30 NM TFR ring for POTUS

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
Yeah, it hits home this week.

Anybody deal with this on a VFR basis? This happens at least once a year around here. Not often enough for anybody to get used to it, so flight ops, other than IFR flights, pretty much just shut down until it lifts.
 
you can operate inside the 10/30 ring IFR no problem - or file a VFR flight and use it while on a FF code.

But no flight training, model rockets, model airplanes, etc etc etc in the 10mile ring.

Its all spelled out. I try to go fly when the guy is here just to give the USSS something to look at. The airport is nice and quiet and you are usually the only traffic . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
you can operate inside the 10/30 ring IFR no problem - or file a VFR flight and use it while on a FF code.

But no flight training, model rockets, model airplanes, etc etc etc in the 10mile ring.

Its all spelled out. I try to go fly when the guy is here just to give the USSS something to look at. The airport is nice and quiet and you are usually the only traffic . . .
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I know it's all spelled out. Typically, like you noted, very few bother with flying at all.
 
Never give up, file IFR anytime you can through the TFR. If it's VMC no one will ask if you are qualified.
 
Ran into this on a trip to Vegas in November, Dear Leader decided he needed to fund raise in Vegas same weekend my Wife and I went for our anniversary - boom, pop-up TFR with like 2 days notice.

File IFR and still be prepared for amended clearances as you get closer - VFR flight plan is supposed to be OK but I didn't want to risk it, still ended up with 3 amended clearances on the way (starting when we crossed over PSP), YMMV.

'Gimp
 
When the POTUS visits our town, he flies into the big international airport and you would expect that the TFR would have the standard 10nm radius inner core ring no-fly zone and the bigger outer core ring for IFR- and FF-only aircraft. So our little GA airport 13nm from the big international 11,000 rwy monstrosity is safe, right? Nope. The Secret Service a-hole who sets up TFRs must hate GA because he drops an extra innner-core circle offset just far enough to cover our little podunk airport.
Like us aging white guys with little 172's, Cherokees and RVs wear towels and yell "halalalala". Secret Service sometimes surprises me.
 
BigBadLou said:
When the POTUS visits our town, he flies into the big international airport and you would expect that the TFR would have the standard 10nm radius inner core ring no-fly zone and the bigger outer core ring for IFR- and FF-only aircraft. So our little GA airport 13nm from the big international 11,000 rwy monstrosity is safe, right? Nope. The Secret Service a-hole who sets up TFRs must hate GA because he drops an extra innner-core circle offset just far enough to cover our little podunk airport.
Like us aging white guys with little 172's, Cherokees and RVs wear towels and yell "halalalala". Secret Service sometimes surprises me.
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The POTUS's ground destination was probably at the center of that other circle.
 
Suppose some nutty pilot actually did decide to hurl his GA soda can in the general direction of the POTUS.

If he took off nearby and kept low as to avoid radar coverage, would they really have time to detect, dispatch the fighters, intercept & actually give a kill order before it was too late? Seems doubtful to me. Especially doubtful that anyone would actually give the order to shoot that fast.

Maybe they'd have time to move the president to somewhere safe? In some circumstances maybe? I dunno.... kinda seems like an exercise in futility.
 
dans2992 said:
The POTUS's ground destination was probably at the center of that other circle.
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Negative, the other circle is over corn fields and farmland, just to cover our little podunk GA airport. The POTUS usually travels into the city to speak to a big crowd at the presidential library downtown which is covered by the original circle. :(
 
We do it all the time in the DC area. Just file, get your code before takeoff (Ground/Clearance, RCO, or telephone to ATC), launch, and stay in touch with ATC. It's not that big a deal as long as you obey the operating rules in the NOTAM.
 
Just one more bonus to living in the republic of Texas.

y'all.
 
Time to take a stand against our loss of freedom?
100+ GA aircraft demonstrating peacefully, exercising their right to lawful assembly by flying in a well coordinated & safe pattern through the edge of a potus tfr for hours some weekend, followed by planned interviews - our GA representatives with national news media following prearranged talking points to bring attention to what has been taken from us.
Just a silly dream of mine. Critics, have at it.
 
BigBadLou said:
Like us aging white guys with little 172's, Cherokees and RVs wear towels and yell "halalalala". Secret Service sometimes surprises me.
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Every single Presidential assassination to date was performed by a white guy. The two people who managed to wound (but failed to kill) a President in an assassination attempt were white guys too.

Simple racial profiling. :D
 
tiger said:
Every single Presidential assassination to date was performed by a white guy. The two people who managed to wound (but failed to kill) a President in an assassination attempt were white guys too.

Simple racial profiling. :D
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Squeaky Fromme? did she wound Reagan? Can't remember, it's been too long, but she did take a try at it I know that.
 
docmirror said:
Squeaky Fromme? did she wound Reagan?
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That was John Hinckley (white male). Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme (white female) tried to shoot Gerry Ford but with four in the clip and nothing "up the spout" didn't get a round off.
 
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There were two attempts on Ford, both by women, within a month of each other. They were not pilots as far as I know. :)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Time to take a stand against our loss of freedom?
100+ GA aircraft demonstrating peacefully, exercising their right to lawful assembly by flying in a well coordinated & safe pattern through the edge of a potus tfr for hours some weekend, followed by planned interviews - our GA representatives with national news media following prearranged talking points to bring attention to what has been taken from us.
Just a silly dream of mine. Critics, have at it.
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#PilotLivesMatter :dunno: :lol:

Though I'm not sure you'll find much worth looting at the local walmart that'll benefit the plane...
 
AcroGimp said:
Ran into this on a trip to Vegas in November, Dear Leader decided he needed to fund raise in Vegas same weekend my Wife and I went for our anniversary - boom, pop-up TFR with like 2 days notice.

File IFR and still be prepared for amended clearances as you get closer - VFR flight plan is supposed to be OK but I didn't want to risk it, still ended up with 3 amended clearances on the way (starting when we crossed over PSP), YMMV.

'Gimp
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Well, all of the airports were in the 10nm ring . . .so LAS is off limits to GA without the gateway airport or TSA plan - how'd you get in? Did the TFR end?

There is NO WAY Obama would ever be in Las Vegas after about noon on Friday - if they can't fly the high rollers in for the weekend - there'd be hell to pay politically.
 
Are you saying that there are uber wealthy, politically powerful high rollers who work M-F and go to Vegas on the weekends?

who'da thought? :rolleyes:
 
I don't know that he has ever stopped in OK. Can't think of a reason he would want to. Nothing special to see, and he didn't carry one single county in either election. Sucks for y'all.
 
cowman said:
Suppose some nutty pilot actually did decide to hurl his GA soda can in the general direction of the POTUS.

If he took off nearby and kept low as to avoid radar coverage, would they really have time to detect, dispatch the fighters, intercept & actually give a kill order before it was too late? Seems doubtful to me. Especially doubtful that anyone would actually give the order to shoot that fast.

Maybe they'd have time to move the president to somewhere safe? In some circumstances maybe? I dunno.... kinda seems like an exercise in futility.
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Why would anyone waste a aircraft on his worthless butt.
 
When he is in the L.A. area my airport is 4 miles or so out of the ring. The outer ring stops 4 or so miles from 26. Damn ATC makes us take off 26 and land 08 for som stupid reason. So, we get to hang out over the Saticoy bridge with a dozen of my GA friends until we are called in. One day I was flying a friend, a WWII vet with a distinguished flying cross and told him why we had to fly circles. I can tell you for the next 5 minuets of hearing him rant I knew exactly what he thought of the POTUS.
 
James331 said:
Why would anyone waste a aircraft on his worthless butt.
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Let's keep it out of the spinzone.

Ron Levy said:
We do it all the time in the DC area. Just file, get your code before takeoff (Ground/Clearance, RCO, or telephone to ATC), launch, and stay in touch with ATC. It's not that big a deal as long as you obey the operating rules in the NOTAM.
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Yes, that works but only in the outer ring. The core ring prohibits all unscheduled flights. At least around here. I will have to check next time we have a TFR around here.
 
I hear they jam cellular and GPS frequencies in the vicinity of the POTUS. Is there any truth to this?
 
cowman said:
Suppose some nutty pilot actually did decide to hurl his GA soda can in the general direction of the POTUS.

If he took off nearby and kept low as to avoid radar coverage, would they really have time to detect, dispatch the fighters, intercept & actually give a kill order before it was too late? Seems doubtful to me. Especially doubtful that anyone would actually give the order to shoot that fast.

Maybe they'd have time to move the president to somewhere safe? In some circumstances maybe? I dunno.... kinda seems like an exercise in futility.
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Kabuki theater
 
dans2992 said:
I hear they jam cellular and GPS frequencies in the vicinity of the POTUS. Is there any truth to this?
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They used to...at least cell phones anyway. We work a lot on presidential visits and back in GW days as soon as the big cheese took the stage...hmmm, zero bars on your cell phone. That was back when a cell phone was only useful to make a voice call.

Now that phones are mobile computers with data connectivity...you would hear about it from the media if they jammed service in this day and age. They can control what the traveling press core reports on but there is enough local and independent media at these events as well that are just looking for an angle to make the principal look bad (that is true on BOTH sides of the aisles).

SS and LEO relies just as much on GPS as we do...so negative on that rumor.
 
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dans2992 said:
I hear they jam cellular and GPS frequencies in the vicinity of the POTUS. Is there any truth to this?
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Never heard that. But it would make sense for Secret Service to be equipped to jam, if the need arose.

OTOH, Secret Service can't even be counted on to respond when somebody storms the White House fence and rushes to the building. So maybe I am just fantasizing that they could awake from their stupor of inaction and actually do something like jam gps when there is a threat.
 
NoHeat said:
So maybe I am just fantasizing that they could awake from their stupor of inaction and actually do something like jam gps when there is a threat.
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There is Presidential Detail, Field Agents and Uniform Division (UD is who failed at the WH). That statement is like comparing the quarterback to the chain gang!

Now party in Cartagena...that is what the Detail knows how to do!
 
Okay, so Secret Service has the uniformed stupor guys who sit in their car using the phone instead of chasing would-be assassins, and it has the plain-clothes johns who travel the world looking for prostitutes. Which of these will be ready to identify a threat that requires jamming gps, and taking timely action?
 
NoHeat said:
OTOH, Secret Service can't even be counted on to respond when somebody storms the White House fence and rushes to the building.
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they need a bad ass president with a rocket launcher to motivate and encourage them. :lol:

Whitehouse-Down-Trailer-8-010.jpg
 
dans2992 said:
I hear they jam cellular and GPS frequencies in the vicinity of the POTUS. Is there any truth to this?
Click to expand...

Not to my knowledge. We had a TFR a few years back that was centered on the Route 28 - Sterling BLVD intersection. I thought that was a bit odd as we that pretty much was still smack dab in the middle of the SFRZ (think this was when it was still in the mouse -ear configuration). Certainly anybody in the inner circle would be in IAD's sector of the class B.

Turns out the position of the TFR was off from the visit. W was actually visiting the building next to my office (some campaign contributor or something). They made us move all our cars out of OUR parking lot on that side of the building except one of our guys left his in the lot when he went out of town. They were all over that with bomb sniffing dogs and stuff. One of my employees had a nice photo she took out her office window of W being shuffled in the back door of the other building.

Jamming GPS would certainly have seriously messed up operations at IAD which pretty much go right over my building. I've also been right at ground zero in a couple of TFRs and haven't noticed my iPhone GPS not working right.
 
It would be quite trivial to send in a pre-programmed GPS guided drone with a nasty surprise.

I'm wondering if the bad guys are too stupid to do this, or if we have some kind of plan for it. Doesn't sound like it.
 
comanchepilot said:
you can operate inside the 10/30 ring IFR no problem - or file a VFR flight and use it while on a FF code.

But no flight training, model rockets, model airplanes, etc etc etc in the 10mile ring.

Its all spelled out. I try to go fly when the guy is here just to give the USSS something to look at. The airport is nice and quiet and you are usually the only traffic . . .
Click to expand...

This is incorrect....GA can never go in the 10nm ring. Scheduled air carrier, cargo, or approved medevac flights only.
 
I believe GA can if you land at another designated airport and go through the TSA body cavity search....
 
dans2992 said:
It would be quite trivial to send in a pre-programmed GPS guided drone with a nasty surprise.

I'm wondering if the bad guys are too stupid to do this, or if we have some kind of plan for it. Doesn't sound like it.
Click to expand...

Of course, you don't even need GPS for that.
 
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