Antonov An-2 crash

[Tarheelpilot]

An-2 is a pretty good ag plane among other roles it does. What I was saying is that in the 80’s when An-3 came out, its pilots were complaining that it couldn’t be flown in the same manner as An-2 due to, in part, the turbine lag they experience. Whether that was BS, or lack of training, or a crappy Russian turbine engine at the time, I don’t know.

I’m not arguing that turbines make bad ag planes. I’m simply stating that at that time that turbine made that plane not as desirable for those pilots. According to what I read at that time(which could also be BS).

Ahh

I would guess their issue with the turbine was lag on approaches working the back side of power curve. Especially if the turbine they were running had a free power turbine like the pt-6. They are very laggy. During AG ops the power is not moved around a lot so the lag isn’t an issue.

 

[JimNtexas]

McDonnell Douglas used to show all mechanic new hires a short clip of an F-4 that crashed due to a box wrench left in the controls. It took off normally, then pitched up at a steep angle. Both the pilot and GIB ejected safely and the plane stalled and crashed spectacularly. The fact that this AN-2 increased its pitch radically may indicate something was wrong with the flight controls. Too bad, nice Biplane.

That was my old squadron, 90FS in the Phillipines in the early 80s! A wrench had been glued into the tailcone with anticorrosion paint.

In the F-4 we did full aft stick takeoffs. On this flight the wrench fell into the elevator controls during the takeoff role, jamming the elevator full nose up. The Jet went straight up and crashed right in front of a C-5.

When the crew ejected the backseater’s rocket motor did not fire, but he tumbled out as the plane inverted. He got one swing and hit the ground hard. He was in a huge cast for months.

 

[Brad Smith]

That was my old squadron, 90FS in the Phillipines in the early 80s! A wrench had been glued into the tailcone with anticorrosion paint.

In the F-4 we did full aft stick takeoffs. On this flight the wrench fell into the elevator controls during the takeoff role, jamming the elevator full nose up. The Jet went straight up and crashed right in front of a C-5.

When the crew ejected the backseater’s rocket motor did not fire, but he tumbled out as the plane inverted. He got one swing and hit the ground hard. He was in a huge cast for months.

I was hired at McDonnell Douglas in 1986 and saw many issues with tools and other items inadvertently left on the plane. The last plane I worked on was the C-17 and remember a plant wide stand down due to a 5/16 wrench falling from the ceiling on a test flight. Crew was not happy. Boeing went to a central shadow toolbox system where mechanics checked out tools and had to return them at the end of the day. God help those mechanics that couldn’t find a tool at quitting time. We ALL had to search the plane until the missing tool showed up.

 

[denverpilot]

If you watch carefully and listen, you can see and hear the flaps being retracted as the nose comes up. Pilot pulled too much transitioning, perhaps also with engine power falling off or the pilot pulling it back for some unknown reason.

Annnnd stall/spin. Looks like the engine turns the conventional direction, too. Left spinny spin spinning we will go...

More right rudder. Don’t pull the nose up that much while retracting flaps. Pay attention to airspeed.

Probably loaded too far aft, too.

 

[CSairplane]

There was an AN-2 at Richmond Airport (08R) Rhode Island. Looked like it was trucked in, and there was a hangar for it under construction nearby. Looks like a restoration was being contemplated. I have no idea if it was finished (either the hangar or the restoration). Anyone know further details?

-Skip

edit: restoration probably not completed. Google Maps Images shows the hangar still a steel frame and the AN-2 isn’t there. . -Skip

The restoration was not completed but the hanger was. The aircraft was sold and is now under restoration according to what I'm told. You are correct that it was trucked in to that airport but there is much more to the story.

That aircraft originally was an eastern European and Soviet bird, a female defector pilot flew went through the Arctic to America. The aircraft was eventually used as part of the stealth program in the 1970s. It was bought by a local Rhode Islander as part of a nonprofit exhibition aircraft. The hanger was actually one of two outlying state owned hangers for two DeHaviland Beaver amphib aircraft that were owned by the state for monitoring our lakes and ponds. The individual was given one of the hangers but he had to truck it out of the swampy area. The Antonov was flown from out west somewhere and landed at Quonset under a ferry permit. The fabric was quite deteriorated and they continued to repair it along the way with duct tape. Only after they got to Rhode Island they found out the duct tape company had a "most unique usage contest" that paid something like $50,000, but they were beyond the submission deadline. They were told they were definitely have won! Anyway, the wings were removed and it was indeed trucked from Quonset to where you saw it, after removing the wings, was towed by the tail with an old diesel dump truck. The driver of the truck was a Vietnam veteran pilot with thousands of hours by the way. He said he only went by one cop, who pulled out followed him for a bit and pulled right back off the road again "no way too close to the end of my shift" kind of thing! Anyway it's very cool that that aircraft will be flying again.

 

[bonefishpete]

From what I remember they can’t be certified due to the old Cold War FAA rules that no Soviet aircraft can ever be certified in the US. Interesting aircraft, which has been revived with a new turboprop version.

Fun Fact: a pair of Hueys had an air to air kill of one of these beasts in Nam, using their door guns.

I believe Air America helicopters didn’t have door guns. They were civilian. Crew chief with AK47 if I remember the painting of it.
Lima Site 85

 

[Skip Miller]

… Anyway it's very cool that that aircraft will be flying again.

Very cool indeed. Amazing to see activity on a thread coming on five years since my last post. Thanks for the update!

-Skip

 

[Dana]

The aircraft was sold and is now under restoration according to what I'm told.

Is it still at Richmond?

 

[hindsight2020]

5+ year AOG. POA goes "dang that's really good, Lycoming takes longer".

We're gonna need a bigger oven, these geese are getting oversized.

P.S. I'm just here for the necroooooooooo

 

[Pinecone]

I flew the AN-2 in Ukraine in 1996. It was part of a trip to also fly other Soviet aircraft. Another guy on the trip, who also flew the AN-2, ended up buying one.

They were even used in scheduled air carrier flying by Aeroflot.

The reason they are not able to be standard category in the US is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. The REAL reason was that Cessna saw themselves loosing the parachute jump market to them. Cheap, cheap to fly, carry a lot of jumpers, IMPOSSIBLE for jumper to hit the tail. Perfect. It should be, it was designed to insert Spetnez teams via parachute.

 

[Bell206]

The reason they are not able to be standard category in the US is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.

Interesting. Have you personally tried to get a standard AWC for an AN2 or other "eastern bloc" aircraft? Curious to know what mumbo jumbo you're referring to.

 

[flyingron]

According to that Wikipedia article, it's good at flying slow.

Which is important, because it can't fly fast.

 

[Ashara Keliyn]

The stall speed is reportedly around 30 knots, with full control. 35 knots headwind and you're flying backwards. In previous life flew as a passenger on An2 in the majestic Caucasus mountains...

 

[Flyhound]

There were 2 AN-2s at the High Sierra fly-in in 2019. One of them was being worked on the whole time it was there. Old planes with radial engines are huge time suckers. Still, they can be a true flying vacation home. They have a cavernous interior if you don't mind the sloping floor. I guess a tailwheel jack could level things out...

 

[Pinecone]

Interesting. Have you personally tried to get a standard AWC for an AN2 or other "eastern bloc" aircraft? Curious to know what mumbo jumbo you're referring to.

There are sorts of official reasons. But the behind the scenes, as I was told back in the 90s, was that Cessna pushed to keep the Experimental to not take over the drop zone market.

Some clubs did use them. It was legal as no one paid for the flight, the club ran the airplane and members got to take flights.

 

[Pinecone]

The stall speed is reportedly around 30 knots, with full control. 35 knots headwind and you're flying backwards. In previous life flew as a passenger on An2 in the majestic Caucasus mountains...

When I flew one, it was light and we were off the ground with the airspeed indicator not yet alive. Min reading was 50 KPH, which is something like 23 KIAS.

Was flying right seat in my friend's AN-2 at a airshow, doing VIP rides. When we did one pass down the runway the tower was amazed, they showed a 44 knot ground speed. I asked if they wanted to see a LOW speed pass.

 

[Bell206]

There are sorts of official reasons. But the behind the scenes, as I was told back in the 90s, was that Cessna pushed to keep the Experimental to not take over the drop zone market.

Well I can tell you with certainty there is no path to a standard AWC for either a Russian or Polish built AN-2. And given the Polish version is the only one that could have a chance, you can thank PZL for that and not the FAA. Even the EASA wouldn’t elevate the AN-2 past an Annex II aircraft which puts the airworthiness standards under the State of Origin.

We were trying only for a Restricted class certificate on the AN and a Kamov 32 helicopter and ran into the same issues with no joy. The Cessna, or Piper, or Mooney jumper or aerial work angle was more an urban legend pushed by those who couldn’t make their millions selling cheap Bloc country aircraft. The AN-2 is a bull of an aircraft with no equal and the big money was to be in utility work and not the niche jumper market at the time.

 

[AV8R_87]

The REAL reason was that Cessna saw themselves loosing the parachute jump market to them. Cheap, cheap to fly, carry a lot of jumpers, IMPOSSIBLE for jumper to hit the tail.

Even countries in the Eastern bloc that used to use them for skydiving are switching to Caravans. With the cost of labor and fuel going up, they're not that cheap to operate anymore.

The stall speed is reportedly around 30 knots, with full control. 35 knots headwind and you're flying backwards.

I have a friend who used to fly them. He says there was no published stall speed, with the leading edge slats deployed and control column full aft if would gently go down at a safe vertical speed. Apparently that's what the "engine failure in IMC" emergency procedure instructed you to do.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Russia

Russia

Russia

Russia

Russia

Russia

It ain't Russian, it's Ukrainian.

It still follows the old rule about being ugly and weird, though.

 

[Bell206]

It ain't Russian, it's Ukrainian.

FYI: While the Antonov Design Bureau did move to Ukraine, from a certification standpoint the AN-2 are considered Russian or USSR aircraft. There were also a number of AN-2s produced in Mother Russia when the Kiev production was stopped. Even quite a few of the Polish PZL AN-2s fall under the same designation until the wall fell and the Polish ULC and PZL developed their own national TC. This is partly the reason no AN-2 can meet ICAO requirements in a number of member countries.