the valley, as in uphill, into rising terrain.

One would think that's an easily understandable concept. Perhaps I think that because I grew up in a city whose elevation was 5,300' MSL.

I think terms that make sense to us don’t make sense to others because the meaning of words has been diluted by colloquialisms and the attitude that “words simply mean what I decide they mean.” Up is no longer up, down is no longer down.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Obviously, the pilots made some poor choices. My question is given the right choices, could the flight have been successful? If they had made a few more circuits above the airport to gain altitude could have made it? Or were they doomed the minute they push the throttle?

Absolutely. Take off, fly "down valley", eg turn away from rising terrain and climb NW towards Glenwood Springs until you reach an altitude sufficient to clear the pass, then reverse direction and continue on course.

 

[sourdough44]

Often flying direct doesn’t work well out West, or in terrain, just the way it is.

With experience, preflight planning time may be shorter, but can’t safely be zero either.
We all know this adage.

 

[Echo419]

Absolutely. Take off, fly "down valley", eg turn away from rising terrain and climb NW towards Glenwood Springs until you reach an altitude sufficient to clear the pass, then reverse direction and continue on course.

As a flatlander I could easily interpret "down valley" as referring to a southern valley/canyon. I think they meant to head towards Independence Pass, but got confused and went into the wrong canyon. Though I don't think they had even climbed enough for Independence Pass and likely still would have encountered trouble.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Considering that normal operations are to land 15 and take off on 33, to me it seems obvious as to what direction “down valley” is.

 

[steingar]

I think to fly a plane without a turbo and O2 on that day they had to have a really solid plan. "we'll see what's going on" just doesn't cut it in that position. I'll see what's going on to determine if I have room under the clouds, not if I can overfly a damn mountain. I get that out of my performance tables taken with a spoonful of salt. I ever fly out that way I'm going to have a plan, a backup plan, and probably a backup to the backup. Those rocks aren't to be taken lightly.