1948 Cessna on Barnstormers

Tom-D said:
That's just a matter of opinion, Who would worry over the material condition of any aircraft they couldn't get a registration for?
Obtaining a registration for 3980V would require a lot of research, and I'd start by asking the seller why it wasn't registered in his name? Depending upon what he says, would determine what I'd do next.
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Oh lordy

If it has a good C of A I wouldn’t be too worried with getting the registration. Now all the other paperwork for the last 28 years I’d be worried about, I wouldn’t trust a single entry in those logs.

Also there is the whole substantial damage bit, frankly I’d rather worry about my paperwork having a issue than my aircraft or engine having issues.

I swear, you would post a link to a plane where half of it was burned to the ground and says “what’s wrong”, where you’d point out the registration and c of a was stored in the glove box vs. being clearly displayed lol
 
James331 said:
Oh lordy

If it has a good C of A I wouldn’t be too worried with getting the registration. Now all the other paperwork for the last 28 years I’d be worried about, I wouldn’t trust a single entry in those logs.

Also there is the whole substantial damage bit, frankly I’d rather worry about my paperwork having a issue than my aircraft or engine having issues.

I swear, you would post a link to a plane where half of it was burned to the ground and says “what’s wrong”, where you’d point out the registration and c of a was stored in the glove box vs. being clearly displayed lol
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big if,
 
giphy.gif


I’m out
 
Tom-D said:
I don't see that as pertaining, this aircraft isn't destroyed or scrapped.
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Did you read it are do you assume you already know everything? How to legally resurrect an airplane is described in that document. Know the rules and use them to your benefit. Or bark on the internet. Your choice. Now you can learn a little about what you’re barking about.
 
Stewartb said:
Did you read it are do you assume you already know everything? How to legally resurrect an airplane is described in that document. Know the rules and use them to your benefit. Or bark on the internet. Your choice. Now you can learn a little about what you’re barking about.
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Show me where the aircraft was declared destroyed, It was involved in an accident, way back in 199? then repaired, There are lots of aircraft in that category.
 
Tom-D said:
Why isn't there a registered owner? who is? It is a deregistered aircraft, why?
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If you notice in the "Name" line on the public registration info it states "Sale Reported." That's a legit FAA term when processing registrations. If no new registration paperwork had been filed the name of the previous owner would still be listed rather than Sale Reported.

10 to 1 if you contact the aircraft holder he has a signed blank Bill of Sale, or other conveyance, from the previous owner. As for the reason why dereg it states "expiration." Now if it would have stated exported, revoked, or something else under the "reason" line that may create an issue but not expiration. Plus it still lists an issued AWC. Any other questions on the registration could be answered during the Oak City review of the aircraft master registration file for liens, etc. which is rather detailed and not available online.
 
Tom-D said:
Show me where the aircraft was declared destroyed, It was involved in an accident, way back in 199? then repaired, There are lots of aircraft in that category.
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Yeesh! Go contact the seller, perform a pre-buy, look thru the books, etc, etc. Trying to decipher an aircraft from one ad and whatever else online is a losing proposition. Maybe it is a deal, maybe not.
 
Bell206 said:
If you notice in the "Name" line on the public registration info it states "Sale Reported." That's a legit FAA term when processing registrations.
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There were 2,567 "Sale Reported" entries in the FAA registration database at the end of 2016, and 3,278 at the end of 2017.

1,781 aircraft on the 2016 listing had not been updated in 2017 (e.g., was listed as "Sale Reported" in both lists). These aircraft also had the same registration address.

Ron Wanttaja
 
The question remains,, WHEN was that sale reported?
The seller way back when, would have reported the sale, but the buyer never applied for registration, so the gap caused the aircraft to never be re-registered, and now is deregistered by the FAA, due to inactivity.

That is exactly what happened with 34V and it took me over a year to trace the previous owners to get bills of sales to close the loop in the ownership.

Want to go thru that? plan on not flying the aircraft until you can show AROW.
 
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To answer all the registration questions you'd have to call the person at Aircraft registration at OKC and have them research it.
This aircraft may have a bunch of unregistered owners to account for. Go there if you like.
 
wanttaja said:
There were 2,567 "Sale Reported" entries in the FAA registration database at the end of 2016, and 3,278 at the end of 2017.
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And in 2010 those numbers were north of 14,000. "Sale Reported" is used to indicate the last registered owner notified/returned his registration certificate to Oak City. There is a 21 day regulatory requirement to do this when aircraft ownership is transferred. You'd be surprised how many people are not aware of this. In some cases these aircraft have been parted out and in others they're sitting around on Barnstormers. There's no penalty not to register other than lose that specific number nor is there no penalty to notify Oak City of a sale. This was one of the reasons that drove the renewal requirements.
 
JAWS said:
Yeesh! Go contact the seller,
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Yep, that's the first step.

And when they say, I bought it from a friend who got it from his dad's estate. and I never got any paper work with it.

The executor of the estate may have reported the sale, and how would you find them.
 
Tom-D said:
The question remains,, WHEN was that sale reported.
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It's listed on the aircraft master registration form. When complying with a lien check this info can be noted also if its a concern.
Tom-D said:
This aircraft may have a bunch of unregistered owners to account for. Go there if you like.
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Or call Keith in TN. There's no rule that he must register the 170. He may have a security conveyance that gave him ownership. I don't see the mystery.
 
Bell206 said:
And in 2010 those numbers were north of 14,000. "Sale Reported" is used to indicate the last registered owner notified/returned his registration certificate to Oak City. There is a 21 day regulatory requirement to do this when aircraft ownership is transferred. You'd be surprised how many people are not aware of this. In some cases these aircraft have been parted out and in others they're sitting around on Barnstormers. There's no penalty not to register other than lose that specific number nor is there no penalty to notify Oak City of a sale. This was one of the reasons that drove the renewal requirements.
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and to fix the title of those, may take years, and the local court.
 
Bell206 said:
It's listed on the aircraft master registration form. When complying with a lien check this info can be noted also if its a concern.

Or call Keith in TN. There's no rule that he must register the 170. He may have a security conveyance that gave him ownership. I don't see the mystery.
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This is true, and may simply not be worth the trouble.
 
What happens when, the last registered owner is dead, the guy who they sold it to is dead? and Keith doesn't really have legal title?
 
Tom-D said:
What happens when, the last registered owner is dead, the guy who they sold it to is dead? and Keith doesn't really have legal title?
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Kind of stretching it a bit... Well, first I say Keith was foolish to get himself into this position and 2nd he wouldn't be one to get my money. However, looking at his business I'd say he not that foolish and he has the necessary documents. And it doen't have to be an FAA Bill of Sale. There are a dozen or more ways to prove ownership. One call or email would solve this. Why not send him an email?

But even if the 170 didn't have any ownership documents there are methods to pursue. Aircraft are considered tangible personal property and the FAA is not in the owner certification business. Unfortunately, it usually requires an attorney to get to that end because most of the relevant information is not available to the public. But it's there. If not there, there are ways (at the State level) to have that property declared abandoned and to pursue owner rights. All depends what it's worth to you.
 
You are exactly right there are other ways.

this could be easy, and the seller is holding all the documentation needed, but then again he may not.
It is the buyers responsibility to know what they are getting into.
 
Tom-D said:
You are exactly right there are other ways.

this could be easy, and the seller is holding all the documentation needed, but then again he may not.
It is the buyers responsibility to know what they are getting into.
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WHEW! Glad that is over.
 
Bell206 said:
And in 2010 those numbers were north of 14,000.
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19,743 in my December 2010 FAA registry. And about 16,000 of them were eventually deregistered as part of the FAA's re-registration policy change.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
And about 16,000 of them were eventually deregistered
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Wait til they try to clean up the drone registrations. They passed the 1M mark this year. Or if any of those flying cars actually hit production: no current operating or registration rules with some falling under the definition of an ultralight. Fun times ahead.
 
So it appears that the OP is neither the seller nor the buyer or anyone with a vested interest in this plane or a person with any knowledge at all of the actual current status of the aircraft but instead is a troll playing some silly what if game without the ability to answer what he thought was a simple rhetorical question. So typical.
 
Tom-D said:
What happens when, the last registered owner is dead, the guy who they sold it to is dead? and Keith doesn't really have legal title?
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These are questions for an attorney, and can only be answered once you know the facts. The title can be fixed, if there's a problem, and it will only cost time and money. If the airplane isn't junk, and the seller will drop the price, it might be worth it. OTOH, the seller might have all the paperwork and just never registered it.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So it appears that the OP is neither the seller nor the buyer or anyone with a vested interest in this plane or a person with any knowledge at all of the actual current status of the aircraft but instead is a troll playing some silly what if game without the ability to answer what he thought was a simple rhetorical question. So typical.
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And a lot of new buyers learned, even if you didn't like it.
 
Why not just throw your hands up and buy a cheap Arrow? (I'll sell you one.)
 
Deregistered by the previous owner after he ground looped it. He fixed it and never registered it. I have applied for it but the FAA is shut down because of the furlough. It should be registered any day. Aircraft don’t have titles so it’s just a matter of me getting the registration back. Last flown in 2011. It’s been run and compression tested 3 weeks ago. I have no desire to fly it for any reason until it’s out of annual. It’s in annual now.

On Dec 30, 2018, at 8:18 PM, noreply@barnstormers.com wrote:


Hi Keith Watts,
the following message from..... was sent through the
barnstormers.com web site in regard to the following listing..
https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_manager/listing.php?id=1431820
to reply to ...... simply reply to this email.
 
Tom-D said:
Deregistered by the previous owner after he ground looped it. He fixed it and never registered it. I have applied for it but the FAA is shut down because of the furlough. It should be registered any day. Aircraft don’t have titles so it’s just a matter of me getting the registration back. Last flown in 2011. It’s been run and compression tested 3 weeks ago. I have no desire to fly it for any reason until it’s out of annual. It’s in annual now.

On Dec 30, 2018, at 8:18 PM, noreply@barnstormers.com wrote:


Hi Keith Watts,
the following message from..... was sent through the
barnstormers.com web site in regard to the following listing..
https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_manager/listing.php?id=1431820
to reply to ...... simply reply to this email.
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So he didn’t mention when he crashed it after not sumping the tanks and ripped the landing gear off?

image.jpg
 
James331 said:
So he didn’t mention when he crashed it after not sumping the tanks and ripped the landing gear off?
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That was in 199?
Last flown in 2011, leads me to think. that is when it was ground looped
I've e-mailed with more questions, we'll see what he says.
 
Tom-D said:
Only when you know it all already.
There are members here that can learn.
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Not from misdirection and half accurate statements followed by backtracking. I gave up getting anything from these threads a while ago.
 
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