Learjet crater made

[MidwestBob1389]

A few photos and videos are popping up about the crater made by this plane, looking way too big for something that small. Can anyone with experience say that for sure? It is a massive hole and just kind of mind blowing that that plane could do that much damage!?
Thank you kindly!

 

[Racerx]

Take off the tin foil.

 

[Tools]

F = mA

LOTS of A, fair amount of m.

 

[Hang 4]

I was going to say just the opposite, it seemed surprisingly small.

 

[Dana]

F = mA

LOTS of A, fair amount of m.

I think it's more a matter of ½mV² in this case. Lots of V.

 

[Bill]

And full fuel.

 

[PaulS]

I think it's more a matter of ½mV² in this case. Lots of V.

The acceleration is really deceleration that is nearly instantaneous.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

how many souls are in that hole?

 

[DaleB]

how many souls are in that hole?

None. They left.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

It is possible that the impact hit a natural gas line.

 

[WBI Flyer]

Physics be physicing. All the time. Above assessments referencing such are the answers you seek.

 

[Mikey52]

Having a hard time putting in the formula for kinetic energy, but the velocity squared part puts it pretty high in this instance.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Most likely had chemtrail cargo, to explain unexpected crater. (and fulfill any conspiracy theory desires)

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Juan Valdez?

 

[Mikey52]

Just guessing on speed and mass. Max wt of 21,000 lbs according to internet.

 

[hindsight2020]

and as was mentioned before, KE doesn't account for the blast force equivalent of the fuel under explosive overpressure, which needs to be added to the sum. And that's not even optimized as the tanks weren't built as fuzed bombs.

That crater is pretty small from a weaponeering pov. That's a good thing, the amount of energy contained in that missile could make for a whole lot more collateral damage if configured for purpose. Even a slightly shallower impact angle would have spelled carnage for bystanders: higher, oblongated frag radius, smaller penetration depth; think anti-personnel column, napalm pods et al.

When it comes to surviving this life to "old" age, not trying to gratuitously stoke nihilistic utterings, but yea, I'll always go with better lucky than good.

 

[3393RP]

I think it's more a matter of ½mV² in this case. Lots of V.

I did the calcs assuming 6700 kgs weight and 120 m/s speed, and came up with 60+ Mj.

That's about the same as a 15 kg TNT explosion.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

they apparently recovered the black box....8' in that hole. I suppose the rest of the plane is further down in that pit.

 

[MidwestBob1389]

Take off the tin foil.

I was just asking a question bud. I haven't seen too many planes explode into concrete... step off your high horse Sally

 

[WBI Flyer]

Just guessing on speed and mass. Max wt of 21,000 lbs according to internet.

so would I be wrong in calculating ~ 34.4lbs of TNT? - keeping in mind that that is just the energy released on deceleration of the mass. That does not take into account jet fuel, etc.

^^ because we are nerds.

A separate but far more important heavy heart for families and loved ones whose loss is far beyond any measurement.

 

[3393RP]

so would I be wrong in calculating ~ 34.4lbs of TNT? - keeping in mind that that is just the energy released on deceleration of the mass. That does not take into account jet fuel, etc.

^^ because we are nerds.

A separate but far more important heavy heart for families and loved ones whose loss is far beyond any measurement.

Nope. Your calc of 34.4 lbs is close to mine of 15 kg. That's 32 lbs.

 

[Crabbyflier]

Nope. Your calc of 34.4 lbs is close to mine of 15 kg. That's 32 lbs.

Since you guys are being nerds I"ll offer a couple of thoughts. 1. That hole is a lot bigger that 32 pounds of TNT. I'd guess more like 250 pounds, maybe 500. Really depends on the material. That leads me to 2. Consider redoing your energy math with a much higher velocity. I think the airspeed, as opposed to groundspeed, was above 300 mph. With the V squared that makes a big difference.

 

[Omalley1537]

I was just asking a question bud. I haven't seen too many planes explode into concrete... step off your high horse Sally

The Galloping Ghost made a fairly large crater as well, and there was no explosion (thank goodness, or I wouldn’t be posting this).

 

[kmacht]

Make sure you are looking at the real thing. There are many fake photos that are supposed to be the crater making the rounds on the internet.

 

[Mikey52]

I helped a farmer did a ditch one time. Had a drill go down 4 ft in ground. Cut a stick of dynamite into 1/3 and push into ground. Took about 4 hours to set dynamite. When detonated, he had a beautiful V shaped ditch 300 ft long about 6-7 feet deep. 4 hours prep and 1/4 second to dig that ditch.

Just don't put a stick under a cast iron tub to see how high it will go!

 

[3393RP]

Since you guys are being nerds I"ll offer a couple of thoughts. 1. That hole is a lot bigger that 32 pounds of TNT. I'd guess more like 250 pounds, maybe 500. Really depends on the material. That leads me to 2. Consider redoing your energy math with a much higher velocity. I think the airspeed, as opposed to groundspeed, was above 300 mph. With the V squared that makes a big difference.

It's an energy equivalent. The calculation doesn't mean 32 lbs of TNT would make the same sized crater, and as @WBI Flyer pointed out, it doesn't quantify the effects of the fuel explosion, which were considerable. The fuel quantity was probably around 550 gallons.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Since you guys are being nerds I"ll offer a couple of thoughts. 1. That hole is a lot bigger that 32 pounds of TNT. I'd guess more like 250 pounds, maybe 500. Really depends on the material. That leads me to 2. Consider redoing your energy math with a much higher velocity. I think the airspeed, as opposed to groundspeed, was above 300 mph. With the V squared that makes a big difference.

I think it's bigger because if you just detonated 32 pounds of TNT on the ground, the energy of the blast will go in all directions, whereas with this one it was all going the same direction.

 

[martym]

I did the calcs assuming 6700 kgs weight and 120 m/s speed, and came up with 60+ Mj.

That's about the same as a 15 kg TNT explosion.

The Longhorn would have been around 20,000 lbs at takeoff or ~9000 kg's
And I'd bump the impact velocity up to 150 m/s/ or ~500 ft per sec.

Either way yup, quite an explosion. The debris field is unbelievable.

 

[3393RP]

The Longhorn would have been around 20,000 lbs at takeoff or ~9000 kg's
And I'd bump the impact velocity up to 150 m/s/ or ~500 ft per sec.

Either way yup, quite an explosion. The debris field is unbelievable.

This is why I shouldn't do math. I forgot to add the fuel weight to my numbers, which would have made the total 18,425 lbs. I was also conservative on the speed, because I didn't know the overcast ceiling at the crash site and wasn't confident on the elapsed time between the jet clearing it and the impact.

 

[MidwestBob1389]

It is possible that the impact hit a natural gas line.

Did even think about them buried treasures!

 

[ColinD]

Most likely had chemtrail cargo, to explain unexpected crater. (and fulfill any conspiracy theory desires)

Relevant XKCD

 

[Roller]

You should see the damage a little 1/3of a inch thick bullet can do relative to its size


Side note you do know birds arnt real right?

 

[Pinecone]

A few photos and videos are popping up about the crater made by this plane, looking way too big for something that small. Can anyone with experience say that for sure? It is a massive hole and just kind of mind blowing that that plane could do that much damage!?
Thank you kindly!

E = 1/2M(V^2)

So double the speed, FOUR TIMES the energy.

FYI max gross take off weight is 21,500 pounds.

 

[MidwestBob1389]

And I thought matching at work sucked! Look at you guys with your formulas and what have ya! Tha k you all for the i excellent information.. and math class! I really wasn't being a conspiracy nut.. was just curious. Only seen the 9/11 plane crashes, and now all of sudden it seems a plane is going down daily, or at least the news is actually reporting them, now that a big one went down. Prayers to all those, and their family, that were involved..

 

[David7700]

And I thought matching at work sucked! Look at you guys with your formulas and what have ya! Tha k you all for the i excellent information.. and math class! I really wasn't being a conspiracy nut.. was just curious. Only seen the 9/11 plane crashes, and now all of sudden it seems a plane is going down daily, or at least the news is actually reporting them, now that a big one went down. Prayers to all those, and their family, that were involved..

I have sent a link to the NTSB aviation accident database monthly index to numerous friends after the second (Lear) recent crash. It was eye opening to them to see the number and frequency of accidents, incidents, injuries, and fatalities.As we know, there had not been a domestic US commercial airline since Colgan 3407 2/12/09 prior to American Airlines/PSA 5342.

NTSB - Aviation Accidents - Index of Months

www.ntsb.gov

Heck, looking at it just now, I had no idea there was a fatal near me in Charlottesville 1/25/25.