68 yr old gentleman killed at KLAL today

Not to worry, the NTSB will be on the case soon enough to "cast judgement in the name of neutrality". NTSB is like a catholic mother...even if your heart exploded it's still your fault. :D
 
Clip4 said:
Those tracks are rather large and deep to be from a LS aircraft moving and producing lift. I wondered if the tracks are from a fire truck at the scene.
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Looking at the tracks more carefully, they are not continuous and do not appear to come in from the right of the picture frame. There is also what appears to be debris near the start of the tracks. Could they be the tracks for the very hard impact of the wheels?
 
Sluggo63 said:
Sorry, that’s not what happened. Didn’t you see @Clip4 post above? Already been determined to be a flat spin. Case closed. No investigation necessary.
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A flat spin takes considerable altitude to develop. More than circuit altitude.
 
It seems solely based on the pilot’s reported age of 68 we’ve referred to him by the age-patronizing term “gentleman” and immediately jumped to probability of a medical incapacitation.
C’mon guys - 68 does not necessitate flying west!:rolleyes:

.....and why entitle the thread with his age? “23 yo Gentleman”? - probably not.
 
Groundpounder said:
If he only had a Basic Med cert, he probably had a medical issue that would have prevented him from getting a 3rd class.
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No. He has to have held a 3rd class before he can go Basic Med. And not all medical reasons for choosing Basic Med are prohibitive for flight.

For example, my class 3 was issued with an SI due to a liver condition (autoimmune). I'm on an approved medication and I'm monitored by a gastro specialist throughout the year, and have been under his treatment for 8 years now. Rather than jump through SI hoops every year, and risk delays in renewal, I now have Basic Med.

Basic Med is a way of eliminating unnecessary red tape, delays, test reports, etc.

BUT, I'll repeat myself: this guy was a SP student and didn't need a class 3 and he didn't need Basic Med. A valid driver's license was the only requirement. Furthermore, there's nothing that points to a medical problem causing the crash.
 
Basic med and flat spins. Geez. I’m not usually opposed to speculation but this is ridiculous. Why a flat spin in particular? Because the plane landed flat? Sheesh.

I think it’s because light sport doesn’t require a class 1 medical, spin training and basic aerobatics before solo. Nobody should be in the pattern unless they can do a split S while doing chin ups from the wing.

This is what killed goose for crying out loud. I loved goose.
 
Groundpounder said:
If he only had a Basic Med cert, he probably had a medical issue that would have prevented him from getting a 3rd class.
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Half Fast said:
Basic Med is a way of eliminating unnecessary red tape, delays, test reports, etc.
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Indeed. I had a 3rd class. My AME shut down his practice and joined the dark side (FAA). Basic Med met my needs and was much easier than finding a new AME.
 
Salty said:
This is what killed goose for crying out loud. I loved goose.
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No, this is what kills goose, and I love goose, too:

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Question. Do think touch and goes should be done on your solo flight? Seems to me when I soloed we flew for about 30min, then the CFI got out and I did one lap in the pattern, full stop.
 
AKBill said:
Question. Do think touch and goes should be done on your solo flight? Seems to me when I soloed we flew for about 30min, then the CFI got out and I did one lap in the pattern, full stop.
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Yes, if you can't do a touch and go safely you probably shouldn't be soloing. My solo was in Sanford ME many years ago. My instructor got out of the airplane and stood on the side of the runway and told me 3 touch and goes, don't forget to come back and get me. Bounced the first one a little, the second was good, by the third the wind shifted into a crosswind, I landed and picked him up. He asked me if I noticed the wind shift, I told him yup, I was crabbed on that final (just a little but enough to notice the crosswind.) He signed me off for solo flight right there and cut my tee shirt when I got back.
 
wrbix said:
It seems solely based on the pilot’s reported age of 68 we’ve referred to him by the age-patronizing term “gentleman” and immediately jumped to probability of a medical incapacitation.
C’mon guys - 68 does not necessitate flying west!:rolleyes:

.....and why entitle the thread with his age? “23 yo Gentleman”? - probably not.
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Exactly. My dad is 68 and still rides motocross. Has he slowed down? Sure. But 68 doesn’t automatically equate to day after day in a recliner watching tv.
 
AKBill said:
Question. Do think touch and goes should be done on your solo flight? Seems to me when I soloed we flew for about 30min, then the CFI got out and I did one lap in the pattern, full stop.
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Everyone at my flight school did T&G solos, and not only that, as many as they wanted. I just did three. I told my CFI to get out when I was ready.
 
AKBill said:
Question. Do think touch and goes should be done on your solo flight? Seems to me when I soloed we flew for about 30min, then the CFI got out and I did one lap in the pattern, full stop.
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Mine had me do 3 circuits. Got out, then I did 2 t&g and a full stop.
Of course they switched runway direction from 16 to 34 on me between the last t&g and full stop. My solo shirt has a neat drawing of a teardrop pattern and says “switched pattern like a boss.” Haha
 
PaulS said:
My instructor got out of the airplane and stood on the side of the runway and told me 3 touch and goes, don't forget to come back and get me.
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At least you remembered your instructor. I don't get excited very easily, but I did that day.

I did 2 T&Gs and a full stop, but I forgot to pick up my instructor.....
 
My solo was at my home drome and my CFI went into the office. Said he couldn’t bear to watch. Three full stops, but I did T&Gs as a student afterwards.

This probably wasn’t the student’s initial solo. He was in training for a long time, so this might have been refamiliarization after a layoff, but I’m guessing.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Everyone at my flight school did T&G solos, and not only that, as many as they wanted. I just did three. I told my CFI to get out when I was ready.
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Students Restrictions:
1. No Touch and Go takeoff and landings.
 
Clip4 said:
Students Restrictions:
1. No Touch and Go takeoff and landings.
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When I got my ticket 25 years ago, my instructor made me do full stop/taxi back circuits for my first 3 solo takeoffs/landings. After that, touch and goes were the norm. Was I breaking the rules then, or have the rules changed?
 
Omalley1537 said:
Mine had me do 3 circuits. Got out, then I did 2 t&g and a full stop.
Of course they switched runway direction from 16 to 34 on me between the last t&g and full stop. My solo shirt has a neat drawing of a teardrop pattern and says “switched pattern like a boss.” Haha
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It’s a flight school/CFI choice. My flight school standard was three full stops with the CFI aboard (without any input) then three full stops solo.
 
kyleb said:
When I got my ticket 25 years ago, my instructor made me do full stop/taxi back circuits for my first 3 solo takeoffs/landings. After that, touch and goes were the norm. Was I breaking the rules then, or have the rules changed?
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We simulposted. The standards are set by the flight school or independent CFI. My experience was exactly the same as yours, five years ago.
 
kyleb said:
When I got my ticket 25 years ago, my instructor made me do full stop/taxi back circuits for my first 3 solo takeoffs/landings. After that, touch and goes were the norm. Was I breaking the rules then, or have the rules changed?
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No, I am saying that is what I include in my student restrictions. It is number 1. Touch and go landings by solo students add an unneeded risk factor. A lot of folks will argue that is BS, but they can allow the students flying on their signature to do touch and go if they want.

I also never do touch and go in a complex aircraft with students, my choice.
 
PaulS said:
Yes, if you can't do a touch and go safely you probably shouldn't be soloing. My solo was in Sanford ME many years ago. My instructor got out of the airplane and stood on the side of the runway and told me 3 touch and goes, don't forget to come back and get me. Bounced the first one a little, the second was good, by the third the wind shifted into a crosswind, I landed and picked him up. He asked me if I noticed the wind shift, I told him yup, I was crabbed on that final (just a little but enough to notice the crosswind.) He signed me off for solo flight right there and cut my tee shirt when I got back.
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Paul, I guess my CFI wanted to let me do one full stop, come back and talk about it. He felt it was an accomplishment for the student and wanted to talk to the student after their first solo landing. I was good with that, and still am...:)
 
AKBill said:
Paul, I guess my CFI wanted to let me do one full stop, come back and talk about it. He felt it was an accomplishment for the student and wanted to talk to the student after their first solo landing. I was good with that, and still am...:)
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Hey Bill, you asked so I said my experience and opinion, I in no way meant to infer that you were not ready to solo and I certainly respect your instructor's method of instructing. I still remember that first takeoff, then landing alone in the airplane, it was an eerie feeling. That was about 30 years ago. I stopped flying about 3 years later due to financial consideration. I just had my first "re-solo" last year, almost as thrilling truth be told.
 
I guess I should be horrified that my CFI not only let me do solo touch and goes, but even those most dangerous of manuvers, the stall. Of course, by then I had done so much dual time due to weather, I did my 3 touch and goes, came in and was signed off for my first solo XC the same day.
 
My school requires the main instructor to sign off on you before your instructor can solo you.

Main instructor works a couple hours a week and just randomly takes weeks off. Took a month to get an appointment for the day after Christmas. Then I go up with instructor who will verify me and sign me off to solo.

So I will not solo till after 40 hours. I either could stop flying until the main instructor was available or just rack up hours. Waste of money in my opinion and wish I knew more before choosing a school. Probably going to cost me an additional $4,000 in flight time since I didn’t want to stop flying while I waited for a solo appointment.

As my instructor said I’ll be the most qualified solo pilot he’ll be signing off.
 
Omalley1537 said:
Exactly. My dad is 68 and still rides motocross. Has he slowed down? Sure. But 68 doesn’t automatically equate to day after day in a recliner watching tv.
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I hope 68 doesn't mean you hang it up. That's less than 1 1/2 years away!

As to T&G vs. full stop on your initial solo, mine was 2 T&Gs and a full stop. 18 years ago. I still remember that day well.
 
woodchucker said:
It’s a flight school/CFI choice. My flight school standard was three full stops with the CFI aboard (without any input) then three full stops solo.
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Damn that is some accelerated training.
 
AKBill said:
Question. Do think touch and goes should be done on your solo flight? Seems to me when I soloed we flew for about 30min, then the CFI got out and I did one lap in the pattern, full stop.
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No! Full stop taxi-back is required, otherwise you can't count the landings. That's what I told my granddaughter when I soloed her on her 16th.



Of course, she was in a Citabria. :cool:
 
Common things happen commonly. Unfortunately. Probably a stall. Was he bouncing around?? Thought I read that. Possible power on stall dirty??
God bless.
 
Groundpounder said:
If he only had a Basic Med cert, he probably had a medical issue that would have prevented him from getting a 3rd class.
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????? That's kinda, uhh, nonsense. . .None of the meds are worth much for predicting in-flight issues, say, more than 30 seconds after the exam. In-flight incapacitation has never been a statistically significant accident cause.

Plenty of Basic Med guys can pass a med, III class or higher, myself included. The III Class was always mostly a worthless exercise.
 
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