Toronto - Delta Airlines CRJ-900 upside down, Flight 4819 from Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport (MSP) to Toronto

That is a remarkable video. A controlled descent with absolutely no flare at all to my eyes, what appears to be a collapse of the R main and separation of the right wing, and subsequent rollover to inverted. The physics of how they ended up upside down on the runway I think is now explained. The WHY of how it got there will be interesting. I'll look forward to the investigation results.
 
Wow… we’re overthinking this a tad, ya I know…

Pilot flying didn’t know how to fly
Pilot monitoring didn’t know how to monitor

Why THAT is, goes WAAAAAAY back.

Also causal, and with my background I’m obliged to mention:

Airplane not strong like bull

Weather, automated callouts, etc: meh
Or extreme windshear just prior to flare. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I am.
 
Airplane not strong like bull

I beg to differ, I’m quite impressed that they smacked the runway hard enough to shear off a wing yet that CRJ fuselage stayed in one piece thru the bang, roll, and slide.

Two things that kept this from being a disaster:

-Fireball went with the wing and not the fuse
-Fuselage stayed in one piece thru the accident sequence
 
Oh ****! I've got this airline pilot thing in the bag. I didn't realize where the bar was.

I mean, i know where the bar is. I'm told that's the first qualification but this... I got this.

Buckle up.
So….. you what airline you shooring for? Crash Express? Russian Nyet Airlines?
 
Wow… we’re overthinking this a tad, ya I know…

Pilot flying didn’t know how to fly
Pilot monitoring didn’t know how to monitor

Why THAT is, goes WAAAAAAY back.

Also causal, and with my background I’m obliged to mention:

Airplane not strong like bull

Weather, automated callouts, etc: meh
Perhaps. It’s the easiest solution I guess so not improbable but there are scenarios where skilled crews have the same outcome with no pilot error.

There was a crj that ran off the runway a few years back. The captain was born without a pecker and it was obviously a regional. All kinds of poop was slung on that deal. DEI, AQP puppy mill blah blah blah. Turns out there was no pilot error. Just an inaccurate braking action report.

While it’s clearly a possibility this was just a human mistake and I have thought those same thoughts, I’m not ready to throw any shade just yet.
 
There is a lot of snow in the air in the video of the lading, no flare. I suspect that they misjudged their actual altitude. In the passenger deboarding, there were times with blowing snow.

The wing came off, and burst into flames where it was, the plane went on without that fire being connected to them, fortunately it severed completely.
Hats off to Bombardier. They build a stout tube. Wing coming off would have split most airframes I think.
 
I know we should wait for the formal NTSB report to come out. But, I'd love to hear some opinions on what went wrong here. From the video it appears like a hard landing with almost 3 wheels touching down at the same time?!? Was he too slow?
I landing in the M350 2 days ago. Icy rwy with a direct 90 degree crosswind at 20 kts and 5000 ft long rwy. My heart rate was up for sure. Flying in the winter is somewhat new to me and these incidents arent helping my confidence. ha
 
Oh ****! I've got this airline pilot thing in the bag. I didn't realize where the bar was.

I mean, i know where the bar is. I'm told that's the first qualification but this... I got this.

Buckle up.

Yup. Comanche landings are good practice.
 
Alternate theory:

Defect/problem in the H stab deice. Control surface ices, not enough control authority to get a flair. So the pilots bang it in and pray.
 
Edit: looks like this one was already shared via a different link

 
Well, if the power levers WERE NOT pinned to the firewall at smack down, we will have the definitive answer to the question.
 
I know, camera angles and all, but it sure looks like the pitch attitude at impact was lower than when it first came into frame.
 
Alternate theory:

Defect/problem in the H stab deice. Control surface ices, not enough control authority to get a flair. So the pilots bang it in and pray.

No.

The CRJ 200/700/900 airplanes do not have any anti-ice systems on the Horizontal Stabilizer.

In certification flight testing, it was shown that that surface did not accumulate ice. Before anybody asks, I don’t remember why.

EVEN IF there was ice on the horizontal stab, it would not prevent the elevator surface from moving and inhibiting the ability of the pilot to flare.

IF the stabilizer was “frozen” due to ice accumulation, the crew would have gotten an EICAS message indicating a stab mistrim condition if the autopilot was ON.
If the autopilot was off and they were hand-flying in this scenario, they would not have been able to trim the airplane.

Lastly, the Horizontal Stab on the airplane is driven by a jackscrew, which is obviously in the internal structure of the tail- not susceptible to ice accumulation.
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It is extremely unlikely that your hypothesis is accurate.
 
Um, this bit about flaring... when the main gear is built far to the rear, I could name some rather big airlines that have advocated "rolling it on", i.e., nosing it over to decrease the force of the landing. Not that I like that philosophy, but it's out there.
 
Plane was still nose down, not nose up like you would expect in flair.

They nose smacked that thing just like a new student pilot in a 172
A loss of airspeed may cause the nose to drop, correct? Still giving benefit of doubt ... until data recorder gives us the skinny.
 
No.

The CRJ 200/700/900 airplanes do not have any anti-ice systems on the Horizontal Stabilizer.

In certification flight testing, it was shown that that surface did not accumulate ice. Before anybody asks, I don’t remember why.

EVEN IF there was ice on the horizontal stab, it would not prevent the elevator surface from moving and inhibiting the ability of the pilot to flare.

IF the stabilizer was “frozen” due to ice accumulation, the crew would have gotten an EICAS message indicating a stab mistrim condition if the autopilot was ON.
If the autopilot was off and they were hand-flying in this scenario, they would not have been able to trim the airplane.

Lastly, the Horizontal Stab on the airplane is driven by a jackscrew, which is obviously in the internal structure of the tail- not susceptible to ice accumulation.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

It is extremely unlikely that your hypothesis is accurate.
Thanks for the info. I’m just trying to think of scenarios why a competent pilot would not be able to flair the airplane.
 
I'm just putting this out there, could this be a right main landing gear failure?
I speculate this, especially after watching the posted video, because the wind was 35 knots (40 mph) from the west with a crosswind component of about 23 knots, the landing was on 23, and the right wing hit hard upon landing. Can the CRJ rotate to the right enough for wind compensation on landing to make the wind hit the ground? The video does not seem to show enough rotation to the right, which could mean a right main landing gear problem.
 
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I speculate this, especially after watching the posted video, because the wind was 35 knots (40 mph) from the west with a crosswind component of about 23 knots, the landing was on 05, and the right wing hit hard upon landing. Can the CRJ rotate to the right enough for wind compensation on landing to make the wind hit the ground? The video does not seem to show enough rotation to the right, which could mean a right main landing gear problem.
Runway 23. Wind from the west. Wing looked into the wind, nose appeared up slightly and main gear looked to have collapsed upon touchdown, to me. I'm giving the pilot a pass.
 
Um, this bit about flaring... when the main gear is built far to the rear, I could name some rather big airlines that have advocated "rolling it on", i.e., nosing it over to decrease the force of the landing. Not that I like that philosophy, but it's out there.
Highly unlikely given the conditions. There is no place for finesse in those circumstances.
 
I heard "somewhere" that the CRJ was given a wake turbulence warning by ATC prior to landing ?
They were given a warning that the glideslope may “bump” because the plane that took that video from the cockpit was stopped in the ILS critical area.
 
Runway 23. Wind from the west. Wing looked into the wind, nose appeared up slightly and main gear looked to have collapsed upon touchdown, to me. I'm giving the pilot a pass.
RW Corrected. Thanks!
 
Looks to me like the pilot did not flare at all. Theres a video that circulates online of some pilots flying into an airport called butan and they hit the ground hard ..and i mean hard but the plane survives. This seems like a lot for this plane to land and break apart like that.

 
Thanks for the info. I’m just trying to think of scenarios why a competent pilot would not be able to flair the airplane.
Hi Bill.

My theory? Based on 5500 hours total time on that airplane?

You can get so focused on crosswind correction and keeping the airplane on centerline, that you quite literally forget to flare.
 
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What’s the deck angle on that plane when established on a 3 degree Glideslope. It’ll be different of course depending on configuration. What is the range?
 
Didn’t accumulate, or ice accumulation didn’t have an adverse effect?
lol
Good question.

IIRC it was “ice accumulation on the horizontal stabilizer during flight testing was unappreciable and had zero adverse affect on longitudinal control or stability.”
 
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