204 knots

[Ted]

You and I both know that people love to convince themselves of this type of bull**** because they wanna save money and feel good about it. Like running an O-320 a zillion hours passed TBO. It may be legal on paper but stupid in practice.

If done properly and done on a good core that's taken good care of, the O-320 running well past TBO isn't necessarily that dumb. There are a lot of variables and it can be difficult to identify that line in many cases.

Now overtorqueing aircraft parts, that is just dumb no matter how you slice it.

 

[Bill]

That's a major problem with people who are used to working on Fords and Chevys. On cars, the bolts are bigger since weight is less of a concern, and can handle overtorquing. In aviation, things are what they need to be, and torque specs really matter.

Working on the cars or bikes I always seek out the proper torque values and use my torque wrenches. Unlike my dad who used to cuss that "damned cheap hardware" because he thought every nut, bolt , and screw should be able to be tightened as much as a 6'3" 235# guy could muster.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Why? Busch is a strong advocate of on-condition overhauls. Is he wrong?

I don't have a problem with on condition overhauls if a program is followed, such as oil analysis, regular oil and filter changes, compression checks and on going maintenance.

But the average AC owner takes "on condition" to mean "run it till it drops".

 

[bnt83]

If done properly and done on a good core that's taken good care of, the O-320 running well past TBO isn't necessarily that dumb. There are a lot of variables and it can be difficult to identify that line in many cases.

Now overtorqueing aircraft parts, that is just dumb no matter how you slice it.

I disagree to an extent. The leaky things will have fretted to a point it's junk. and there's no telling when the horribly corroded fasteners of a coastal based well beyond hourly and calendar TBO will fail.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I disagree to an extent. The leaky things will have fretted to a point it's junk.

No problem, just keep tightening the bolts!

 

[bnt83]

No problem, just keep tightening the bolts!

when the nuts shank out at least they will always be at the proper torque with a backup wrench

 

[skelrad]

You and I both know that people love to convince themselves of this type of bull**** because they wanna save money and feel good about it. Like running an O-320 a zillion hours passed TBO. It may be legal on paper but stupid in practice.

I'm new to this so forgive me for asking, but what's wrong with running an engine past TBO? If compression is good, borescope inspection is good, etc. why not continue to fly the engine until something actually needs addressing, regardless whether that's at TBO or 1000 hours past TBO? Why is that stupid?

 

[bbchien]

I've been extremely active in the online and airborne RV community for almost 19 years. I've done the Tech Counselor bit on quite a few airplanes. I have never heard of anyone attaching fairings with RTV. In particular, attaching these particular fairings with RTV seems like a poor choice.

Those fairings get knocked around every time the gear flexes and are also in the propwash where they get buffeted a fair amount. When one comes loose, it is gonna beat the hell out of the paint on your gear leg fairings and wheelpants and that's gonna cost you when you have to repaint it.

....bbbbbbut Kyle, he used a whole 10 oz tube! that oughta do ya!

 

[Jay Honeck]

I seem to remember the virtues of having an Experimental/HB airplane because you could x-acto the back off a voltage regulator and "fix" it.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61727&highlight=voltage+regulator

Then, shortly after, another story about an in flight electrical failure due to a voltage regulator.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62247

which is awesome because you call it "stealth mode"

then another one about buying a certified voltage regulator setup.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62247

And what sucks is that, in the end, it is likely I did not need the high-dollar Zefftronics voltage regulator I bought at OSH after all. We found a 10 amp fuse going from the master switch to the voltage regulator that was blown, killing power to the regulator.

Replace the fuse, and voila -- the amp meter dances back to life. The automotive regulator I accused of failing was likely just fine.

Now, the question is: What caused that 10 amp fuse to pop? Why is there only a 10 amp fuse on the hot wire going to the voltage regulator, when every other RV seems to have a 20 amp fuse on that circuit?

I'm still researching that one. Meanwhile, the system has been working fine.

I HATE electrical problems. I have had them on every plane I've owned, and they are always a PIA to diagnose and repair.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I've been extremely active in the online and airborne RV community for almost 19 years. I've done the Tech Counselor bit on quite a few airplanes. I have never heard of anyone attaching fairings with RTV. In particular, attaching these particular fairings with RTV seems like a poor choice.

Those fairings get knocked around every time the gear flexes and are also in the propwash where they get buffeted a fair amount. When one comes loose, it is gonna beat the hell out of the paint on your gear leg fairings and wheelpants and that's gonna cost you when you have to repaint it.

I suggest that you call Tom Berge, a guy who makes his living as an expert in all things RV, if you think your expertise trumps his. I didn't invent the procedure -- I'm only following it.

The only way those fairing are coming off is by choice -- and even then I may end up cutting them off in pieces, if it comes to that. You might try installing one before berating the technique.

 

[JHW]

On occasion those logs have been known to be, well, not accurate. (I really don't like using the word forged, but sometimes )

i have only run into one of those. I laid out what I wanted to do in the first 10 hours of flight and he objected that all those tests shouldn't be required because it was a known type. I replied that the testing produces the data and the data is as much a part of the plane as a wing. Short changing the data would be like skipping the rib stitching on the wings. He replied that he had indeed skipped the rib stitching and had just glued the fabric to the ribs. After he left the hangar I grabbed a knife and cut all the fabric off both wings. The guy had done a nice job with the woodwork, but what works on an ultralight (his background) doesn't work on a cubalike.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Wow. I just looked up the property stats of the Dow Corning RTV I used to attach those gear fairings.

That stuff has 2398 lb/ft of tear strength, and over 1000 psi of tensile strength!

Crap. It's now probably stronger than the thin fiberglass itself. I sure hope I never have to remove them...

 

[jesse]

Wow. I just looked up the property stats of the Dow Corning RTV I used to attach those gear fairings.

That stuff has 2398 lb/ft of tear strength, and over 1000 psi of tensile strength!

Crap. It's now probably stronger than the thin fiberglass itself. I sure hope I never have to remove them...

Which stuff in particular did you use?

 

[RotorAndWing]

i have only run into one of those. I laid out what I wanted to do in the first 10 hours of flight and he objected that all those tests shouldn't be required because it was a known type. I replied that the testing produces the data and the data is as much a part of the plane as a wing. Short changing the data would be like skipping the rib stitching on the wings. He replied that he had indeed skipped the rib stitching and had just glued the fabric to the ribs. After he left the hangar I grabbed a knife and cut all the fabric off both wings. The guy had done a nice job with the woodwork, but what works on an ultralight (his background) doesn't work on a cubalike.

Yep, and Steve Whittman bought the farm in one of his designs for improper installed fabric.

 

[Geico266]

The only way those fairing are coming off is by choice -- and even then I may end up cutting them off in pieces, if it comes to that. You might try installing one before berating the technique.

Pretty sure you can just take some strong fishing line and tie knots in it and use it as a saw. Should be able to cut / saw through it.

I would have attached it with AN wood screws, but hey, you can do what you want.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The feeling I've gotten from fellow -8 owners is that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne.

One guy mentioned, over beers, that he hit 240 knots accidentally, while "dog fighting" someone. He about crapped himself when he saw it, and happily reports no ill effects.

And, of course, there are the guys bolting O-540s on, calling them "Super-8s", and flying them near and over Van's Vne all day long.

Not being former military, I'm not planning to dogfight people, but it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it.

Here's another enthusiast who found the limits of his RV.

"I've never heard of a wing coming off an RV aircraft," said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association, headquartered in Wisconsin. "It's a very good aircraft."

 

[Geico266]

Here's another enthusiast who found the limits of his RV.

"I've never heard of a wing coming off an RV aircraft," said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association, headquartered in Wisconsin. "It's a very good aircraft."

I lost a buddy when the wings came after the spars broke (certified) due to corrosion. Does that count also?

All planes must be thouroghly inspected every year. Preferable, not by the same person.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I lost a buddy when the wings came after the spars broke (certified) due to corrosion. Does that count also?

In reply to this quote:

The feeling I've gotten from fellow -8 owners is that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne.

One guy mentioned, over beers, that he hit 240 knots accidentally, while "dog fighting" someone. He about crapped himself when he saw it, and happily reports no ill effects.

And, of course, there are the guys bolting O-540s on, calling them "Super-8s", and flying them near and over Van's Vne all day long.

Not being former military, I'm not planning to dogfight people, but it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it.

I posted this article as food for thought about exceeding limits and thinking you can get away with it. One may get away with it for awhile.

Did the previous owner of this guys RV have the same attitude? Did he routinely go out and blow by Vne because "it can take it"? Did the new owner find the breaking point unaware?

The article didn't mention anything about corrosion or previous inspections.

All planes must be thouroghly inspected every year. Preferable, not by the same person.

But I thought that was the beauty of EAB, someone could build, modify, repair and inspect their own airplane??

 

[Geico266]

In reply to this quote:



I posted this article as food for thought about exceeding limits and thinking you can get away with it. One may get away with it for awhile.

Did the previous owner of this guys RV have the same attitude? Did he routinely go out and blow by Vne because "it can take it"? Did the new owner find the breaking point unaware?

The article didn't mention anything about corrosion or previous inspections.



But I thought that was the beauty of EAB, someone could build, modify, repair and inspect their own airplane??

Not much going on this weekend?

It's Saturday, I'm going flying, in my homebuilt airplane.

Seriously, does POA stand for P ussys of America?

 

[bbchien]

Not much going on this weekend?

It's Saturday, I'm going flying, in my homebuilt airplane.

Seriously, does POA stand for P ussys of America?

No it doesn't. But certified type flyers receive DIRECTION (whether they like it or not) as to not being asinine. EAB flyers can be asinine all the want.

 

[Skylane81E]

Um, same location as the OPs glued on area. Nose gear fairing is again - Screws. I've only done three planes, found no glue anywhere. Maybe it was missing on the one's I did?

Nose fairing PN 5702002-3

Main fairing(sump cover) PN 5701050-9

Screws PN AN526C632R8 about 40 of them total.

<edited to correct screw PN, don't want to be caught out being wrong again>

The fairing on the LEG, not at the fuselage is just glued on

 

[Ted]

Working on the cars or bikes I always seek out the proper torque values and use my torque wrenches. Unlike my dad who used to cuss that "damned cheap hardware" because he thought every nut, bolt , and screw should be able to be tightened as much as a 6'3" 235# guy could muster.

I do the same, especially when dealing with things like engine components. I'll be putting new rod and main bearings in my car in a couple of weeks, I'll do it then for sure. But many people don't, and a lot of automotive hardware, especially brakes, etc., is strong enough to take it.

Silly car, not even 170k and it needs bearings. But it is a Mitsubishi.

I disagree to an extent. The leaky things will have fretted to a point it's junk. and there's no telling when the horribly corroded fasteners of a coastal based well beyond hourly and calendar TBO will fail.

That is true, but we do have means of detecting when an engine seems to be making metal. To look strictly at hours/years ignores the reality that a 2 year engine can be corroded badly enough to need overhaul (seen that) and that a 40 year engine can be fine.

Running it till it drops makes no sense. In the case of the 310, our double engine overhaul was 400 hours and 5 years past TBO. Oil pressure dropped a hair, left engine was puking oil out the breather, and the timing was good. No metal being made. Only non-reusable parts on the normal major list were the cams.

These engines I'm hoping to get to 3,000 hours, but will change them when it makes sense and they say it's time.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Seriously, does POA stand for P ussys of America?

Post of the year, there.

 

[Geico266]

No it doesn't. But certified type flyers receive DIRECTION (whether they like it or not) as to not being asinine. EAB flyers can be asinine all the want.

So due experimentals.

Experimentals recieve SB's from the kit manufacturers on specific issues on the airframe. Even if you bought the plane from a builder or another owner. You can register with Vans and they send them to you ( and the parts are usually free, yes, I said free ) or you can look up the SB's on the internet and see if the plane you are looking at has had the SB's completed. If not you can negotiate a better price...... Just like certifieds.

Only asinine if they ignore the SB's or AD's.

 

[Jay Honeck]

No it doesn't. But certified type flyers receive DIRECTION (whether they like it or not) as to not being asinine. EAB flyers can be asinine all the want.

You know, it's just one man's opinion, but perhaps an aviation doctor who posts (apparently) with his own name shouldn't be so liberally and regularly slandering the ONLY healthy and growing segment of general aviation?

The government "direction" you so love has contributed to the demise of GA in my adult lifetime. From your posts I know you believe that regulations are "for the children", but many of us look at your condescending attitude toward EAB, and conclude that it is this type of over-bearing nannyism that is the problem, not the solution.

It's all about freedom, doc. Take it away, and make yourself "safer". Follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion, and you've got Europe, with GA regulated out of existence.

Allow freedom to flourish, and you've got EAB -- a thriving, growing, exciting world of aviation. It's really that simple.

 

[Neal Howard]

Here's another enthusiast who found the limits of his RV.

"I've never heard of a wing coming off an RV aircraft," said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association, headquartered in Wisconsin. "It's a very good aircraft."

That was not a regular Vans RV-6. It was an Art Chard designed RV6-like airplane with a different wing spar structure than a standard Van's RV-6 has. Even though it looks (or rather looked) a lot like an RV-6 on the outside, it was custom built, and not from a normal Vans RV-6 kit (See http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=720835&postcount=16 for proof). When the full NTSB report comes out, we'll know what really happened there. The Chard aircraft is considered to be the predecessor to the RV-6, as he had at least 2 examples flying before Van finalized the design of the RV-6, which was heavily influenced by Chard's aircraft.

Wings have certainly come off some RVs before... the factory RV-8 demonstrator is the most famous occurrence. Several RV-3's with the original spar design have had their wings pulled off in flight too. A couple of folks have pulled the tail off RVs as well, but when you limit the scope to "real" RV-4 and RV-6 models which have the seriously overdesigned and overbuilt wing spar and center section structures with dozens of bolts holding that structure together... then it's true, nobody has ever pulled the wings off of one of those.... the tail comes off first, as a fellow in Australia found out the hard way.

 

[RotorAndWing]

That was not a regular Vans RV-6. It was an Art Chard designed RV6-like airplane with a different wing spar structure than a standard Van's RV-6 has. Even though it looks (or rather looked) a lot like an RV-6 on the outside, it was custom built, and not from a normal Vans RV-6 kit (See http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=720835&postcount=16 for proof). When the full NTSB report comes out, we'll know what really happened there. The Chard aircraft is considered to be the predecessor to the RV-6, as he had at least 2 examples flying before Van finalized the design of the RV-6, which was heavily influenced by Chard's aircraft.

Wings have certainly come off some RVs before... the factory RV-8 demonstrator is the most famous occurrence. Several RV-3's with the original spar design have had their wings pulled off in flight too. A couple of folks have pulled the tail off RVs as well, but when you limit the scope to "real" RV-4 and RV-6 models which have the seriously overdesigned and overbuilt wing spar and center section structures with dozens of bolts holding that structure together... then it's true, nobody has ever pulled the wings off of one of those.... the tail comes off first, as a fellow in Australia found out the hard way.

Thanks for the explanation.


But again, for someone to extoll the virtues of flying past Vne and saying "that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne" or "it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it" is being absolutely foolish and once again demonstrating their immature knowledge of aerodynamics.

 

[Neal Howard]

But again, for someone to extoll the virtues of flying past Vne and saying "that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne" or "it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it" is being absolutely foolish and once again demonstrating their immature knowledge of aerodynamics.

This report, which I posted earlier in this thread, punctuates that topic very soberly... http://www.vansairforce.net/safety/G-GNDY.pdf

 

[Jay Honeck]

But again, for someone to extoll the virtues of flying past Vne and saying "that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne" or "it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it" is being absolutely foolish and once again demonstrating their immature knowledge of aerodynamics.

No one ever extolled the virtues of flying past Vne, because there are none.

Mentioning that it CAN be done is a far cry from extolling the virtues of doing it, and does not imply that it should be done.

 

[Jay Honeck]

This report, which I posted earlier in this thread, punctuates that topic very soberly... http://www.vansairforce.net/safety/G-GNDY.pdf

What a sad tale. Low-time pilot + 234 knots + doing aerobatics = bad, bad, bad results.

It's interesting that Van's "theoretically" flutter tested the vertical stabilizer to 300 knots. I wonder how they do that? Wind tunnel?

 

[kyleb]

What a sad tale. Low-time pilot + 234 knots + doing aerobatics = bad, bad, bad results.

It's interesting that Van's "theoretically" flutter tested the vertical stabilizer to 300 knots. I wonder how they do that? Wind tunnel?

Computer simulation. There are engineers whose entire career is dedicated to flutter analysis. My college girlfriend's dad did that for years and years for Lockheed GA.

 

[cowtowner]

For those of you afraid that Jay's use of RTV is going to cause those light little things from causing WWIII, you might realize that adhesives have made great strides the last 30 years.

We use adhesives in the construction industry that literally hold the structural steel to CMU block. If those fail, the roof fails. And we are talking about thousands of pounds, not 8 oz fiberglass.

 

[RotorAndWing]

No one ever extolled the virtues of flying past Vne, because there are none.

Mentioning that it CAN be done is a far cry from extolling the virtues of doing it, and does not imply that it should be done.

The feeling I've gotten from fellow -8 owners is that the airframe is capable of speeds well in excess of Van's very conservative 203 knot Vne.

One guy mentioned, over beers, that he hit 240 knots accidentally, while "dog fighting" someone. He about crapped himself when he saw it, and happily reports no ill effects.

And, of course, there are the guys bolting O-540s on, calling them "Super-8s", and flying them near and over Van's Vne all day long.

Not being former military, I'm not planning to dogfight people, but it DOES inspire confidence knowing that the airframe can take it.

inspire :
a : to influence, move, or guide by divine or supernatural inspiration
b : to exert an animating, enlivening, or exalting influence on <was particularly inspired by the Romanticists>
c : to spur on : impel, motivate

 

[bbchien]

You know, it's just one man's opinion, but perhaps an aviation doctor who posts (apparently) with his own name shouldn't be so liberally and regularly slandering the ONLY healthy and growing segment of general aviation?
Allow freedom to flourish, and you've got EAB -- a thriving, growing, exciting world of aviation. It's really that simple.

Don't use that "aviation doctor" c_ap on me Jay. Nothing Slanderous here, Jay, those are fighting words. You can go back and try to remove all evidence of your idiocy, but it's well spread in quotes well beyond what you can delete. And you will not be able to find that ANYTHING I have posted is untrue. That is a CHALLENGE.

So, just use the whole tube of RTV. Just adovcate Zoom climbs. Just keep doing stupid stuff and pretty soon you'll kill EAB further by contributing to it's already dismal safety record.

You were totally alone in your advocacy of zoom climbs. Even Geico266 and the other E-guys knew you were full of cr_p.

This about OPERATIONS and Maintainence and you've already displayed appalling ignorance of both, with the enthusiasm of a teen-ager.

Jay, I'm happy that you finally have a decently performing aircraft. Now you need to make the commitment to fly conservatively and make good decisions. Yes, you can disregard part 43 but you should read it because everything in there are the bitter lessons from others that you are doomed to repeat. You DO have a copy, don't you?

What's killing aviation is LIABILITY right now, and your hairbrainedness, archived here for everyone to see and lampooned by Ed Fred (very cleverly, I must say) can only contribute to injury and loss and that will drive light aviation into the ditch.

I with my suggestion that we don't put a neon sign on Ed Fred's satire of your behavior. It needs the neon light if only to remind you to have some humility and to immunize yourself from "it can't happen to me".

IT will.

My "Aviation doctor" interests are in the area of SAFETY, to which you don't seem to be contributing.

The quoted was one of the most asinine posts in the history of POA. In case you don't "get it", I am done suffering the fool. Just be good for Mary's sake.

"204 knots?" OH, And have you figured out what Vne is on your bird yet? What a sad tale.

And he thinks I love regulation, he's an idiot.
Jays_s.

 

[Henning]

I've found on the 310 it makes about 0 impact in speed. 4130 streamline tubing.



Or better yet, keep an eye on your TAS on your fancy digital Dynon or whatever, and just keep that below 230.

Your 310 steps don't retract? Mine do...

 

[Cap'n Jack]

For those of you afraid that Jay's use of RTV is going to cause those light little things from causing WWIII, you might realize that adhesives have made great strides the last 30 years.

We use adhesives in the construction industry that literally hold the structural steel to CMU block. If those fail, the roof fails. And we are talking about thousands of pounds, not 8 oz fiberglass.

No one is doubting that adhesives are greatly improved. They still should be used for the intended purposes and properly mixed and applied.

There's several types of RTV with different properties. I suspect, although I don't know for sure, that Jay used the RTV that cures by a "condensation" reaction, and typically smells like vinegar until cured. This can take some time to cure as humidity is needed as part of the cure and thick sections, or sections not exposed to air, may need over a week to cure. Even within this type of RTV, there's a wide range of properties including stiffness, temperature response, and others for various purposes.

The questions are whether RTV is appropriate for his purpose at all, and whether the correct RTV was used.

As I don't know what RTV was used, I really can't do more than guess whether or not an appropriate material was used and I won't speculate beyond that.

 

[wabower]

How would anybody know? Doesn't it only happen in flight?

Your 310 steps don't retract? Mine do...

 

[Henning]

How would anybody know? Doesn't it only happen in flight?

Lol, the nifty pocket they go into and watching them on a gear swing might be a clue.

 

[wabower]

I've always liked them but have been victimized by cable failures and other mechanical issues on various planes.

Lol, the nifty pocket they go into and watching them on a gear swing might be a clue.

 

[Goofy]

Don't use that "aviation doctor" c_ap on me Jay. Nothing Slanderous here, Jay, those are fighting words. You can go back and try to remove all evidence of your idiocy, but it's well spread in quotes well beyond what you can delete. And you will not be able to find that ANYTHING I have posted is untrue. That is a CHALLENGE.

So, just use the whole tube of RTV. Just adovcate Zoom climbs. Just keep doing stupid stuff and pretty soon you'll kill EAB further by contributing to it's already dismal safety record.

You were totally alone in your advocacy of zoom climbs. Even Geico266 and the other E-guys knew you were full of cr_p.

This about OPERATIONS and Maintainence and you've already displayed appalling ignorance of both, with the enthusiasm of a teen-ager.

Jay, I'm happy that you finally have a decently performing aircraft. Now you need to make the commitment to fly conservatively and make good decisions. Yes, you can disregard part 43 but you should read it because everything in there are the bitter lessons from others that you are doomed to repeat. You DO have a copy, don't you?

What's killing aviation is LIABILITY right now, and your hairbrainedness, archived here for everyone to see and lampooned by Ed Fred (very cleverly, I must say) can only contribute to injury and loss and that will drive light aviation into the ditch.

I with my suggestion that we don't put a neon sign on Ed Fred's satire of your behavior. It needs the neon light if only to remind you to have some humility and to immunize yourself from "it can't happen to me".

IT will.

My "Aviation doctor" interests are in the area of SAFETY, to which you don't seem to be contributing.

The quoted was one of the most asinine posts in the history of POA. In case you don't "get it", I am done suffering the fool. Just be good for Mary's sake.

"204 knots?" OH, And have you figured out what Vne is on your bird yet? What a sad tale.

And he thinks I love regulation, he's an idiot.
Jays_s.

You'd think that alphabet in his signature would add up to some common sense and maybe a tad of courtesy.......oh well....no wonder he got kicked off the AOPA forum. Seems to be good when it comes to medical issues and has helped a lot of folks. But can be a real %hole when it comes to discussions like these. Wish he'd stick to where his opinion actually has value. I'm just waiting to find out, and prove if necessary, that he rats out those that disagree with him to his buddies at the FAA. Fortunately I have a relative in their IT group so we're keeping an eye on it. Sad when he could be a good guy, instead he just gets nasty when he gets bug up his butt and decides to insult people like Jay and several others. Truly sad....