How long have you been using an iOS or Android EFB?

[pilotmandan]

Started around 13 with my personal android tablet and GP. New job provided an iPad with FF account. Have used FF since then. Current company provides iPad, but no EFB subscription. The official company EFB is FltPlanGo, which I have never had good experience with, so I pay for FF out of pocket.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The official company EFB is FltPlanGo,

I'm guessing that's a carry-over from earlier times when they used the website. I think it's also the reason Garmin bought FltPlan.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The concept of “packing” for a trip is one thing I think foreflight got wrong.

It kinda sounds like everyone is doing something similar... So how would you have it work?

All "Packing" is, is telling the EFB "Hey, I'm about to go flying! Go grab the latest stuff I might need because you're about to not have an Internet connection."

It grabs any charts you don't already have for areas you're going to fly in, grabs the latest weather, NOTAMs, and fuel prices, and off you go. I don't understand why that's bad? Unless you think it should just be constantly downloading everything in the background repeatedly until it loses Internet?

FlyQ has a feature like that. Double check everything is current and that your flight plan didn't stray into an area or state that you haven't downloaded. I mainly use that on long cross countries. I fly with people that use foreflight and when shooting an approach at some local airport we didn't originally plan for they say, "I didn't load that approach" or "I didn't pack that approach".
Me: "What?? Why not? Did you not download the IFR charts and plates for the state?"
Them: "Well yea, but I still need to load them for a flight."
That doesn't make sense. With FlyQ or Avare, once I have that state downloaded, I can reference all the charts and plates for that region in flight without having to pack anything or load individual plates. Maybe they are using foreflight incorrectly. I haven't used foreflight in 8 years.

Definitely user error. Once you have a state downloaded, it's downloaded. It's possible that they don't have "Terminal Procedures" turned on in the Data settings for their downloads and they're not actually downloading what they think they are.

Agreed. They don't know how to use it correctly. But I have definitely seen some odd user practices, as I'm sure you have too. One is that some pilots will save all the charts for common airports in the Plates folder*. They then use just those charts for a while, and when we go someplace new, "oh, I don't think I have that approach downloaded" because they don't remember or realize that the whole state is actually downloaded.

* They do this, I believe, as a way to "quickly" find the charts they use most often, but I've seen it become comical when they get out of hand and then have to comb through 50 approach charts searching for the one we're flying, when they could just go to "airport", "procedures".

The easiest way to have things at hand, IMO, is to hit the "Send To" button from either Maps or Flights and hit Plates. That will automatically create a smart binder with all of the airport diagrams, departures, arrivals, and approaches for the departure and destination airports, and the alternate too if you sent it from Flights. It's not as good for training flights, where Airport-Procedures is probably the quickest way.

It's possible! I definitely remember it being the smallest possible booth, and I laugh when I see what they're renting these days. I do remember Tyson was there, and probably Jason as well.

Heh... Yes, Jason and Jason were there - Jason Miller and Jason Miller.

See, there's Jason Miller the ForeFlight cofounder, but at the time aviation podcasts were getting to be pretty popular (ahem) and there's one that's still around called The Finer Points, done by a career CFI named... Jason Miller. And even then, ForeFlight was already sponsoring The Finer Points so a lot of people confused the Jason Millers and even thought they were just one person.

When they finally met in person, one turns to the other and says "I guess I'll have to be Jason *Andrew* Miller" and the other says "you have GOT to be kidding me." Yeah, they have the same middle name too.

Well, podcaster Jason was one of the other people they called in to help at the booth that week, and of course cofounder Jason was there too. Podcaster Jason didn't want to be confused for cofounder Jason, so instead of writing "Jason Miller" on his name tag, he wrote "TO-JAM".

Our own @Greg Bockelman was the only person who got what it meant: The Other Jason Andrew Miller.

We have a GTN650 and GTX345 in our 172 and there’s one plus a 430w the in the 182 I fly, too.

Never have connected an EFB to either. Zero importance to me at all.

You're missing out on some very useful functionality.

 

[iamtheari]

Really?? I have used that site to file all of my flight plans for years, because it takes me about 14 seconds to do it. (shrug)

That said, I'm talking strictly about filing. I do my flight planning elsewhere.

I don't doubt that FltPlan is a great way to file a flight plan. But, for a product named “flight plan,” it does remarkably little to help plan a flight. That's where Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight make their $100-200/year from individual pilots. I'm sure that I could learn an efficient workflow to accomplish most of the same with FltPlan.com and FltPlan Go, thus my comment about remedial training. And I can tell that it was made for professional pilots, among whom it apparently remains popular. For now, I'm happy paying the piper for the easier, all-in-one solutions to plan and execute my flights.

 

[Jim_R]

I don't doubt that FltPlan is a great way to file a flight plan. But, for a product named “flight plan,” it does remarkably little to help plan a flight.

I guess I've always thought of "flight plan filing" and "flight planning" as two utterly different and distinct activities, so it's never felt strange to me to use different tools for the two tasks. Kind of like using a chef's knife to slice and a power driver to turn a screw, rather than trying to use an all-in-one Swiss army knife to do those things.

But maybe it only feels normal/"good" because I grew up using a variety of tools to do my flight planning, and using one more tool to actually file the plan at the end was no big deal. Maybe an all-in-one solution really would be "better".

So maybe I'm like you and just stuck in my own workflow and reluctant to try anything new because it's comfortable and it works for me, and it would take some effort to establish a new process. (shrug)

 

[TCABM]

It kinda sounds like everyone is doing something similar... So how would you have it work?

Just do it. There’s no need for me to tell it to give me all the stuff I might need.

…You're missing out on some very useful functionality.

Ok, for kicks and grins, I downloaded GP on an android tablet and my iphone. I’ll solely use this stuff connected to my GTX/GTN thru the end of the trial period and report back.

So far I can tell what I would find most useful isn’t a feature on android. I can do this on iOS:

No such capability with the android version. In and of itself, that’s a non-starter, but I’ll take your word that everything else that panel connectivity will bring me will overcome the inability to load a procedure to the flight plan in GP for android.

I’d do the same with FF, but alas, no android version so no dice.

 

[RussR]

I guess I've always thought of "flight plan filing" and "flight planning" as two utterly different and distinct activities, so it's never felt strange to me to use different tools for the two tasks. Kind of like using a chef's knife to slice and a power driver to turn a screw, rather than trying to use an all-in-one Swiss army knife to do those things.

But maybe it only feels normal/"good" because I grew up using a variety of tools to do my flight planning, and using one more tool to actually file the plan at the end was no big deal. Maybe an all-in-one solution really would be "better".

So maybe I'm like you and just stuck in my own workflow and reluctant to try anything new because it's comfortable and it works for me, and it would take some effort to establish a new process. (shrug)

That's an interesting perspective. Because to do flight planning, you have to enter most if not quite all of the same information you will then need to enter to file your flight plan. On a fully-featured EFB, you do your flight planning, and then it's typically about one button press to file, since all the information is already there.

I have to do the same thing as you do, at work, but not by choice. There I do most of my weather/NOTAM/airfield status/etc. stuff on Foreflight, because of its ease of use. But then we're required to file though ARINCDirect's website. Now, ARINCDirect has a lot of capabilities, but user-friendly it is not. If I was allowed to just file straight from Foreflight I would start doing that in a heartbeat.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Well, podcaster Jason was one of the other people they called in to help at the booth that week, and of course cofounder Jason was there too. Podcaster Jason didn't want to be confused for cofounder Jason, so instead of writing "Jason Miller" on his name tag, he wrote "TO-JAM".

Our own @Greg Bockelman was the only person who got what it meant: The Other Jason Andrew Miller.

@flyingcheesehead LMAO. I remember that. When I made that comment, it seemed like you didn’t believe me.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I guess I've always thought of "flight plan filing" and "flight planning" as two utterly different and distinct activities, so it's never felt strange to me to use different tools for the two tasks. Kind of like using a chef's knife to slice and a power driver to turn a screw, rather than trying to use an all-in-one Swiss army knife to do those things.

But maybe it only feels normal/"good" because I grew up using a variety of tools to do my flight planning, and using one more tool to actually file the plan at the end was no big deal. Maybe an all-in-one solution really would be "better".

So maybe I'm like you and just stuck in my own workflow and reluctant to try anything new because it's comfortable and it works for me, and it would take some effort to establish a new process. (shrug)

In the bad old days before EFBs, this was pretty common. I remember being really happy when my CFI put together a website that brought together a whole bunch of useful weather products on one page, as it made getting a decent picture of the weather far quicker and easier.

Of course, we used to "plan" the flight using a variety of sources and then we all filed via a phone call to FSS, so there's another thing that has changed quite a bit.

But now, it's definitely fastest and easiest to use an EFB. I can fill in my departure and destination, see the weather graphically with my route depicted on the same map, rubber-band the route around if necessary, look for good fuel prices along the way, file with just a couple of button pushes, gather all of the plates I'll need with a couple more, shoot the flight plan up to my panel avionics, and be on my way far faster than back in the day yet also having a much better picture of what the flight will be like.

Then, in flight, instead of tuning one frequency on the com and another on the nav, making a radio call and being told that there's a storm 30 miles northwest of some VOR I've never heard of moving toward my flight path, I can see it on a screen with radar that's been updated recently.

Learning to use an EFB to its fullest potential makes flights faster, easier, and much safer.

I have to do the same thing as you do, at work, but not by choice. There I do most of my weather/NOTAM/airfield status/etc. stuff on Foreflight, because of its ease of use. But then we're required to file though ARINCDirect's website. Now, ARINCDirect has a lot of capabilities, but user-friendly it is not. If I was allowed to just file straight from Foreflight I would start doing that in a heartbeat.

Why are you required to file there?

 

[Jim_R]

That's an interesting perspective. Because to do flight planning, you have to enter most if not quite all of the same information you will then need to enter to file your flight plan.

Not in my experience, but maybe we care about different details.

My flight planning often starts several days before I fly, using the same weather sites anyone would use for general ideas of weather patterns: Wunderground, Windy, etc. That doesn't involve anything I'd put in a flight plan.

Starting a couple days before I fly, I check Weathermeister a few times (yeah, I know--how '90s of me!) and punch in my origin and destination airports. This is one source I use to consider what altitude I'll select, as well as review TAFs, NOTAMs, graphical aviation weather products, etc. But I'm not inputting detailed routing (SIDs/STARs/etc.), just the airports and departure time. Since it has my aircraft profile including performance and fuel consumption data, that's not an extra step.

About a day before I fly I use fltplan.com to get an idea of the routing I should expect. It also gives a second opinion on winds for altitude selection. Here, I have to punch in all the deets for my flight plan, but most of it is pre-populated from my profile, and the stuff that isn't is often the same (I usually fly solo, with full tanks, on days where an alternate isn't required), and I usually click a button to pick the route FP.com says ATC is likely to give m anyway, so it takes about 10-15 seconds to fill out the form. I might only be checking route/winds when I first build the plan, in which case I save the plan and come back later to click the button to actually file.

A glaring omission here is that my EFB doesn't make an appearance (iFlyEFB). I developed this flow years ago when iFly was mostly just a set of georeferenced charts and didn't include flight planning features. When flight planning features were first added, they were not as good as the tools I was used to. Since then iFly's flight planning features have improved, but I don't always have iFly with me when I want to do some preliminary planning (or rather, I only have it on my phone and would prefer to use a larger screen), so I still continue to mostly use the flow I'm comfortable with instead of my EFB. I do now use the EFB toward the very end as a third check on winds/altitude selection, mostly as a sanity check for the choice I've already made using the other two tools.

As a result, I do have to duplicate the flight plan I entered/filed via FP.com into my EFB. However, since that usually only takes 15-30 seconds, I don't see that as a significant burden.

 

[Dave Theisen]

This should probably be on the “Back in my day” thread, but at one time I could file a flight plan over the phone with FSS giving all the required information in the right order off the top of my head.

 

[Jim_R]

But now, it's definitely fastest and easiest to use an EFB. I can fill in my departure and destination, see the weather graphically with my route depicted on the same map, rubber-band the route around if necessary,

Though I always fly IFR, I rarely fly when there's weather around that requires avoidance. I'm also not rubber-banding anything prior to takeoff.

look for good fuel prices along the way,

I rarely require fuel stops, but I do use my EFB for that when I do.

file with just a couple of button pushes,

When I'm ready to file, it only takes a couple of button pushes.

gather all of the plates I'll need with a couple more

?? I already have all the plates I'll need. I'll push the buttons to pull them up as I need them while in flight.

, shoot the flight plan up to my panel avionics,

iFly can push the plan to my IFD540, but as of today I don't use that feature. IFD is pulling ADSB from 978-only Skytrax and tablets are pulling ADSB from dual-band Stratux so are on separate wifi networks. That may change in the future, but not yet.

Then, in flight, instead of tuning one frequency on the com and another on the nav, making a radio call and being told that there's a storm 30 miles northwest of some VOR I've never heard of moving toward my flight path, I can see it on a screen with radar that's been updated recently.

This has nothing to do with flight planning/filing, and is just a basic feature of ADSB Wx in the cockpit.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Ok, for kicks and grins, I downloaded GP on an android tablet and my iphone.

You will find the interface familiar if you have used a GTN. You will also find the Android version is workable but weak in comparison.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don't doubt that FltPlan is a great way to file a flight plan. But, for a product named “flight plan,” it does remarkably little to help plan a flight.

You may not remember the good old days? FltPlan.com was the first place I’m aware of which published recently filed and cleared ATC routes. That was huge. I remember thinking when ForeFlight added it, that FltPlan’s was more robust.

It also allowed flight plans to be created far in advance and saved for later use. That was a big deal for some charter operators. So was the FBO notification feature. More mundane reasons, but on personal flights,I regularly planned both my outbound and return trips at the same time.

Yes, modern EFBs and even contemporaneous flight planning software like FlightSoft have/had more planning features, but this was an amazing tool.

 

[TCABM]

You will find the interface familiar if you have used a GTN. You will also find the Android version is workable but weak in comparison.

The android version doesn’t look like it’s been updated since I trialed it four or five years ago and learned it wouldn’t load an approach into the flight plan.

The iOS version is definitly more feature rich. I’m trying to figure out how I can print off a kneeboard format of my trip like I get with iflightplanner’s web interface for iFly.

The “pack for a trip” feature was useful a decade ago when memory was $0.75/GB.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The android version doesn’t look like it’s been updated since I trialed it four or five years ago and learned it wouldn’t load an approach into the flight plan.

The iOS version is definitly more feature rich. I’m trying to figure out how I can print off a kneeboard format of my trip like I get with iflightplanner’s web interface for iFly.

The “pack for a trip” feature was useful a decade ago when memory was $0.75/GB.

I like the juxtaposition of those two comments I think of printing out a flight log as very old school, and updating NOTAM, TFR, and weather information not necessary available otherwise, just before leaving the FBO for the airplane as new school.

(BTW I don't download the whole country. Several reasons including having multiple EFBs and use of my iPad for more things than as an EFB. But I don't use "pack" for downloading those for trips outside the eastern seaboard.)

 

[iamtheari]

You may not remember the good old days? FltPlan.com was the first place I’m aware of which published recently filed and cleared ATC routes. That was huge. I remember thinking when ForeFlight added it, that FltPlan’s was more robust.

It also allowed flight plans to be created far in advance and saved for later use. That was a big deal for some charter operators. So was the FBO notification feature. More mundane reasons, but on personal flights,I regularly planned both my outbound and return trips at the same time.

Yes, modern EFBs and even contemporaneous flight planning software like FlightSoft have/had more planning features, but this was an amazing tool.

Per my response to the poll, I started using ForeFlight between my private pilot solo cross country and check ride, but didn't use it on the check ride. I stopped using paper charts (other than as documented in my Children of the Magenta Highlighter thread) by the time of my instrument rating check ride. For me, the good old days were basically VFR only.

As far as recently filed and cleared routes, I think the usefulness depends on geography. Even the more popular segments of my common routes don't have any previously filed routes since 2018 and I don't get much use out of a route that is just two VORs when my own planned route is on airways (including the same two VORs).

 

[midlifeflyer]

As far as recently filed and cleared routes, I think the usefulness depends on geography.

It definitely comes into its own in areas with more complex routing issue, but I've always found it helpful, even if just to know that Direct will work.

LOL, for me the good old days included the great advance of printing a flight log from DUAT using a 4800 baud modem and a dot matrix printer in time for my instrument checkride

 

[TCABM]

I like the juxtaposition of those two comments I think of printing out a flight log as very old school, and updating NOTAM, TFR, and weather information not necessary available otherwise, just before leaving the FBO for the airplane as new school.

It is an anachronism, I agree. I’ve yet to find an efficient way for me to write something down on the tablet. Granted, GP for android does a much better job at palm rejection and handwriting recognition than iFly does.

I’ve also yet to find a flight where I haven’t written at least one thing down. Usually it’s checking in w/approach with info X for the destination and then I get back “Info Yankee now available, blah, blah, blah…”. The other one that’s common for me is writing down the taxi instructions and/ CRAFT so I can visually compare what was given with the diagram/plate/departure. Sometimes I’ll draw it up on the efb afterwards and side by side w/paper just works for me.

There’s ways to do this on the tablet itself with two panes open in landscape view, but I’m not particularly proficient with that technique.

I will say my tablet is solely as an EFB, so it gets nationwide charts, plates, etc., monthly. My phone I just limit it to Texas unless I’m crossing a border.

Either way, I’ve yet to hit the memory stops because of the EFB’s data requirements.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It is an anachronism, I agree. I’ve yet to find an efficient way for me to write something down on the tablet. Granted, GP for android does a much better job at palm rejection and handwriting recognition than iFly does.

I’ve also yet to find a flight where I haven’t written at least one thing down. Usually it’s checking in w/approach with info X for the destination and then I get back “Info Yankee now available, blah, blah, blah…”. The other one that’s common for me is writing down the taxi instructions and/ CRAFT so I can visually compare what was given with the diagram/plate/departure. Sometimes I’ll draw it up on the efb afterwards and side by side w/paper just works for me.

There’s ways to do this on the tablet itself with two panes open in landscape view, but I’m not particularly proficient with that technique.

I will say my tablet is solely as an EFB, so it gets nationwide charts, plates, etc., monthly. My phone I just limit it to Texas unless I’m crossing a border.

Either way, I’ve yet to hit the memory stops because of the EFB’s data requirements.

I'm not saying anything about writing things down. Although I do write on my tablet (and sometimes phone), taking notes in flight and checklists are the two things I still use paper for. (Well, those and stickies to cover instruments during instructional flights.

 

[RussR]

It is an anachronism, I agree. I’ve yet to find an efficient way for me to write something down on the tablet. Granted, GP for android does a much better job at palm rejection and handwriting recognition than iFly does.

I’ve also yet to find a flight where I haven’t written at least one thing down. Usually it’s checking in w/approach with info X for the destination and then I get back “Info Yankee now available, blah, blah, blah…”. The other one that’s common for me is writing down the taxi instructions and/ CRAFT so I can visually compare what was given with the diagram/plate/departure. Sometimes I’ll draw it up on the efb afterwards and side by side w/paper just works for me.

There’s ways to do this on the tablet itself with two panes open in landscape view, but I’m not particularly proficient with that technique.

I will say my tablet is solely as an EFB, so it gets nationwide charts, plates, etc., monthly. My phone I just limit it to Texas unless I’m crossing a border.

Either way, I’ve yet to hit the memory stops because of the EFB’s data requirements.

For my day job, I write on my ipad while flying - a lot. Lots of markups on charts, often multiple clearances per flight, etc. I don't know what the offerings are for Android, but for iPad use, the Apple Pencil really became a game-changer for me. Yes, it's way overpriced, but it's so much better than writing with my finger that if work stops paying for one I will buy one myself.

 

[skyking3286]

Still using an iPad 2 with FlyQ

 

[RussR]

Not in my experience, but maybe we care about different details.

My flight planning often starts several days before I fly, using the same weather sites anyone would use for general ideas of weather patterns: Wunderground, Windy, etc. That doesn't involve anything I'd put in a flight plan.

Starting a couple days before I fly, I check Weathermeister a few times (yeah, I know--how '90s of me!) and punch in my origin and destination airports. This is one source I use to consider what altitude I'll select, as well as review TAFs, NOTAMs, graphical aviation weather products, etc. But I'm not inputting detailed routing (SIDs/STARs/etc.), just the airports and departure time. Since it has my aircraft profile including performance and fuel consumption data, that's not an extra step.

About a day before I fly I use fltplan.com to get an idea of the routing I should expect. It also gives a second opinion on winds for altitude selection. Here, I have to punch in all the deets for my flight plan, but most of it is pre-populated from my profile, and the stuff that isn't is often the same (I usually fly solo, with full tanks, on days where an alternate isn't required), and I usually click a button to pick the route FP.com says ATC is likely to give m anyway, so it takes about 10-15 seconds to fill out the form. I might only be checking route/winds when I first build the plan, in which case I save the plan and come back later to click the button to actually file.

A glaring omission here is that my EFB doesn't make an appearance (iFlyEFB). I developed this flow years ago when iFly was mostly just a set of georeferenced charts and didn't include flight planning features. When flight planning features were first added, they were not as good as the tools I was used to. Since then iFly's flight planning features have improved, but I don't always have iFly with me when I want to do some preliminary planning (or rather, I only have it on my phone and would prefer to use a larger screen), so I still continue to mostly use the flow I'm comfortable with instead of my EFB. I do now use the EFB toward the very end as a third check on winds/altitude selection, mostly as a sanity check for the choice I've already made using the other two tools.

As a result, I do have to duplicate the flight plan I entered/filed via FP.com into my EFB. However, since that usually only takes 15-30 seconds, I don't see that as a significant burden.

You have a system that works for you, and that's what's most important. However, the 5 or more websites and services and products you currently use are all combined in most modern EFBs - so there's seamless integration, once you start planning that flight two days out, it's all still right there each time you go to review it or update it, and the same product is then there with you in the cockpit when you're actually doing the flight. It really is pretty nice.

 

[RussR]

Why are you required to file there?

Company policy, contract, and integration with our risk assessment and weight and balance/performance calculation/runway analysis tools.

 

[Jim_R]

You have a system that works for you, and that's what's most important. However, the 5 or more websites and services and products you currently use are all combined in most modern EFBs - so there's seamless integration, once you start planning that flight two days out, it's all still right there each time you go to review it or update it, and the same product is then there with you in the cockpit when you're actually doing the flight. It really is pretty nice.

I think the big thing that keeps me from embracing the "all-EFB-all-the-time" approach is screen size/device availability. I do have my phone with me all the time and it runs my EFB, but I don't like doing flight planning on the little phone screen, using the EFB or any other tool. My tablet screen size is comfortable to work with, but I don't always have it with me. I do almost always have a laptop at hand, either for work or for personal use, so that's what I do my long-range planning with. It's easy to take a short break at work (or discreetly during a boring meeting!) to open another browser tab....

 

[RussR]

I think the big thing that keeps me from embracing the "all-EFB-all-the-time" approach is screen size/device availability. I do have my phone with me all the time and it runs my EFB, but I don't like doing flight planning on the little phone screen, using the EFB or any other tool. My tablet screen size is comfortable to work with, but I don't always have it with me. I do almost always have a laptop at hand, either for work or for personal use, so that's what I do my long-range planning with. It's easy to take a short break at work (or discreetly during a boring meeting!) to open another browser tab....

Foreflight, and I assume others, have a web version that you can do all the same planning on as well, and then that flight plan and other information is synced up and available on the EFB when you're ready to fly.

 

[TCABM]

Foreflight, and I assume others, have a web version that you can do all the same planning on as well, and then that flight plan and other information is synced up and available on the EFB when you're ready to fly.

IFly does and it works like a champ. I learned today that Garmin Pilot does too, but I haven’t tried it yet.

ETA: there is no web version of garmin pilot; the quick search I did was misleading.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don't know what the offerings are for Android,

Limited. There's the "S-Pen" for some Samsung offerings (Galaxy Note, S24 phone and later; some later model tablets), but otherwise it's pretty much finger or capacitive stylus in the Android world. .

Yes, it's way overpriced, but it's so much better than writing with my finger that if work stops paying for one I will buy one myself.

I am someone who loses things, so my "Apple" Pencils (yes plural) are knock-offs in the $20 range. The only significant difference is the lack of pressure sensitivity, which none of my uses require.

 

[TCABM]

Limited. There's the "S-Pen" for some Samsung offerings (Galaxy Note, S24 phone and later; some later model tablets), but otherwise it's pretty much finger or capacitive stylus in the Android world. .

I am someone who loses things, so my "Apple" Pencils (yes plural) are knock-offs in the $20 range. The only significant difference is the lack of pressure sensitivity, which none of my uses require.

Yeah, I’ve got an s-pen with my Tab S6(?). Works great until you get to iFly, which treats it like a thick crayola.

 

[pilotmandan]

I'm guessing that's a carry-over from earlier times when they used the website. I think it's also the reason Garmin bought FltPlan.

I wish. Simply because its free!! Makes it the greatest EFB ever made! Just ask my DO...

 

[Jim_R]

IFly does and it works like a champ. I learned today that Garmin Pilot does too, but I haven’t tried it yet.

ETA: there is no web version of garmin pilot; the quick search I did was misleading.

There's no web version of iFly, either. Are you referring to the the integration with iflightplanner.com? That's a separate product from a separate company, and requires a separate subscription.

There *is* a Windows version of iFly, but I can't install that on my work computer.

 

[TCABM]

There's no web version of iFly, either. Are you referring to the the integration with iflightplanner.com? That's a separate product from a separate company, and requires a separate subscription.

There *is* a Windows version of iFly, but I can't install that on my work computer.

Yes, the iflightplanner.com site which is free for AOPA members.

How to access iFlightPlanner for AOPA

To access iFlightPlanner for AOPA as part of your member benefit you do not need separate credentials for iFlightPlanner – simply head to https://www.aopa.org/iflightplanner.

www.iflightplanner.com

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You will find the interface familiar if you have used a GTN. You will also find the Android version is workable but weak in comparison.

Interesting. Garmin Pilot definitely has some sort of Garmin flavor to it, but I have a GTN in my plane and a bunch of G3000 time (that operates very much like the GTNs) and I still can't even come close to making GP do what I want.

The “pack for a trip” feature was useful a decade ago when memory was $0.75/GB.

Pack is still useful even when you have the entire CONUS downloaded already. "Quick grab me any last minute NOTAMs, the most up to date weather, and the fuel prices so I can access that all in the air."

And if you don't care about that stuff, you're not required to pack anyway. It's just a useful feature, not sure why you're so against it.

As far as recently filed and cleared routes, I think the usefulness depends on geography. Even the more popular segments of my common routes don't have any previously filed routes since 2018 and I don't get much use out of a route that is just two VORs when my own planned route is on airways (including the same two VORs).

I would guess that the majority of my personal flights are between airport pairs that haven't been flown before, so "recently cleared" gives me nothing at all.

This is something that I think nobody really nails. It's easy to take the single data source (FAA's cleared route feed) and slap it on your product. However, there are some additional steps I wish ForeFlight (or someone!) would take. For example, looking at all the routes cleared out of the departure airport and all the routes cleared into the destination airport, it would be possible to find the important stuff. Better still would be to do a FOIA request for all of the LOAs between ATC facilities. There are arrival and departure fixes that are commonly used by TRACONs where they can hand someone off to center with little or no pre-coordination to keep things flowing smoothly. Once you have a lot of experience in a particular place, you likely know a lot of these... But transient pilots don't know any of it.

If we did know that stuff, we could use it to plan our route in a way that would not only give us a better idea of how we would be handled (and be able to anticipate any issues much farther in advance), it would also reduce ATC's workload because they wouldn't have to answer so many questions on frequency, or take reroute requests that they have to deny.

It is an anachronism, I agree. I’ve yet to find an efficient way for me to write something down on the tablet. Granted, GP for android does a much better job at palm rejection and handwriting recognition than iFly does.

Aha. Android and the lack of an equivalent to the Apple Pencil is a drawback. The Apple Pencil has made it far easier to do certain tasks on the EFB. My ATIS and clearance copying is far more legible. It also has allowed me to do non-required things like draw red lines over closed taxiways on the airport diagrams.

I’ve also yet to find a flight where I haven’t written at least one thing down. Usually it’s checking in w/approach with info X for the destination and then I get back “Info Yankee now available, blah, blah, blah…”.

The only thing you need to have *right now* in that instance is the altimeter setting, so I just dial that into the altimeter. Regardless of EFB or paper, I never have a pencil in hand ready fast enough to write anything more down anyway, so if it's a new ATIS I just dial in the altimeter and then go listen to the ATIS again for the rest.

I'm not saying anything about writing things down. Although I do write on my tablet (and sometimes phone), taking notes in flight and checklists are the two things I still use paper for.

When I finally re-do my checklists to my satisfaction, I'm going to test ForeFlight vs. Goose vs. Garmin (on the GTN) to see if electronic checklists are workable enough.

I think the big thing that keeps me from embracing the "all-EFB-all-the-time" approach is screen size/device availability. I do have my phone with me all the time and it runs my EFB, but I don't like doing flight planning on the little phone screen, using the EFB or any other tool. My tablet screen size is comfortable to work with, but I don't always have it with me. I do almost always have a laptop at hand, either for work or for personal use, so that's what I do my long-range planning with. It's easy to take a short break at work (or discreetly during a boring meeting!) to open another browser tab....

ForeFlight can be used on phone, tablet, and web, and I use all three for exactly the reasons you're talking about. Long range planning at the trip level, it's really nice to have the whole thing on a 27" 4K display. Day before/day of weather and plan editing I usually use the iPad. Last minute checks for the most up-to-date METAR at my departure while I'm at a stop light is on the phone. Having flight plans that automatically transfer across all three is really nice.

 

[Jim_R]

Yes, the iflightplanner.com site which is free for AOPA members.

How to access iFlightPlanner for AOPA

To access iFlightPlanner for AOPA as part of your member benefit you do not need separate credentials for iFlightPlanner – simply head to https://www.aopa.org/iflightplanner.

www.iflightplanner.com

Huh! I never realized that was an AOPA perk.

 

[dragon_soldier]

I started day one as a student over 3 years ago. As a tech consultant, I found the digital adoption easy. Funny, I purchased paper maps during my IFR training and found it really helpful during my planning. Example, draw out course holds or VOR reversals. Learn via paper and make FF work even more effective.

Anecdote: I was also lucky my CFI used FF and we did my logbooks digital and in paper. The paper was only so I could pass it down to my daughter when the time comes. I have my great-grandfather, grandfather, and grandmothers paper logs and certs. So why not continue the tradition.

 

[asicer]

it's really nice to have the whole thing on a 27" 4K display.

I think it kinda sucks to be on such a small lo-res display as a 4k 27".

 

[AV8R_87]

I don't know what the offerings are for Android

Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 (released in 2013) was the first one with the S-Pen. Used it with Avare to write down ATIS info, draw taxi routes and pattern entries or similar stuff. A few other devices in the Note range support it. No batteries required, which is nice.

 

[midlifeflyer]

When I finally re-do my checklists to my satisfaction, I'm going to test ForeFlight vs. Goose vs. Garmin (on the GTN) to see if electronic checklists are workable enough

If you are really interested in making electronic checklists do what you want them to do, Goose can’t be beat. Aside from the customizability, Goose also works for Split View and Slide Over. So you can drag it over and slide it away while still on the same screen of ForeFlight. (Works as a slide-over, but not quite as well with Pilot.) It also allows you to print the checklists with some decent formats if you want backup. Because of its features like using location information, you can do things like have it recognize phases of flight and prompt checklist use accordingly. Branching checklists, etc etc. One can still KISS, though.

Downside is that Pilot and ForeFlight have a fairly large library of aircraft specific checklists from them while, unless you want the Checkmate checklists, are mostly user submissions. Since you are creating your own, that might not be an issue for you.

Using them is the biggest hurdle, one I could not get over.

 

[farangutan]

Never had any issue finding stylus/pencils that work well on android. Even on the ipad, I have the apple pencil and a back up cheap stylus that works great. I can't tell the difference when writing notes or copying clearances.
I usually use skyvector and other saved tabs to plan flights on the work computer. I feel more comfortable, personally, planning on a computer. Because I have tabs to aviationweather.gov, TFRs, ATC delays, google maps, google earth, searching restaurants, hotels, FBOs, etc.
I can do it all on an EFB on iOS or android when I'm out and about. When I have a break at work I prefer my work machine. (I'm an engineer, my home and workplace computers are solid machines with multiple displays.)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think it kinda sucks to be on such a small lo-res display as a 4k 27".

Of course. That's why it's only one of three.

If you are really interested in making electronic checklists do what you want them to do, Goose can’t be beat. Aside from the customizability, Goose also works for Split View and Slide Over. So you can drag it over and slide it away while still on the same screen of ForeFlight. (Works as a slide-over, but not quite as well with Pilot.) It also allows you to print the checklists with some decent formats if you want backup. Because of its features like using location information, you can do things like have it recognize phases of flight and prompt checklist use accordingly. Branching checklists, etc etc. One can still KISS, though.

The main issue I'm having with it is that the killer feature, voice recognition, is something I'm having trouble getting to work. I really want it to be call-and-response, but it seems like even the simpler "Check"/"Skip" or calling for a particular checklist isn't something I can get it to reliably do.

If you have any hints, I'd be very interested in hearing them!

Downside is that Pilot and ForeFlight have a fairly large library of aircraft specific checklists from them while, unless you want the Checkmate checklists, are mostly user submissions. Since you are creating your own, that might not be an issue for you.

Yeah, a library of manufacturer checklists that all suck doesn't seem like an advantage to me.

Using them is the biggest hurdle, one I could not get over.

You mean using electronic checklists in general? What held you back?