For example - the Amish are also underrepresented in aviation, as well as in auto repair, engineering, broadcasting, and the military. We don't seem to be doing anything to encourage them to enter those fields.
19 Year Old Woman Begins Attempt Of Solo Around The World Flight
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For example - the Amish are also underrepresented in aviation, as well as in auto repair, engineering, broadcasting, and the military. We don't seem to be doing anything to encourage them to enter those fields.
Sure, but those events are still only going to attract those that have some sort of interest to begin with. The local spa and salon can hold an open house too, but it doesn’t mean I’ll show up.
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Bro do you even lift
I'm just curious, how would your life be better, or how would the world be better, if there were more female pilots? if every pilot right now just instantaneously converted to women, what would change? just asking. would you wake up and say "today's a great day, all pilots are women"? would you not have traffic driving to work because all pilots were women? would all your veggies grow better in your garden? would lift over the wings be any different? WHAT specifically about more pilots being women is it that you would like? (I'm literally not trying to start anything, I just flat out do not understand)
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Sure, but those events are still only going to attract those that have some sort of interest to begin with. The local spa and salon can hold an open house too, but it doesn’t mean I’ll show up.
If the people working there are a bunch of Latinas I guarantee you would show up.
That’s a very true point!
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that this story looks bad on the surface. I, for one, am not in a position to judge who influenced whom, nor her level of ability to evaluate risk and assert pilot-in-command authority.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
All comments aside I think its awesome someone is flying around the world. I'd love to but I don't have anyone willing to shell out, and I don't have an extra, quarter million to five hundred thousand to finance it
I don't know. Historically, some people have disapproved of women becoming pilots. I doubt that this is the only reason. I think that has probably become less of a factor than it used to be, because there seem to be more women pilots than there used to be.
No. I didn’t.
What percentage of pies have whipped cream?
Kansas Flyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
Who cares.
All that matters is that a certificate or career in aviation is available to them if they choose to pursue it. At least in this country.
Daleandee
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Notice that you still described the Amish as being underrepresented in those fields. Some people here seem be to assuming that "underrepresented" refers only to situations that must be fixed. In reality, the term can be applied to a whole spectrum of situations that can range all the way from "not a problem" to "something that MUST be fixed."
My attitude toward women's underrepresentation in aviation is that it falls somewhere between those two extremes, and that as such, publicizing women's achievements in aviation is a reasonable thing to do. "Your mileage may vary."
Can I just mention that she hadn’t actually achieved anything yet when the publicizing began? That actually means something.
She’s actually made a tough crossing now, props for that are certainly due.
She’s actually made a tough crossing now, props for that are certainly due.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
What we need are more one eye’d purple trans-its flying GA around the word…..creating whirled peas.
It's also true that more people will show up than if those events weren't held. There's something to be said for making it easier for people to find out what opportunities are available to them.Sure, but those events are still only going to attract those that have some sort of interest to begin with. The local spa and salon can hold an open house too, but it doesn’t mean I’ll show up.
Me too!
My attitude is that women's "underrepresentation in aviation" is not a problem that must be fixed. I certainly welcome anyone, male or female, who wants to fly and I will encourage them. But I see no need for active recruitment of any particular gender or ethnic group. The sky is open to anyone who wants it.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
As soon as we start promoting one eye’d purples the the others begins feeling left out.
Yes, my life would be better.
Very very much better.
If you like, I can try to explain how exactly, but it might take some time. I like to compose my thoughts carefully when it comes to such things, because this is important to me.
Very important to me.
I appreciate that you're asking the question out of genuine curiosity. You're the first in a long time to not just say they know the answer.
I don't think that it has to be something that "must be fixed" in order to justify recognizing and publicizing women's achievements in aviation.
For the perspective of a brand-new lady pilot, you might want to read
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/why-one-and-not-the-other.133917/
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/why-one-and-not-the-other.133917/
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Bro do you even lift
eh, except I didn't really ask you lol. not that I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Here’s a statement that’s likely to be unpopular with some. Which is more damaging to young women that might be interested in STEM? The lack of a 19 year old circumnavigating woman or seeing all the women in their lives reading people and cosmo and not reading popular science and popular mechanics (or a brief history of time )
)
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
But that's a micro vs macro level answer. It would be the same as asking the question, would the world be better if out of all the homeless people, 1 was given a million dollars. On the whole, no, it wouldn't make a lick of difference on the macro level. But yeah, for an individual, it would. But as far as whether it changes the world, or makes millions of peoples lives better. No, it doesn't.
Maybe we need to quit hiring female teachers until the gender gap is closed there?
I have flown with some very competent female pilots, and shared ownership with about half a dozen. Only one of them were people that I came to distrust her skills, and the partnership voted her out. Half a century ago I flew with my first female CFII.
Really, we need to get this back to the progress of the pilot and plane. That is much more interesting that hassling gender issues.
Links to video of her landings and departures are especially good to see.
Any POA's going to be at KFFA when she arrives?
I have flown with some very competent female pilots, and shared ownership with about half a dozen. Only one of them were people that I came to distrust her skills, and the partnership voted her out. Half a century ago I flew with my first female CFII.
Really, we need to get this back to the progress of the pilot and plane. That is much more interesting that hassling gender issues.
Links to video of her landings and departures are especially good to see.
Any POA's going to be at KFFA when she arrives?
Tarheelpilot
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I think we are very close to parity between gender already. I’m sure there are women that want to fly and can’t. Just like there are men in the same situation. I don’t think gender is the reason. More so life situations or choice.
Lindberg
Final Approach
He equates a CFI crashing a plane with a child on board to a licensed pilot flying herself wherever TF she wants to go. Apples and blueberries. And he never gets around to explaining why this particular licensed pilot flying the long way from A back to A is in any more danger than another licensed pilot who only flies himself back and forth from A to B every weekend for a hamburger. She's a licensed pilot. She's flying a certified aircraft that she's licensed and qualified to fly under conditions she's licensed and equipped to fly in. But OMG it's a record attempt, so it's exactly like a CFI killing a 7-year-old in a thunderstorm! I wouldn't characterize that as too factual.
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Daleandee
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We disagree and I'm OK with that. Perhaps you're not but that's not on me ...
Lindberg
Final Approach
I also find it fascinating that the peanut gallery can simultaneously criticize this attempt as being both "So dangerous she's surely going to die in a flaming heap resulting in increased insurance premiums and regulations on us all" and "So ho-hum boring that it's only garnering any attention at all because she's a she."
I find it fascinating that you manage to extend your hyperbole so far in both directions well beyond anything anyone actually said.
David Megginson
Pattern Altitude
GA is (literally) dying out as the average pilot age increases. We need to find new pilots soon, and that might mean reaching out specifically to groups who we didn't much bother with in the past (the "take it or leave it" approach you're suggesting). Women represent >50% of the population in most countries, so they're an obvious group to start with.
Our GA airports occupy thousands of square miles of prime real estate that the developers would love to get their hands on, the neighbours would love to see shut down, and municipal politicians would love get votes and or financial support for repurposing. Our only protection is our numbers, and once those start declining sharply, we won't have enough to protect recreational GA.
I see this argument a lot. It's been applied to all kinds of social-equality battles throughout history. Women have been observed to "not be interested due to their nature" in all kinds of things over the years, by those interested in preserving the status quo. Name pretty much any right that we've had to fight for, and this argument has been on the other side of it.
No, Ed, I'm not saying that the ratio must be 50-50 to claim success. I've been in this business a long time, and know better.
Yes. The sky is.
So are flight schools, magazine subscriptions, airline job positions, fly-ins, and all the other things y'all use as exemplars of how everything's fine.
Aviation culture, however, is not.
Flying is of nature, but culture is a human construction, which has problems, and can change for the better.
Consider this board, for instance... I've seen threads here where a male flight instructor posted snarky remarks about his student's body after her first solo. I've seen threads where a guy ranted about how all women will do is get pregnant and take all your money. This is a place where a person can make dismissive comments about women and girls, ranging from merely insensitive to downright creepy, throw in an ambiguous "lol" or confusion-emoji to establish plausible jokiness deniability, and most people think it's perfectly OK. If you don't think that battle is worth fighting, then fine. Do some women stay anyway? Yes. But if women as a group don't want to be involved in a culture like that, "their nature" is not to blame.
If we really need to increase our numbers, we're fishing in the wrong pond.
Many years of trying to recruit females and to recruit youngsters has not moved the needle. If we need GA pilot numbers quickly, we should be targeting the demographic of upper middle class professionals, age 40-60. That group has the financial wherewithal to fly, and once the kids leave they have the time, and they're more likely to have the desire.
Well, then, never mind.
If you ever want an actual answer, let me know.
Serves me right for thinking someone was actually asking.
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Bro do you even lift
I WAS asking, just not you, at that moment. it's an open thread, you're more than welcome to post whatever you want. no one is holding you back. unless we need to start another campaign to have more women replying to this thread.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
All I am saying is theres is always a personal answer, but in the whole scheme of things it doesn't affect anything. And that goes for everything. It's personal for you, so of course its a big deal, just like anything that I've done is personal and a big deal for me, but at the end of the day, there's going to be fighting in Afghanistan, people complaining about who is and isn't president, homeless people crapping on the streets of San Francisco, kids starving in pick some country of the world and its a drop of water in the ocean.
The thing is people want to blame society, but its really more personal, it's on the parents. If parents made it be known that you can do anything you want, and drill it into you that the only person that can really tell you that you can or can't do something is you, then it won't matter what the hell some stranger, or aunt, or uncle, or grandparent or sibling or anyone else besides you says you can or can't do.
I learned this back in first and second grade when I was the first in my school do whatever it was that I wanted. Got teased and ridiculed for it afterwards by pretty much the whole class, didn't care and did it again anyway, because they didn't have any power over telling me what I could and couldn't do and I didn't care what the crap they thought.