100LL Debacle

sliceofstrife said:
If I add 1 molecule of lead to every breath you take, and every sip of water you drink. Would you be okay with that?
Click to expand...

Yes, yes I would!

Since no one has done the math in this thread (and feel free to check this), at 20 breaths a minute, or 28,800 a day, or 10,512,000 a year, one would inhale about 840,960,000 times in an 80 year lifespan.

So 840,960,000 atoms of inhaled lead is a big scary number, right? Except Avagadro's number (6.023 x 10^23) is so very much bigger. At the rate of one atom per breath, one would inhale 0.000000000000001 mol of lead in a lifetime. 207.2 g/mol, so that works out to a lifetime exposure of 0.29 picograms (0.00000000029 mg).

Figuring out the lifetime exposure to lead based on one atom per sip of water is left as an exercise for the reader. But it will also be a lot of atoms, with a total weight almost indistinguishable from zero.
 
Last edited:
MooneyDriver78 said:
Morgan3820 said:
One year, I say before the blue stuff is mostly gone.
Click to expand...
I say 10 years…I think it’s going to take more than a year just to get it into production and have enough airports commit to taking it. You have to wait for most to get the STC.
California probably be first.
Click to expand...

The green stuff was before my time. For those that lived through it, how long did it take for us to transition from that to the blue stuff?
 
And now the rental experience gets fun. Is your rental filled with 100LL (6lb/gal) or G100UL (6.3lb/gal)? Did the last guy mix 100LL and G100UL, or are you about to be an NTSB report?
 
Pi1otguy said:
And now the rental experience gets fun. Is your rental filled with 100LL (6lb/gal) or G100UL (6.3lb/gal)? Did the last guy mix 100LL and G100UL, or are you about to be an NTSB report?
Click to expand...
I think it's supposed to be OK to mix them.

Whether mixing with UL94 has been tested, I don't know.
 
asicer said:
The green stuff was before my time. For those that lived through it, how long did it take for us to transition from that to the blue stuff?
Click to expand...

Good question. But that didn’t require an STC did it?
 
kaiser said:
Ok. Risk management question. Where does accountability fall when something goes wrong? Or are we wholly taking on the risk of this new fuel?
Click to expand...
The FAA. They signed the STC.That doesn’t mean that you aren’t on the hook for actual damages.
 
Walboy said:
What do you think will happen when Bubba lands at an airport with only G100UL and Bubba hasn't purchased the STC?
Click to expand...
Bubba has over a year to purchase the STC. Even then, nobody will ask. I expect that a bunch of the bubbas won’t make the purchase. Bubba pilots are notoriously cheap and grumpy and shortsighted. There are a lot of people that will complain about having to buy presliced bread. There are people that will go out of their way to find something negative about anything new, even if they have to create it. “I don’t like this new fuel injection crap, I like carburetors.”
 
Last edited:
masloki said:
I'm curious if this is a treatment equivalent to adding chemicals to the truck before delivery, no ethanol of course. Or if it is multi-step process that'd mean scheduling the production at a refinery.
Click to expand...
Listen to the AOPA interview and all of your questions will be answered.
 
GaryM said:
Yes, yes I would!

Since no one has done the math in this thread (and feel free to check this), at 20 breaths a minute, or 28,800 a day, or 10,512,000 a year, one would inhale about 840,960,000 times in an 80 year lifespan.

So 840,960,000 atoms of inhaled lead is a big scary number, right? Except Avagadro's number (6.023 x 10^23) is so very much bigger. At the rate of one atom per breath, one would inhale 0.000000000000001 mol of lead in a lifetime. 207.2 g/mol, so that works out to a lifetime exposure of 0.29 picograms (0.00000000029 mg).

Figuring out the lifetime exposure to lead based on one atom per sip of water is left as an exercise for the reader. But it will also be a lot of atoms, with a total weight almost indistinguishable from zero.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that the body does not absorb every molecule inhaled (otherwise, mouth-to-mouth wouldn't work at all).
 
GaryM said:
Yes, yes I would!

Since no one has done the math in this thread (and feel free to check this), at 20 breaths a minute, or 28,800 a day, or 10,512,000 a year, one would inhale about 840,960,000 times in an 80 year lifespan.

So 840,960,000 atoms of inhaled lead is a big scary number, right? Except Avagadro's number (6.023 x 10^23) is so very much bigger. At the rate of one atom per breath, one would inhale 0.000000000000001 mol of lead in a lifetime. 207.2 g/mol, so that works out to a lifetime exposure of 0.29 picograms (0.00000000029 mg).

Figuring out the lifetime exposure to lead based on one atom per sip of water is left as an exercise for the reader. But it will also be a lot of atoms, with a total weight almost indistinguishable from zero.
Click to expand...
There is something of everything in everything.
 
Pi1otguy said:
And now the rental experience gets fun. Is your rental filled with 100LL (6lb/gal) or G100UL (6.3lb/gal)? Did the last guy mix 100LL and G100UL, or are you about to be an NTSB report?
Click to expand...
If you turn in to an NTSB report, you did something besides mixing the fuel.

They tested various mixes.

Most of the questions in this thread were covered in the interview.

And for fuel weight, are you sure that 100LL is only 6.0 pounds per gallon, or do we round off just a bit?
 
Walboy said:
What do you think will happen when Bubba lands at an airport with only G100UL and Bubba hasn't purchased the STC?
Click to expand...

He will fill up with it. And no one will care. Unless he is involved in a mishap and they check the fuel and ask for a copy of the STC. He may then find issues with his insurance coverage.

I know when the MOGAS STCs came out, that many people did not buy the STC, but just ran MOGAS.
 
"this time next year" until we can start pumping it (3:15).
 
Pinecone said:
I like ADSB.

In flight weather. Traffic.
Click to expand...

yup - ADS-B could have been so useful... but suffers from the classic committe charlie-foxtrot screwups and empire building.
 
true, but what we have does give benefits.
 
asicer said:
The green stuff was before my time. For those that lived through it, how long did it take for us to transition from that to the blue stuff?
Click to expand...
One refinery was still making green 100/130 just five years ago... so over 30 years of transition.

Paul
 
On paper, everything implements fast, but to actually make it happen, there are always hurdles. If there's not a good plan in place today that's already being implemented, we better hope 100LL is here for a bit.

A lot pilots explain and talk about an IAP, flying them isnt the same.
 
How much does the STC cost? I must have missed that detail.
I can now buy 91 octane MOGAS for less than $5.00 a gallon.
Why on earth would I spend almost $8.77 a gallon (locally) for G100UL to solve a completely non-existent lead issue?
 
Shepherd said:
How much does the STC cost? I must have missed that detail.
I can now buy 91 octane MOGAS for less than $5.00 a gallon.
Why on earth would I spend almost $8.77 a gallon (locally) for G100UL to solve a completely non-existent lead issue?
Click to expand...
You wouldn't. But a lot of people live in places where ethanol free mogas simply isn't available.
 
Shepherd said:
How much does the STC cost? I must have missed that detail.
I can now buy 91 octane MOGAS for less than $5.00 a gallon.
Why on earth would I spend almost $8.77 a gallon (locally) for G100UL to solve a completely non-existent lead issue?
Click to expand...
well then....you can save all your pennies and not buy it. The STC will cost something comparable to the Peterson STC.
 
Shepherd said:
How much does the STC cost? I must have missed that detail.
I can now buy 91 octane MOGAS for less than $5.00 a gallon.
Why on earth would I spend almost $8.77 a gallon (locally) for G100UL to solve a completely non-existent lead issue?
Click to expand...
No reason at all. But didn’t you just recently get a filling station that carry the ethanol free? What would you have done before?
 
PaulMillner said:
One refinery was still making green 100/130 just five years ago... so over 30 years of transition.

Paul
Click to expand...

Interesting. For what market?

I know that someone was making a batch of Purple 115/145 for Reno each year.
 
GAMI supposedly has AVFUEL in place for distribution.

As for making it, someone will have front the money to pay for it. And unless there is something difficult for a refinery in the process, if you order and pay for it, they will make it.
 
Shepherd said:
How much does the STC cost? I must have missed that detail.
I can now buy 91 octane MOGAS for less than $5.00 a gallon.
Why on earth would I spend almost $8.77 a gallon (locally) for G100UL to solve a completely non-existent lead issue?
Click to expand...

Since it’s only paperwork, no actual changes required as I understand it (not even changing the timing?), I think if it’s more than $100 we’re getting screwed.
They’ll make plenty of money off the royalties on the fuel.
 
Morgan3820 said:
No reason at all. But didn’t you just recently get a filling station that carry the ethanol free? What would you have done before?
Click to expand...

My son-in-law offered to start bringing MOGAS down to me from farther upstate. Or just keep using 100LL. I'll run out of time before they run out of 100LL.
 
Pinecone said:
He will fill up with it. And no one will care. Unless he is involved in a mishap and they check the fuel and ask for a copy of the STC. He may then find issues with his insurance coverage.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't surprise me if some flavor of look for the sticker gatekeeping doesn't become a req for fuel truck drivers.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
If you turn in to an NTSB report, you did something besides mixing the fuel.
Click to expand...
We are on the cusp of creating a generation of pilots who will never experience fouling. Until they get a few tanks of the old 100LL and fail to lean during ground ops.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top