3 turns to exit the pattern?

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brianrtw

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brianrtw
The airplane flying handbook and all other references say to exit the traffic pattern after takeoff fly straight out or 45 degrees.

What if you can't do that? For example, say you're departing Southbound from runway 26 at REI (see below). I've been told you can make 3 right turns and basically fly a climbing right base South. But I don't see any guidelines as to this.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=34.066973411899255,-117.11564381150363&chart=114&zoom=2
 
You could do that, or just turn south. Beware of inbounds to the pattern though. That airport different than most, so you adjust.
 
Ask for transit thru Class Delta airspace while on the ground (Poor radio reception? By phone?)? Heck, can you ask them to set up flight following for you for that matter?

Otherwise, depart the pattern where ever you reach TPA, keep climbing, then turn south (announce intentions, no different than overflying a field by 500 or 1000 ft).
 
Self announce and do what you want. The recommendations are just that, recommendations. They are not intended to tie your hands when local conditions are counter to their use.
 
Don't get too caught up in what some handbook says, just use common sense.
 
dmspilot said:
There is Class D straight out. Hence the question.
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Yeah, but its almost a mile from the departure end of the runway. You should be within 300' of the pattern altitude by about 1/2 mile beyond the departure end. So, you can do it and still avoid the Class D. I suspect thats part of the reason why the class D is the shape it is anyway.
 
It's pretty flat there. Can you call KSBD from the ground and request the transition before takeoff?
 
brianrtw said:
The airplane flying handbook and all other references say to exit the traffic pattern after takeoff fly straight out or 45 degrees.

What if you can't do that? For example, say you're departing Southbound from runway 26 at REI (see below). I've been told you can make 3 right turns and basically fly a climbing right base South. But I don't see any guidelines as to this.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=34.066973411899255,-117.11564381150363&chart=114&zoom=2
Click to expand...
Runway 26 is right traffic. So all you've heard is a very common practice, and apparently a local procedure at Redlands, of climbing within the traffic pattern to an altitude which will get you on your way without interfering with other traffic.

While the traffic pattern direction rules for landing are based in regulation, the procedures for nontowered departure are "best practice" guidance. It's sometimes hard to find the line where it becomes more or less important to follow, but that's what pilot judgment is all about. In this case, with the location of SBD and it's departure path, I'm not surprised by the recommendation. As others said, nothing wrong with a takeoff and a left turn southbound before reaching the Delta airspace either, although you'd want to be careful during the climb to altitude.
 
wilkersk said:
Yeah, but its almost a mile from the departure end of the runway. You should be within 300' of the pattern altitude by about 1/2 mile beyond the departure end. So, you can do it and still avoid the Class D. I suspect thats part of the reason why the class D is the shape it is anyway.
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Similar situation at KFTG in the Denver area. Now towered but used to be a very busy nontowered. Takeoff from runway 26 puts into the direction of the Class B surface area. There is (or at least used to be) a N-S road with a house The typical procedure there is to take off and turn left before the house.
 
In addition to the Noise Abatement Procedure, is there any type of local "Letter of Agreement" between SBD and REI? (Or maybe even just a "handshake" agreement?)

This is similar to the situation at one of my local airports, HSD. https://skyvector.com/?ll=35.60185775838829,-97.70617675271576&chart=301&zoom=2&fpl=4036N09850W GR

HSD runway 18 is right traffic. Departing from runway 18 puts you into the PWA Class D about 0.5 nm past the departure end. Often, especially in the summer, you are only a few hundred feet AGL at this point (especially in the flight school's Cherokee 140's). As a result, practically everybody* departing 18 penetrates the Class D on every lap around the pattern. It's unavoidable in many airplanes. On a busy day, there will be hundreds of penetrations of the Class D, all day long. The former chief instructor at the flight school there called up the PWA tower and got a response of "we know it happens all day long, and as long you eventually turn out to the west, we just don't care".

* Not me, of course. I mean everybody else...
 
midlifeflyer said:
Similar situation at KFTG in the Denver area. Now towered but used to be a very busy nontowered. Takeoff from runway 26 puts into the direction of the Class B surface area. There is (or at least used to be) a N-S road with a house The typical procedure there is to take off and turn left before the house.
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Always turn before Imboden Rd when using 26 at FTG...or talk to the man for busting Bravo.

In practice I’ve seen more people have a problem on the north side of the delta since the landmarks aren’t so apparent. I just stay over or south of the first farmhouse north of the field so never a problem.
 
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Clark1961 said:
Always turn before Imboden Rd when using 26 at FTG...or talk to the man for busting Bravo.

In practice I’ve seen more people have a problem on the north side of the Bravo since the landmarks aren’t so apparent. I just stay over or south of the first farmhouse north of the field so never a problem.
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That's the road! And inside Imboden when landing 8. And the north side issue.

When I was checking out in a Debonair, we went to FTG for some landings. It was already towered and there was another airplane also doing pattern work. On their second circuit, they crossed Imboden and got a warning from the Tower. On the next circuit, they again crossed Imboden and got a sterner warning about busting the Class B surface area. Deciding enough was enough, the pilot wisely decided to land and taxi back to parking- without waiting for taxi instructions. Taxiing merrily along on Alpha, the "take down this number..." transmission came. My instructor turned to me and said, "he might be calling you tomorrow."
 
Always a good idea to Google the airport's website ahead of time and make notes on their preferred arrival/departure procedures. Big Bear, for instance, is very non-standard...the website has animated diagrams of pattern entry, etc.
 
You would not typically want to make an opposite-direction crosswind, but consider that since one pattern is left and the other is right (both on the north side of the airport), you could take off and turn south whenever you wanted and no traffic should be there.
 
RussR said:
In addition to the Noise Abatement Procedure, is there any type of local "Letter of Agreement" between SBD and REI? (Or maybe even just a "handshake" agreement?).........
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I don't know. The Noise Abatement Procedure kind of implies it, maybe. Orange Avenue is inside SBD's Delta but only by 1/2 a mile. I didn't find any other documents where I found that, like the 'pattern maps' you find at a lot of Airports websites.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Always a good idea to Google the airport's website ahead of time and make notes on their preferred arrival/departure procedures. Big Bear, for instance, is very non-standard...the website has animated diagrams of pattern entry, etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Thats a good one. Ya got no excuses for getting disoriented there.
 
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights made an airplane.
 
Thanks a lot guys for all your help! When I did my solo cross country I did perform 3 right turns when departing Runway 26 for the south. Climbing at Vy I was pretty well above pattern altitude when crossing the runway centerline, so I shouldn't have been in anyone's way. With that said, I announced my intentions on CTAF.

To me it seems the problem with calling SBD right after takeoff is that you're so close. What happens if the controller is busy and you can't get a word in for a while? As a new pilot I'd rather focus my attention on flying during the climb-out than deal with comms right then if I can help it.
 
brianrtw said:
To me it seems the problem with calling SBD right after takeoff is that you're so close. What happens if the controller is busy and you can't get a word in for a while? As a new pilot I'd rather focus my attention on flying during the climb-out than deal with comms right then if I can help it.
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I feel that way as an "old pilot" too. "Ill just call them," whether from the ground or in the air, sounds like a good solution, but it tends to be very situational.
 
Common practice applies at most airports, then some, like the one in question, has their own rules. Local rules apply first, then common practice. Most runways are left pattern, but some have local rules changing certain ones to right pattern.
 
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