$10,000 to get off Delta flight

Hang 4 said:
Because they got no volunteers at a lower number. Keep raising until enough people say yes...
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You are missing the point. Why pay more for volunteers than it costs to just tell some people they are not getting on the flight?
 
Katamarino said:
Got any evidence for that? Because every account that I can find agrees that he never accepted anything and that the incident played out after all passengers had already boarded. As far as I can tell, what you've written is a straight up lie.
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There were several accounts by people working for United when it happened.

Not all the passengers were boarded. See the empty seat beside him.

And United did not drag him off. Airport security did that.
 
Pinecone said:
You are missing the point. Why pay more for volunteers than it costs to just tell some people they are not getting on the flight?
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You're missing mine. Cheaper to pay $ vs drag someone off the plane who doesn't think $750 is enough for a massive disruption to their travel plans- See Dr. Dao references - or the broken violin, also on United...
 
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Pinecone said:
How did they "initiate" the event? They offered X for taking a later flight. He accepted. Then he changed his mind. And just boarded the plane, without a valid boarding pass (his was cancelled when he accepted the offer to deplane."

If you notice in the video, the seat next to him was empty. That what where his wife was still in gate area after they accepted the offer.
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Pinecone said:
There were several accounts by people working for United when it happened.

Not all the passengers were boarded. See the empty seat beside him.

And United did not drag him off. Airport security did that.
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United's response to the Senate Commerce Committee:

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlines/united-delivers-response-to-lawmakers.html

That document says that there was one person who was denied boarding and compensated before boarding the aircraft. Later, the need to transport four crew members became apparent, and an additional four passengers were selected from among those onboard. Of those four, two got off the plane when instructed to do so. Dr. Dao and his wife did not. So it's possible that the empty seat you saw in the video was one of the seats that were vacated by the two who got off before the Chicago Department of Aviation security officers arrived.

It's also possible that the United rumor mill got Dr. Dao mixed up with the one passenger who was denied and compensated before boarding. :dunno:
 
Pinecone said:
You are missing the point. Why pay more for volunteers than it costs to just tell some people they are not getting on the flight?
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You are missing the point. This is about people who had already boarded. If they don't volunteer to give up their seats for $750, is this what you would do next?

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This is the $750 solution. How much is it worth to you for your business not to have images and videos like this distributed worldwide? What will it cost you to defend the inevitable lawsuit? How big will the inevitable settlement be? What will you spend in public relations money trying to repair your corporate image? What might happen to your company's stock price? What executive management changes will the stockholders demand? What will it cost you to create new policies and train your employees on them?

Maybe, considering all that, you might decide that it will be cheaper in the long run, and better business all around, to pay a few thousand to get the volunteers you need.
 
Hang 4 said:
You're missing mine. Cheaper to pay $ vs drag someone off the plane who doesn't think $750 is enough for a massive disruption to their travel plans- See Dr. Dao references - or the broken violin, also on United...
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You don't have to drag anyone off. The extra people will have not boarded. They would not have a boarding pass.

You just tell them, too bad, you don't have a seat, we will rebook you on XXX flight.
 
Pinecone said:
You don't have to drag anyone off. The extra people will have not boarded. They would not have a boarding pass.

You just tell them, too bad, you don't have a seat, we will rebook you on XXX flight.
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You will have a short career as a gate agent.
 
Hang 4 said:
You will have a short career as a gate agent.
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I don’t think he’s ever flown commercially.

By the time people are at the gate, they already have boarding passes. You can’t even get through security without one. Most folks have the pass on their phones. Others print them before leaving for the airport.
 
Half Fast said:
I don’t think he’s ever flown commercially.

By the time people are at the gate, they already have boarding passes. You can’t even get through security without one. Most folks have the pass on their phones. Others print them before leaving for the airport.
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Have you ever heard people being told to NOT board unless their name comes up on the board. They have what looks like a boarding pass, but there is no seat assignment and cannot be used to actually board the aircraft.

The same with stand by passengers.

All those people have to wait to see if there will be a seat. In some cases, they are called to the desk for an actual boarding pass. Other times, the computer will accept their scan and spit out a piece of paper with their seat assignment. Or the gate agent will print an actual boarding pass.

No, I don't fly commercial much. Million miler on one airline. About to be two million miler on another airline. About 200,000 on the third airline.
 
Matthew Johnson said:
If it is a XXX flight, they will probably get plenty of volunteers without having to pay big $! Some people might even pay to be on that one...
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Pretty sure the Lolita Express got shut down after Epstein didn’t kill himself.
 
Sluggo63 said:
The limit is for being bumped. There is no limit to what the airline can offer to get you to voluntarily give up your seat.

From the same link you posted:

"There is no limit to the amount of money or vouchers that the airline may offer, and passengers are free to negotiate with the airline."

Edit: and to answer your question about why they would offer $10,000 if they could just bump passengers for $775... it's because they would rather offer and pay $10,000 to get someone to voluntarily give up their seat than run into another Dr. Dao situation. That fiasco changed the way airlines handle bumping passengers.
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Hasn't changed American at all. I saw them yank an already seated guy from the back of coach to board a deadheading flight attendent (going home, but still entitled by the rules to a confirmed seat). There were already two pilots in jump seats in the cockpit. Don't know if they asked for volunteers. I didn't hear any aboard the plane (I was in first class so I pretty much went straight from the Admirals club to my seat when boarding started).
 
flyingron said:
Hasn't changed American at all. I saw them yank an already seated guy from the back of coach to board a deadheading flight attendent (going home, but still entitled by the rules to a confirmed seat). There were already two pilots in jump seats in the cockpit. Don't know if they asked for volunteers. I didn't hear any aboard the plane (I was in first class so I pretty much went straight from the Admirals club to my seat when boarding started).
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I'd be wouldn't be surprised if the person they "yanked" was a non-rev passenger. Those would be the first to go, and that's one of the known pitfalls of standby travel. You can get pulled for a variety of reasons up until they pull the jetway back.
 
Pinecone said:
Have you ever heard people being told to NOT board unless their name comes up on the board. They have what looks like a boarding pass, but there is no seat assignment and cannot be used to actually board the aircraft.
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The part you are missing is that not all are equal. The guy with a seat that bought a ticket 6 months ago for $200 isn't getting the same consideration as the guy with a "seat request" card that paid $1,500 to fly last minute and has Diamond Medallion status who is going to end up with a seat. Mr. "flys once a year on whoever is cheapest", is getting bumped even if he's already boarded. I've been the guy getting the seat, didn't feel great about it, but understand the business rationale. The have algorithms that estimate the lifetime value of each passenger. Before retirement, mine was very high and I never got bumped. Now I don't have the same expectation, nor the same need to be on the flight.
 
As an aside, an auction is the fairest way to do this. I flew weekly on high demand days. Monday AM, Thursday evening. I couldn't accept a bump on Monday, but had some flexibility on Thursdays. Most of the time on Thursdays, the offered Delta $ were not enough to be that interesting to stay an extra night. Now, I'd gladly give up my seat for cash and a reasonable re-booking option.
 
I've only voluntarily got off once. I was returning from CLT->BWI and the cheap flight was the 7AM one. I leave my house at 5AM to get to the airport in time (it's about an hour drive). They offered $250 to take a flight two hours later. I had nowhere to be so I just sat there drinking bloody marys for a few hours. What was stupid about this was I would have gladly taken the 9AM flight for nothing if they had offered it to me BEFORE I GOT UP SO #*&%% EARLY.

I've been bumped twice on an equipment change. At least one time I got upgraded to first on the replacement flight (United). The other time the gate agent is staring at my pass and saying "you're a different Ron Natalie" than I know. He knew my father. This guy had formerly been the NWA station chief at DCA and my father did a lot of regulatory work with NW and was a regular on that airline at DCA.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I'd be wouldn't be surprised if the person they "yanked" was a non-rev passenger. Those would be the first to go, and that's one of the known pitfalls of standby travel. You can get pulled for a variety of reasons up until they pull the jetway back.
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Yep... I got pulled several times when I was jump seating. And sometimes after the push back. Once in Minneapolis, 1am, middle of winter and snowing. The FA dropped the rear stairs and out I go. Took about 15 minutes to find a way back inside...:lol::lol:

Oh the joys of jumpseating....
 
I did not do a lot of business travel, but some. The only time I got "bumped" was when some folks wanted to sit together and so my boss and I got moved to first class.

I know, it was weird. The unfortunately part was that it was on a short flight from Huntsville to Houston.
 
Pinecone said:
Have you ever heard people being told to NOT board unless their name comes up on the board. They have what looks like a boarding pass, but there is no seat assignment and cannot be used to actually board the aircraft.
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That's called a security document. Gets you through security but not onto the airplane.
 
Non Rev’ed through EWR yesterday and was able to get home despite the Issues this weekend…lots of Revenue Standbys and did see a seat assignment canceled for one passenger while trying to board for some reason…also same flight asking any business first passenger willing to give up their seat for a $1000.00 voucher and fly in economy. I was non rev not because I wanted, but had two different flights one Southwest and another American out of Providence RI cancel.
 
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Sometimes, it can work for you.

Wife and I went to Maui for a board meeting (hey - it was *work*!); DFW to OGG in coach is not my idea of a good time, so I had bought First (and the diff in price was not all that ridiculous).

At the time, there were tow non-stops each way, each day, about 2 hours apart. Worked out that, going home, there was one First seat in each flight available; tried several times to change to both of us on either flight (didn't care which), but no joy.

When we checked in, a gruff ticket agent told me that (1) no, there was no way she could change either of us to the other flight, and (2) even if she could, it would cost some stupid amount (couple of grand?) to make the change. Meh, NBD, since I was taking the first flight and all the bags, and CJane was taking the second one, and would walk off like a rock star. Plus, we had friends on both flights.

Then, while waiting for first flight to leave, gate agent asks for volunteers to take the second flight, since the first was overbooked; I offered to do so, as long as we both sat in F on the second flight; she tippy-tappied a bit on the computer, and said, "Yep, I can do that," so I gave her my Boarding Pass in exchange for the promise she'd get us set up after the first flight departed.

True to her word, first flight left and she called me to the podium to collect our two, new Boarding Passes in F for the second flight. Here I am, all tickled we get to travel together, but as I turen to walk back to where my bride is waiting for me, the Gate Agent says, "Wait, you get this, too." And, "this" was a $1,000.00 flight voucher.

All in all, it was a nice swing.

They don't all work that way, of course.
 
flyingron said:
Hasn't changed American at all. I saw them yank an already seated guy from the back of coach to board a deadheading flight attendent (going home, but still entitled by the rules to a confirmed seat). There were already two pilots in jump seats in the cockpit. Don't know if they asked for volunteers. I didn't hear any aboard the plane (I was in first class so I pretty much went straight from the Admirals club to my seat when boarding started).
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Doesn’t matter if the flight deck seats were occupied. Flight attendants can’t ride up front.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Doesn’t matter if the flight deck seats were occupied. Flight attendants can’t ride up front.
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At all? Ever? Can they do like a Fam flight up there? What's the logic behind not allowing dead heading stews up there? Do you still do Controller Fams?
 
Pilots can’t occupy FA jump seats and FA’s can’t occupy Pilot flight deck jump seats on all the major airlines that I know…
 
Warlock said:
Pilots can’t occupy FA jump seats and FA’s can’t occupy Pilot flight deck jump seats on all the major airlines that I know…
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That’s not true. We can sit in FA jumpseats at Delta. They can’t sit in our jumpseat though.
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, but I understand his frustration. They paid 8 people $10,000 each. $80k would make a decent pay raise for one pilot.
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$80K isn’t even budget dust spread across a pilot group. When $80K/each leg for bumps becomes a normal expenditure, then it’s time to hire more talent or reduce the number of fares available to sell.

Increasing pay (a G&A cost) has to be offset somewhere, either is efficiency improvements or improved revenue. Sooner or later higher costs get passed on to the customer and sooner or later price exceeds a point of equilibrium.

As it is, for more of our normal trips than less, I’m more likely to take the 172 than airline it if we’re both going.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Doesn’t matter if the flight deck seats were occupied. Flight attendants can’t ride up front.
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I wasn't suggesting that. I was just pointing out that the plane was oversold to the point were they were cramming multiple pilots in the cockpit (no seats around in the back for them either and it didn't look comfortable up there, at least this was only a short flight DCA->CLT).
The flight attendent was begrudingly going to take the remaining FA jumpseat if it meant not getting home but she was "guaranteed a confirmed seat" so they had to pull someone off for her.
Probably would have behooved the airline to conduct this dirty business off the plane rather than in front of the first class passengers but most people wouldn't have caught on to what was going on.
 
flyingron said:
I wasn't suggesting that. I was just pointing out that the plane was oversold to the point were they were cramming multiple pilots in the cockpit (no seats around in the back for them either and it didn't look comfortable up there, at least this was only a short flight DCA->CLT).
The flight attendent was begrudingly going to take the remaining FA jumpseat if it meant not getting home but she was "guaranteed a confirmed seat" so they had to pull someone off for her.
Probably would have behooved the airline to conduct this dirty business off the plane rather than in front of the first class passengers but most people wouldn't have caught on to what was going on.
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Pilot's riding in the flight deck are not on company business (well, they better not be, as it's frowned upon).
 
Never fly Delta and admit don’t know their policy…
 
Written into Union contracts and Delta FA’s are not Union is my best guess…that’s what drives the other airlines…
 
Pinecone said:
You are missing the point. Why pay more for volunteers than it costs to just tell some people they are not getting on the flight?
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Probably because the $775 is for a involuntarily denied boarding, while the $10k is a voluntary denied boarding. The DOT tracks each airlines' involuntary denied boardings but not voluntary.
 
Warlock said:
Pilots can’t occupy FA jump seats and FA’s can’t occupy Pilot flight deck jump seats on all the major airlines that I know…
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At Southwest any employee can occupy the FA jumpseat and FAs don't get priority as it goes to the 1st person to list. The Pilot jumpseat can only be occuppied by pilots, dispatchers, and Southwest Mechanics but priority is given to Southwest Pilots. The FAM rides for new FAs stopped after 9/11.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I'd be wouldn't be surprised if the person they "yanked" was a non-rev passenger. Those would be the first to go, and that's one of the known pitfalls of standby travel. You can get pulled for a variety of reasons up until they pull the jetway back.
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Yeap. A big reason I do not get free tickets with my miles. I use them for upgrades.

I was on a MD80 flight out of Colorado Springs on a hot afternoon. they could not select flaps 15. So this affected the max gross for that runway at that density altitude.

And off duty mechanic, traveling on vacation with his family, came up to try to fix the issue. No go, so they offered for people to get off for some amount. then offloaded the non-rev pax, including the mechanic and his family.
 
Hang 4 said:
The part you are missing is that not all are equal. The guy with a seat that bought a ticket 6 months ago for $200 isn't getting the same consideration as the guy with a "seat request" card that paid $1,500 to fly last minute and has Diamond Medallion status who is going to end up with a seat. Mr. "flys once a year on whoever is cheapest", is getting bumped even if he's already boarded. I've been the guy getting the seat, didn't feel great about it, but understand the business rationale. The have algorithms that estimate the lifetime value of each passenger. Before retirement, mine was very high and I never got bumped. Now I don't have the same expectation, nor the same need to be on the flight.
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No, I am not missing this.

But most likely the $1500 Diamond Medallion has a seat assignment the $200 Basic Economy does not. IIRC, Basic Economy cannot pre-select a seat.
 
Pinecone said:
No, I am not missing this.

But most likely the $1500 Diamond Medallion has a seat assignment the $200 Basic Economy does not. IIRC, Basic Economy cannot pre-select a seat.
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I have extensive personal experience with this. In March of 2021, I couldn't select a specific seat, but I was assigned one when I did the check-in 24 hours before and got my boarding pass. Only once did I ever get my seat changed at the gate, and it was to move me to a further forward seat. By July, Delta allowed me to select a seat free of charge with Basic Economy when I booked my ticket online, and for the next two flights, I was always able to pick my seat, and they still allow it as of two weeks ago.
 
jayhawk74 said:
At Southwest any employee can occupy the FA jumpseat and FAs don't get priority as it goes to the 1st person to list. The Pilot jumpseat can only be occuppied by pilots, dispatchers, and Southwest Mechanics but priority is given to Southwest Pilots. The FAM rides for new FAs stopped after 9/11.
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There's still something I'm not getting. Put FAM trips aside. Do FA's 'commute' to work on flights like pilots do? If yes, why the prohibition on an FA doing it in the cockpit? If I've read along here right, it sounds like 'commuting' pilots can, but commuting FA's cannot. I'm trying to figure out what the logic would be for that.
 
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