1948 Cessna on Barnstormers

Fresh prop strike eh?

Nasty panel, fresh paint over the chrome, not pulling up ADs, but lots of little flags on that plane as it stands, if I was in the market my offer would be well south of his asking price without even looking into that AD
 
James331 said:
Fresh prop strike eh?

Nasty panel, fresh paint over the chrome, not pulling up ADs, but lots of little flags on that plane as it stands, if I was in the market my offer would be well south of his asking price without even looking into that AD
Click to expand...
You are well known for you evaluation of aircraft.
material condition isn't the big issue on this one.
OBTW, cleaning and refinishing the instrument panel is about 10 minutes work.
There is only 1 recurring AD (the seat tracks)
 
Tom-D said:
You are well known for you evaluation of aircraft.
material condition isn't the big issue on this one.
OBTW, cleaning and refinishing the instrument panel is about 10 minutes work.
There is only 1 recurring AD (the seat tracks)
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Someone who can’t be bothered to fix the little cheap things, I wonder what the attitude was on bigger ticket items.

Also there is the whole likely prop strike and than not flying it after. I don’t mind a prop strike plane, but I don’t want to be the guy to be putting hours on it right after, especially if they didn’t OH the engine.
 
Paper work... what's wrong with the paper work?
 
Tom-D said:
Your imagination running wild again? Where did you see anything that would indicate that?
Click to expand...

Just reading between the lines Tom, 450TSMO, 0hrs prop 0 mags, I could be wrong, doubt it

Unless a another’s pilot/AP owned it... sounds like a abused plane

After a quick search, yuuuup

Off the add
“ IA owned last 28 years to me”

Off a NTSB search

“
------- FAA Accident/Incident 1 -------
Occurrence Date 1990-04-22 Aircraft Make CESSNA
Aircraft Model 170 Damage SUBSTANTIAL
Document Last Modified 2012-08-08
Narrative ENGINE QUIT EN ROUTE DUE TO WATER IN FUEL. AIRCRAFT SAT 3 MONTHS WITH LOW FUEL. NO WING TANK QUICK DRAINS.



------- NTBS Accident 1 -------
Event Date 1990-04-22 Aircraft Make CESSNA
Aircraft Model 170 Aircraft Serial Number 18299
Damage SUBS
Probably Cause THE PILOT/MECHANIC'S INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT INSPECTION OF THE AIRCRAFT FUEL SYSTEM.
Prelimenary Narrative
Final Narrative THE ENGINE QUIT AFTER TAKE OFF & A FORCED LANDING WAS MADE IN A FIELD. ONE MAIN GEAR COLLAPSED DURING LANDING ROLL ON THE ROUGH GROUND. OWNER OF THE ACFT WAS A COMM. PILOT/A&P/IA. HE SAID WATER WAS FOUND IN THE CARBURETOR AFTER THE ACCIDENT. HE ALSO SAID THE ACFT HAD SAT ABOUT 90 DAYS AFTER FUEL HAD BEEN PLACED IN THE TANKS. ON THE GROUND THE LOW POINT OF THE TANKS WOULD PREVENT WATER MIGRATING TO THE FUEL STRAINER. THREADED DRAIN PLUGS ARE IN THE TANKS WHICH THE PILOT INDICATED THAT HE DID NOT REMOVE BEFORE THE FLIGHT WAS ATTEMPTED.”

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20001212X22858&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA


2300hr CPL and AP/IA who can’t be bothered with the most basic stuff like sumping tanks, or cleaning up a panel, etc, god knows all the other little hidden gems waiting to be found. That thing is suspect as a mofo
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Just reading between the lines Tom, 450TSMO, 0hrs prop 0 mags, I could be wrong, doubt it

Unless a another’s pilot/AP owned it... sounds like a abused plane

After a quick search, yuuuup

Off the add
“ IA owned last 28 years to me”

Off a NTSB search

“
------- FAA Accident/Incident 1 -------
Occurrence Date 1990-04-22 Aircraft Make CESSNA
Aircraft Model 170 Damage SUBSTANTIAL
Document Last Modified 2012-08-08
Narrative ENGINE QUIT EN ROUTE DUE TO WATER IN FUEL. AIRCRAFT SAT 3 MONTHS WITH LOW FUEL. NO WING TANK QUICK DRAINS.



------- NTBS Accident 1 -------
Event Date 1990-04-22 Aircraft Make CESSNA
Aircraft Model 170 Aircraft Serial Number 18299
Damage SUBS
Probably Cause THE PILOT/MECHANIC'S INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT INSPECTION OF THE AIRCRAFT FUEL SYSTEM.
Prelimenary Narrative
Final Narrative THE ENGINE QUIT AFTER TAKE OFF & A FORCED LANDING WAS MADE IN A FIELD. ONE MAIN GEAR COLLAPSED DURING LANDING ROLL ON THE ROUGH GROUND. OWNER OF THE ACFT WAS A COMM. PILOT/A&P/IA. HE SAID WATER WAS FOUND IN THE CARBURETOR AFTER THE ACCIDENT. HE ALSO SAID THE ACFT HAD SAT ABOUT 90 DAYS AFTER FUEL HAD BEEN PLACED IN THE TANKS. ON THE GROUND THE LOW POINT OF THE TANKS WOULD PREVENT WATER MIGRATING TO THE FUEL STRAINER. THREADED DRAIN PLUGS ARE IN THE TANKS WHICH THE PILOT INDICATED THAT HE DID NOT REMOVE BEFORE THE FLIGHT WAS ATTEMPTED.”

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20001212X22858&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA


2300hr CPL and AP/IA who can’t be bothered with the most basic stuff like sumping tanks, or cleaning up a panel, etc, god knows all the other little hidden gems waiting to be found. That thing is suspect as a mofo
Click to expand...
How do you know the 450 hours wasn't put on after the accident ?

With out the logs you can't tell what was done or repaired. All these old aircraft have been on their backs and repaired.
this aircraft sat, a long time, parts that are mentioned as 0 time were most likely replaced to make the aircraft airworthy for this sale.
But you still haven't discovered the most important discrepancy.

OBTW the price is right for the market. Material condition wise.
 
Last edited:
What would be the most important question you should ask the seller.
 
Frankly unless he’s game to take about 10k off his price I could care less.

So he just overhauled the fixed pitch prop on his own hangerd plane because of calendar time?


Based on that NTSB and what’s in his add, as well as what’s NOT in his add, I trust the logs of that plane about as much as gas station sushi.
 
I'd want to know why it was deregistered. And whether the tail number is reserved. Id pretty much want an annual for the prebuy since it hasn't flown in years.
 
James331 said:
Frankly unless he’s game to take about 10k off his price I could care less.

So he just overhauled the fixed pitch prop on his own hangerd plane because of calendar time?


Based on that NTSB and what’s in his add, as well as what’s NOT in his add, I trust the logs of that plane about as much as gas station sushi.
Click to expand...
None of that is of any consequence material condition is not the problem.
You are lookin beyond the obvious.
Why isn't there a registered owner? who is? It is a deregistered aircraft, why?

My best guess is, the seller bought a project, never transferred the registration to his name. If you can't present a continuous title track you can never gain registration. If the last registered owner is dead and you can't get a bill of sale from him to the seller, yer screwed.
 
Lindberg said:
I'd want to know why it was deregistered. And whether the tail number is reserved. Id pretty much want an annual for the prebuy since it hasn't flown in years.
Click to expand...
Material condition is nothing, if you can't own it.

It was deregistered because the last registration ran out in 2013. I doubt the N is even available anymore.
 
Tom-D said:
Material condition is nothing, if you can't own it.
Click to expand...
That's why the reason it's deregistered is the first question. If it was totaled and has no data plate, it's parts. Otherwise, chain of title can be fixed.
 
The N is still assigned to this A/C.
 
Lindberg said:
That's why the reason it's deregistered is the first question. If it was totaled and has no data plate, it's parts. Otherwise, chain of title can be fixed.
Click to expand...
How do you know it doesn't have a data tag? they are not normally removed.
 
Lindberg said:
I'd want to know why it was deregistered. And whether the tail number is reserved. Id pretty much want an annual for the prebuy since it hasn't flown in years.
Click to expand...
How do you know it hasn't flown in years?
 
Tom-D said:
How do you know it hasn't flown in years?
Click to expand...
it's been out of annual since 2012. Deregistered in 2013. Might have been flown, but not legally. If the N number wasn't reserved it can be reassigned.
 
Tom-D said:
How do you know it doesn't have a data tag? they are not normally removed.
Click to expand...

The operative word in post 14, second sentence is IF.

That’s a conditional statement, not definitive.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
No he didn’t Tom. The word was IF. Legitimate comment, although you and I pretty much know why it isn’t currently registered.
Click to expand...
yeah I'll give him the "IF"

yeah we know, the present owner did not do his duty, and register it in his name .

It took me a year to gain 34V's title, and I got lucky.
 
I hope some one has learned by this thread, that the paper work is the most important home work you can do when buying any aircraft.

check the FAA Data base. Who is the last registered owner? is it the seller?

Get the CD, see what the FAA knows about the aircraft. Match the 337s on file with the what the seller has.

The material condition of the aircraft is just a matter of bringing the aircraft up to your standards.
but the paper work must be brought p to the FAA's standard.

Big difference.
 
Tom-D said:
Get the CD, see what the FAA knows about the aircraft. Match the 337s on file with the what the seller has.
Click to expand...
Why is this important?
Let's assume the FAA's CD doesn't have all the 337s that the owner does, or there is major alterations installed that there is no 337 submitted? who gets to do the 337 and return it to service?
 
Tom-D said:
None of that is of any consequence material condition is not the problem.
You are lookin beyond the obvious.
Why isn't there a registered owner? who is? It is a deregistered aircraft, why?

My best guess is, the seller bought a project, never transferred the registration to his name. If you can't present a continuous title track you can never gain registration. If the last registered owner is dead and you can't get a bill of sale from him to the seller, yer screwed.
Click to expand...

Forest through the trees, end of the day the paperwork won’t kill me, but his showdy maintenance might.

I’m sure his logs, with that zero time prop, never mention a prop strike, just removed and replaced prop, might leave major spaces between the lines lol

The laws of man can, and often are, broken with zero issue, the laws of physics and engineering tend to be less forgiving.

Plus based of his omissions on that add, the last 28 years of logs are questionable to say the least. Caveat emptor
 
James331 said:
Forest through the trees, end of the day the paperwork won’t kill me, but his showdy maintenance might.
Click to expand...
Why would you ever consider spending a dime on any aircraft with messed up ownership.
really got the cart before the horse.
 
Tom-D said:
Why would you ever consider spending a dime on any aircraft with messed up ownership.
really got the cart before the horse.
Click to expand...

Tom I can’t draw this with crayons for you, it ain’t the ownership dude, it’s the showdy owner
 
James331 said:
Tom I can’t draw this with crayons for you, it ain’t the ownership dude, it’s the showdy owner
Click to expand...
Showdy ownership is irrelevant, When you can't get title to it.
 
Tom-D said:
Showdy ownership is irrelevant, When you can't get title to it.
Click to expand...

I’ve never seen a plane crash because of paperwork.

Why are you taking showdy mx personally Tom?
 
James331 said:
I’ve never seen a plane crash because of paperwork.
Click to expand...
Simply because smart people won't fly any aircraft that doesn't have the proper paper work. "it's a AROW thing.
If you can't gain a proper registration how could you fly it.
If you can't fly it ? WTF all you could do it part it out. and in this case there's barely 10k in salvage.
 
Tom-D said:
Simply because smart people won't fly any aircraft that doesn't have the proper paper work. "it's a AROW thing.
If you can't gain a proper registration how could you fly it.
If you can't fly it ? WTF all you could do it part it out. and in this case there's barely 10k in salvage.
Click to expand...

Lol, right, because shady AP IA pilot’s plane logs are always all up to spec, just got to dust that pencil off ba ha ha ha
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Lol, right, because shady AP IA pilots plane log are always all up to spec, just got to dust that pencil off ba ha ha ha
Click to expand...
Material condition is what it is, It's all relitive. that can be fixed.if the title is messed it may take a year or more and a court case to gain ownership.
 
Tom-D said:
Material condition is what it is, It's all relitive. that can be fixed.if the title is messed it may take a year or more and a court case to gain ownership.
Click to expand...

Your priorities are all off dude lol
 
If it wasn’t registered the old N number stays linked to it for 5 or 6 years. After that it wouldn’t be hard to register as long as there’s an airworthiness certificate. If that’s gone? A DAR would do a conformity inspection and issue a new one if it proves worthy. It looks like a project to me. Maybe somebody’s dream project. Not mine.
 
James331 said:
Your priorities are all off dude lol
Click to expand...
That's just a matter of opinion, Who would worry over the material condition of any aircraft they couldn't get a registration for?
Obtaining a registration for 3980V would require a lot of research, and I'd start by asking the seller why it wasn't registered in his name? Depending upon what he says, would determine what I'd do next.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top