Cost of a private pilot certificate now??

AlphaPilotFlyer

AlphaPilotFlyer

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AlphaPilotFlyer
I have been speaking with students at my home airport about cost to get a private pilot cert and I was blown away. It seems most were about $15k to $17k with everything. Cheapest I heard was about $10k from local flying club. Some are paying $1500 for just the checkride and almost $200/hr for a beat up vintage c172 that are down awaiting parts or A&P which seem to also be in short supply. One guy told me he went to an accelerated program owned by a DPE so got his check ride fast but paid heavily for it in higher CFI and rental costs but figured it saved him about 3-5 months time awaiting a DPE each rating.

Many of the part 141 cadets here say they have taken loans for the about $125k training costs. I flew with a few of their CFIs in my experimental and wasn’t too impressed.

I get there’s good jobs in their future, but it should not cost this much and other options need be available.

I suggested to a couple of guys wanting to get all their ratings buy an experimental aircraft together, that will cost a fraction to fly…… they ended up with a certified Ercoupe (likely the cheapest certified to own) Initially that they did their private in and built time, then bought a beat up c182 for their IFR and commercial….which they sold right after their rides. Used the Ercoupe to build time and get CFI with both pilots logging PIC at 70 kts.


What other methods of keeping training cost low?
 
I find the biggest time and money saver is someone who can fly 3-5x a week every week and is focused on learning. The next biggest time and money saver is a CFI that isn’t learning how to be a CFI.
 
Most CFIs are garbage and the real reason students run out of money is because CFI are not good teachers. I had no less than 8 CFIs in my logbook before I found someone worth a damn.

"A&P which seem to also be in short supply." Because GA AnP pay is garbage. Shops are scared to raise rates, yet shop owners complain they can't get AnPs. I'm close to $40/hr at a regional, have a 401k, sick time, PTO, flight privileges, bonus pay, uniform allowance.... what's a GA shop gonna offer other than dayshift???
 
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We estimated roughly $15,000 to get the private certificate. Old 172s rent for $165 per hour because the cost of insurance, maintenance and fuel require that to make a small profit. DPEs here charge $500 for the checkride, but we know it is much higher elsewhere. The FBO makes very little on training and renting, the biggest source of revenue is fuel sales.
 
AlphaPilotFlyer said:
I have been speaking with students at my home airport about cost to get a private pilot cert and I was blown away. It seems most were about $15k to $17k with everything. Cheapest I heard was about $10k from local flying club. Some are paying $1500 for just the checkride and almost $200/hr for a beat up vintage c172 that are down awaiting parts or A&P which seem to also be in short supply. One guy told me he went to an accelerated program owned by a DPE so got his check ride fast but paid heavily for it in higher CFI and rental costs but figured it saved him about 3-5 months time awaiting a DPE each rating.

Many of the part 141 cadets here say they have taken loans for the about $125k training costs. I flew with a few of their CFIs in my experimental and wasn’t too impressed.

I get there’s good jobs in their future, but it should not cost this much and other options need be available.

I suggested to a couple of guys wanting to get all their ratings buy an experimental aircraft together, that will cost a fraction to fly…… they ended up with a certified Ercoupe (likely the cheapest certified to own) Initially that they did their private in and built time, then bought a beat up c182 for their IFR and commercial….which they sold right after their rides. Used the Ercoupe to build time and get CFI with both pilots logging PIC at 70 kts.


What other methods of keeping training cost low.
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There is no low cost flight training. The only way to keep the costs low is to get someone else to pay for it. That means scholarships or employer scholarship reimbursement programs.

There are ways to save on flight training. Few will accept that advice and I have quit offering it because most people would rather complain about how much it costs vs doing the extra work required to save money.
 
Google tells me that $1 in 1990-1991 is worth about $2.41 today

I don't recall the exact numbers, but I remember clearly that it was pretty close to $3k for my private, and another $3k for my instrument rating
I was working full time and only able to fly most weekends when the weather and stars aligned, so averaged probably 2-3 flights per month...so my costs would have been on the high-ish side for the day...Anyway, that should make it around about $3,000 x 2.41 = roughly $7,230.00 today

I noticed that something happened around the 1999 to 2000 timeframe that started jacking the rental rates (and I suppose everything else regarding GA too)
 
AlphaPilotFlyer said:
Many of the part 141 cadets here say they have taken loans for the about $125k training costs.
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Crazy. That can be justified somewhat when the market is booming, but I feel bad for folks doing it right now. I believe this economy is running on borrowed time and a lot of these over leveraged individuals have a high chance of default on these high interest loans. If they go, a potential financial collapse is inevitable, it’s scary.

I have a new student who asked about taking out a loan to pay for flight training and I advised against. If the budget doesn’t allow for 3-4 lessons per week, so be it, you’ll be better off down the road.
 
Brad W said:
Google tells me that $1 in 1990-1991 is worth about $2.41 today

I don't recall the exact numbers, but I remember clearly that it was pretty close to $3k for my private, and another $3k for my instrument rating
I was working full time and only able to fly most weekends when the weather and stars aligned, so averaged probably 2-3 flights per month...so my costs would have been on the high-ish side for the day...Anyway, that should make it around about $3,000 x 2.41 = roughly $7,230.00 today

I noticed that something happened around the 1999 to 2000 timeframe that started jacking the rental rates (and I suppose everything else regarding GA too)
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Yeah, inflation is a real thing. Don't know if anyone noticed, but there's talk that the penny will soon be a thing of the past.


As of today - Feb. 10. 2025, a vintage silver quarter is worth approximately $5.79. Divide your $200/hr by $5.79 and you get 34 1/2 quarters, or roughly NINE dollars in 1964 quarters per hour to operate the aircraft.

So in old money value, you're still paying less than $10 dollars per hour!

The problem is that we've moved off of a physical standard and we've been printing money out the wazoo instead.

No one is teaching the majority of our schoolkids what actually causes inflation, and us adults haven't had the willpower to fight it in effective numbers.
 
I really wish I had written down what I paid for rentals, instructors, and fuel over the 30+ years I have been flying. I THINK I paid $38-$45 an hour for a busted up 150/152 back in 1990, but I don't know. I think I have receipts from 1999 in a PA28-180 I rented to do my commercial check ride somewhere. I think it was around $70/hour.
 
I feel bad for the person who wants to fly for fun,and not going to the airlines. 12-15 k and ratty old airplanes to rent after getting your license. Light sport was supposed to relieve some of the costs,not happening.
 
frfly172 said:
Light sport was supposed to relieve some of the costs,not happening.
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It’s because they’re seeing higher demand due to the price delta and thus flight school’s can justify charging more and having higher margins.
 
Folks are paying up to and over 100K for a car, 400K for a 1500 sq ft house and 20 bucks for a happy meal at McDs, so whats 15K for a private pilot certificate.??

It appears to me that today's generations think spending lots and lots of money is what makes them cool.

And I know, it has been said before, pilots are cheapos...
 
Likely no way around the 10-15k$ of PPL expense. Operating an aircraft isn't cheap (as 95% of venting threads on PoA will tell you).
And the CFI has to eat, so they need some money too:)

Unlike some others, I think borrowing is totally fine to accelerate your career.
For many reasons I would not write a check to ATP or similar programs for $125k, but I also wouldn't be allergic to strategically taking on debt for the right opportunities if they could speed up my path to a flying career.
 
In May 1963 my ASEL private license total cost was $590. Nearly new C150 rental was $10, C172 was 15$, and a Mooney S21 was $20/hr. All were with fuel included. I don't recall for sure if PVT check ride $$ was included.
 
nrpetersen said:
In May 1963 my ASEL private license total cost was $590. Nearly new C150 rental was $10, C172 was 15$, and a Mooney S21 was $20/hr. All were with fuel included. I don't recall for sure if PVT check ride $$ was included.
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That checks with my look at Coinflation in the link above!!!
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Likely no way around the 10-15k$ of PPL expense. Operating an aircraft isn't cheap (as 95% of venting threads on PoA will tell you).
And the CFI has to eat, so they need some money too:)

Unlike some others, I think borrowing is totally fine to accelerate your career.
For many reasons I would not write a check to ATP or similar programs for $125k, but I also wouldn't be allergic to strategically taking on debt for the right opportunities if they could speed up my path to a flying career.
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I disagree, there are practical ways to significantly lower costs. First off, start with the biggest cost item of operating a plane which is ridiculous. Who would pay like rates to rent a 40 year-old car with no modern safety features and original equipment? It’s not that difficult to lower costs and many have come up with viable solutions but shut down by FAA anti GA culture at the top.

Our experimental c172 cost just over $22/hr to fly and we had a high schooler go from zero to PPL for about $3,400 all inclusive (plane, gas, CFI, check ride fee)….. another trained and passed his commercial for a fraction of the cost compared to renting or owning a c172 with original engine. And we are just 4 guys self funding the project. There were plenty of small companies that could have made a real change if not for FAA culture. So, there’s no reason to accept the high cost of flying simple legacy aircraft other than no alternatives. Lowering cost is only way to bring more pilots and increase influence.

I recently was talking with another CFI about fastest and cheapest method to get a PPL thru CFI…
1. Share a simple experimental aircraft that can burn car gas.
2. Find a good CFI with experience teaching…. They re getting scarce.
3. Sign up for online ground schools….. some are way better than classes
4.Take your ppl written before starting flying lessons
5. Budget Time and $ to Fly at least 3x week, 4x better
6. Follow a syllabus, always know what you should be working on
7. Rinse and repeat for each rating…. Take the instrument and CFII written same day as most questions the same.
8. When airplane is availed on ramp, sit in it and practice maneuvers. Listen to ATC feeds. Sit in back seat of other’s training flights. Unless on a x-country, don’t fly over an airport without entering the pattern and doing a go-around or touch and go. Don’t avoid class c or B, get a clearance through it. Give a Pirep every flight. Use the safety pilot reg so 2 can load PIC time. Do as much hands on owner maintenance you can. Fly at most economical speeds (slow and cheap ). Do charity flights for time building for tax purposes, such as transporting pets between shelters. Transport contraband from Latin America for cartels. ECT…

All of this will save you $
 
pfarber said:
Most CFIs are garbage and the real reason students run out of money is because CFI are not good teachers. I had no less than 8 CFIs in my logbook before I found someone worth a damn.

"A&P which seem to also be in short supply." Because GA AnP pay is garbage. Shops are scared to raise rates, yet shop owners complain they can't get AnPs. I'm close to $40/hr at a regional, have a 401k, sick time, PTO, flight privileges, bonus pay, uniform allowance.... what's a GA shop gonna offer other than dayshift???
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Why didn’t you wait and hire/find a good CFI then?

$40hr flying 121?! And this post was from this year?

I easily command more than that when I do the occasional BFR around the home drome, when asked and when I don’t have anything else to do for a few hours.
 
AlphaPilotFlyer said:
I disagree, there are practical ways to significantly lower costs. First off, start with the biggest cost item of operating a plane which is ridiculous. Who would pay like rates to rent a 40 year-old car with no modern safety features and original equipment?
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AlphaPilotFlyer said:
It’s not that difficult to lower costs and many have come up with viable solutions but shut down by FAA anti GA culture at the top.

Our experimental c172 cost just over $22/hr to fly and we had a high schooler go from zero to PPL for about $3,400 all inclusive (plane, gas, CFI, check ride fee)….. another trained and passed his commercial for a fraction of the cost compared to renting or owning a c172 with original engine. And we are just 4 guys self funding the project. There were plenty of small companies that could have made a real change if not for FAA culture. So, there’s no reason to accept the high cost of flying simple legacy aircraft other than no alternatives. Lowering cost is only way to bring more pilots and increase influence.
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A converted experimental Cessna 172 that costs 22$ an hour to operate?
Gas alone, even mogas: $2.25 * 7gal/hr = $15.75/hr
So collectively the rest of: the maintenance, oil, storage, insurance, databases, financing cost/purchase cost, company/club overhead, etc amortizes at a mere ~$6.25/hr?
Care to share a further breakdown of those expenses? Even if you're repairing stuff yourself and count that time as being worth 0$ in costs, and using every bit of latitude in being experimental to install inexpensive parts, personally I still see no way to make that math possible.

Maybe from a cash flow POV if you're only charging people for the gas consumed, and you were sipping mogas, you could make that work. But as an owner I don't see any way to properly account for costs and operate an aircraft at a break even rate of $22/hr.

To illustrate my perspective... in 2019 I trained in a Remos GX LSA that burned 4-6gph of mogas. But even buying block rates and getting a discount, the rental rate was still about $110/hr. Hangars, maintenance, insurance, biz overhead, etc. Costs money.
And the flight school owner wasn't exactly getting rich. CFI was ~$55/h. DPE was $5-600. Supplies, from sectionals to AF/D copy to online ground school (sportys) were a few hundred bucks. All gnd school online, only paid for a handful of ground hours from instructor and for their time during mock checkride oral exam. I would have passed the $3400 mark that your student got their PPL for by about the 20h half-way point of training. That assumes finishing at 40h which is far from certain for each student.

From what I've seen, things have only gotten more expensive since then.
 
AlphaPilotFlyer said:
…. Our experimental c172 cost just over $22/hr to fly … cheapest method to get a PPL thru CFI…
1. Share a simple experimental aircraft that can burn car gas….
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Acquisition cost, insurance, and first annual usually negate cost savings, but most folks I know wouldn’t recommend someone attempt to learn to fly and learn to be an owner simultaneously.

We’ve operated a 172 that was paid off 15+ years ago and have the financials to back up what my partnership’s costs have been for that same time. We need $24/hr just to amortize the overhaul fund and we operate on a dry rate basis.

Hour 1 fixed costs run out to $1000/year per partner and our insurer prohibits initial instruction (policy endorsement requires a PPL, giving us a substantial discount).

I’m glad you’ve got an n of 1 that’s been economical when you factor out fixed costs, but that model doesn’t work if scaled.
 
today?

lessee..... It's gonna take 50-65 hrs depending if you start and stop and deal with weather. Renting a 172 with an instructor is ~ $200/hr. So the maths takes us to $10,000-$15,000. Double that for the instrument rating....a few more for the commercial...few more for the CFI and multi.....and you'll have $50,000-100,000 in flying before you'll be able to earn a living.
 
nrpetersen said:
In May 1963 my ASEL private license total cost was $590. Nearly new C150 rental was $10, C172 was 15$, and a Mooney S21 was $20/hr. All were with fuel included. I don't recall for sure if PVT check ride $$ was included.
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1974, New C-150 Commuter II, $18/hr wet. Instructor was about $12/hr if I remember correctly.
 
I've seen some posts talking about hours.. it's not just the cost per hour, its the drastic increase in the number of hours needed.
FAA minimum per Part 61 is 40hrs.
Mid '70s, most students were taking Private Pilot check rides at 45-50hrs.
Around 2000-2005, the average private pilot candidate was about 70-75hrs of instruction.
Now I am seeing 80-100 hrs before a check ride.

I will agree that a lot of those hours are "relearning" due to students starting, stopping, and restarting their training, sometimes multiple restarts before they finally complete. I am also seeing a lot of "ground idle" time waiting for taxi instructions, crossing runways, or waiting on the hold line for takeoff, then the long flight to a practice area that is not over the city, and the long flight back. A lot of unproductive hours in that scenario.

It does not pay to get your first rating in a Cirru$, best to find that beat up C-150/172 or Piper Warrior.
 
My son is going through this. C172 $170 wet Instruction is $60 hr. Part 141 school. He’s doing it part 61. Price sheet for PPL 40 hours of flight is 11K. If he passes at 15K all in I’ll be happy.
 
pfarber said:
Most CFIs are garbage and the real reason students run out of money is because CFI are not good teachers. I had no less than 8 CFIs in my logbook before I found someone worth a damn.

"A&P which seem to also be in short supply." Because GA AnP pay is garbage. Shops are scared to raise rates, yet shop owners complain they can't get AnPs. I'm close to $40/hr at a regional, have a 401k, sick time, PTO, flight privileges, bonus pay, uniform allowance.... what's a GA shop gonna offer other than dayshift???
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That's crossed my mind as well. My local tire shop charges $150 an hour for brakes, struts, what not. My A&P charges $100 an hour. Why?? And he's always behind. Raise rates so you can hire more people. And yes, that means I'll pay more - which I don't want to do. But I'll pay it.
 
WDD said:
That's crossed my mind as well. My local tire shop charges $150 an hour for brakes, struts, what not. My A&P charges $100 an hour. Why?? And he's always behind. Raise rates so you can hire more people. And yes, that means I'll pay more - which I don't want to do. But I'll pay it.
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The problem is finding the balance.

Increasing prices will allow them to hire/keep more mechanics, but there’s going to be some attrition of customers at the same time. And if they have enough mechanics to cover everything that comes in the door today, what happens during the next economic downturn when people cut back on their airplane usage and maintenance?
 
Balance is needed - but IMHO they are not balanced. Too much work and can’t pay people to do the work. If we have an economic downturn? It’s the world we live in. Pilots get furloughed, etc. Not being successful when you can because things might get harder in the future isn’t a good way to run a business.
 
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WDD said:
My local tire shop charges $150 an hour for brakes, struts, what not. My A&P charges $100 an hour. Why??
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There’s no real comparison on many levels as to why. They are two completely different dynamics even though they both deal with maintenance. Aircraft shop rates have increased over the last 10 years, but charging more doesn’t necessarily fix any of the problems you are seeing. For example, shop work volume: how many brake jobs, tire changes, etc are performed in the tire shop per week vs how many aircraft are returned to service in that same week?

WDD said:
And he's always behind. Raise rates so you can hire more people.
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And hiring more mechanics also doesn’t necessarily fix things either especially if the only available mechanics in the area are right out of school. For example, most kids out of high school auto class can change a tire and replace brakes vs how many A&P school graduates meet the experience requirements of 65.81 or can perform a 100 hr inspection adequately?

What has happened over the past 10-15 years is the accelerated reduction in A&P numbers and shops that service the Part 91 recreational fleet. So the mx network that is left has become even fuller and in some cases overbooked. Plus its simple economics, no Part 91 shop can compete with Part 135/121 ops when it comes to hiring mechanics regardless of what they could offer in wage alone.

But the biggest A&P problem has zero to do with shop rate or employee numbers. The average A&P age is pushing 54 as I recall, with 20% of working A&Ps between 63-65 years of age. Do the math. This age issue has had the whole industry concerned for quite some time. So IMO the problem at the Part 91 level will remain and probably get worse in some locations until 1) enough new A&Ps enter the industry to offset the increasing retirements of existing A&Ps, 2) see a greater number of young people enter A&P school, and 3) the hope MOSAIC will continue to expand its maintenance performance proposals.
 
WDD said:
Balance is needed - but IMHO they are not balanced. Too much work and can’t pay people to do the work. If we have an economic downturn? It’s the world we live in. Pilots get furloughed, etc. Not being successful when you can because things might get harder in the future isn’t a good way to run a business.
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Different people measure success in different ways.
 
I suppose. But success as defined at least in part as financially solvent is a mandatory.
 
bonefishpete said:
My son is going through this. C172 $170 wet Instruction is $60 hr. Part 141 school. He’s doing it part 61. Price sheet for PPL 40 hours of flight is 11K. If he passes at 15K all in I’ll be happy.
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I have been an instructor since 2001. I can't remember anyone doing it in 40 hours. But of course, we try to exceed the minimums, not to make more money, but to make better pilots.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I have been an instructor since 2001. I can't remember anyone doing it in 40 hours. But of course, we try to exceed the minimums, not to make more money, but to make better pilots.
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Yes that's just what the info sheet showed. Part 141 shows 35 hours but I doubt few hit that number. I'd be happy at 75 hours or so flight time.
 
WDD said:
I suppose. But success as defined at least in part as financially solvent is a mandatory.
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You gave no indication that they weren’t paying the rent or their employees, so I’d assume they’re financially solvent.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I have been an instructor since 2001. I can't remember anyone doing it in 40 hours. But of course, we try to exceed the minimums, not to make more money, but to make better pilots.
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Back when I did my PPL in 1979 the average was about 65 hours.

I was paying $30 wet for a Grumman Tiger. Or $34 for the newer one. Instructor was $9 per hour.
 
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