How long have you been using an iOS or Android EFB?

How long have you been using an iOS or Android EFB?

  • Less than 1 year. I'm brand new to this.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 1-2 years.

    Votes: 6 6.4%

  • 3-4 years.

    Votes: 5 5.3%

  • 5-6 years.

    Votes: 12 12.8%

  • 7-8 years.

    Votes: 13 13.8%

  • 9-10 years.

    Votes: 13 13.8%

  • 10-11 years.

    Votes: 14 14.9%

  • 12-13 years.

    Votes: 16 17.0%

  • 14-15 years.

    Votes: 9 9.6%

  • More than 15 years.

    Votes: 6 6.4%
  • Total voters
    94
Hangar neighbor told me about a local guy who flew with a laptop in the early 2000's, prior to the existence of ipads. Had it mounted to the panel and a mouse and everything. Not sure what he was using for software; I assume it was just pdf charts at that time. I think he said it had gps and the guy managed to overlay his position on the chart, but it might've just been a street map app. I'll have to ask about it again when I see him at the eaa Christmas party.
 
asicer said:
What does Avare lack for hard IFR use?
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No vertical flight plan profile, less weather integration, more difficult to create flight plans for IFR use (including approaches), no way to just enter a V-route, for example, you have to type all individual points.
We'll see how the new AvareX does these things.
 
asicer said:
What does Avare lack for hard IFR use?
Click to expand...
You kinda have to grab it and run some scenarios to see. This is a purely personal assessment after using just about every iOS and Android EFB available for the US market, but I found It's flight planning and ability to handle enroute changes very rudimentary and cumbersome compared with most other EFBs. I had it loaded it on my phone for backup purposes where I don't really care about much other than being able to pull up an approach plate, but found it unsuitable for me even for that.

I see @AV8R_87 covered a lot of that.
 
We were one of, if not the first Part 135 Operators to get approved to ditch our paper for ForeFlight. I think it was around December 2010 or January 2011. It was awesome because the airplane that I was assigned to keep current had a full USA set of Jepps.
 
When FlyQ got Mexico maps, we committed to seattle avionics and bought a lifetime subscription. Foreflight did not have them at the time, which is why we did not adopt them.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Is there an EFB for VFR only pilots that doesn’t cost an arm and two legs?
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Ah, how quickly we forget the bad parts of the bad old days.

My last big trip prior to iPad/ForeFlight, I bought all of the sectionals, low enroutes, A/FDs, and approach plate books. Good old NACO paper stuff.

It cost me $225 (for the trip, remember, it all expired in a few weeks!), filled up two grocery bags, and weighed probably a dozen pounds.

ANY EFB subscription that you'll buy as a single pilot with a piston aircraft is a bargain compared to what we used to pay for paper.
Greg Bockelman said:
Does FF have a VFR version?
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It's not "VFR" specifically, but the Basic Plus version of ForeFlight at about $120/year (IIRC) is plenty for personal VFR flying. The big thing the Pro Plus adds is the georeferenced approach plates.
Greg Bockelman said:
I can’t tell from the web sight but does FF Basic Plus have geo- referenced VFR charts (sectionals)?
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I think every EFB app has sectionals with ownship position available as part of the lowest subscription level.
dans2992 said:
Whatever year ForeFlight v1 came out. I believe they were, for the most part, first mover for iOS along with WingX.
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ForeFlight for iOS came out the day the app store opened in July of 2008. They got a lot of press as one of the most expensive apps on the store at $75. That was before you could do in-app purchases and subscriptions.

ForeFlight as we would recognize it today on an iPad started at version 3, and it looked like this:

IMG_0010.PNG
midlifeflyer said:
iPad came along in January 2010.
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Announced in January. WiFi only (no GPS) version shipped in March, WiFi+Cellular version in April. And yes, I stood in line, though I chose to do so at Best Buy, figuring that the rabid hordes of fanboys would be clogging up the Apple store and I'd have a better chance elsewhere. I was right.
Texas Bill said:
Least liked feature on ForeFlight is the need to PACK. Garmin Pilot never had the need to PACK.
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How do you ensure you have everything you need for a trip without needing to download EVERYTHING then??

I do have Garmin Pilot, but I only use it for Database Concierge. The experience I've had with just that portion of it has not left me wanting to learn much more.
Clip4 said:
The IPAD 1 was released April 2010, although the chart app companies predate that by a few years.
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Before the iPad, there were always a handful of companies hawking e-ink devices that could show approach plates... But they were all pretty much garbage because the screens weren't big enough to show an entire plate at a readable size and resolution, and e-ink displays are painfully slow to update. The advantage of e-ink is that it uses *zero* power to just keep an image on the display, and does not require a backlight for the display as it merely reflects ambient light just like paper does. But, the screens just weren't big enough to be usable. When the iPad did come out, well... Boy, what a game changer it has been.
midlifeflyer said:
I’ll add my own story…

I was visiting my brother-in-law in the summer of 2010 and had lunch with an online friend who had an iPad with ForeFlight. For those who don’t know, that’s iPad Year One. I was impressed but being an Android user, I was gonna wait.
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I always hated buying a book of approach plates and then throwing it in the garbage a few weeks later, so I was looking for an electronic solution starting in about 2005. There wasn't anything that was really usable enough until the iPad came out, but when it was introduced I knew it was the product I'd been waiting for. I waited in line on day 1 to get one, and like you, I haven't used a paper chart since.
RussR said:
Ever since seeing Foreflight at their booth at Oshkosh 2010. What a game-changer. I wanted nothing to do with paper after that point, and bought an iPad 1 and FF upon returning home.
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You might have talked to me! I was already on the testing team for ForeFlight at that point, and 2010 was the first year they had a booth at Oshkosh. They were completely unprepared for the level of demand they saw there, so right away on the first day they reached out to the whole testing team and some other people they knew and begged for help at their booth. I ended up helping out at the booth in the afternoons for the whole week, and I talked to a LOT of people. I wish I had pictures of it - They just had one of the plain old tiny standard size booths in a hangar, but the crowd that was there to see ForeFlight kinda looked like ants on cake.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
…
How do you ensure you have everything you need for a trip without needing to download EVERYTHING then??.
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Every month I download everything for the CONUS for iFly. The only unique thing I have for any trip is the navlog and some NOTAMs (airfield NOTAMs are resident in the efb) . I bring that in a hardcopy kneeboard format.

The concept of “packing” for a trip is one thing I think foreflight got wrong.
 
TCABM said:
Every month I download everything for the CONUS for iFly. The only unique thing I have for any trip is the navlog and some NOTAMs (airfield NOTAMs are resident in the efb) . I bring that in a hardcopy kneeboard format.

The concept of “packing” for a trip is one thing I think foreflight got wrong.
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You don’t “need” to pack unless you want this kind of stuff up to date. It’s just a simple “all available information” cross check. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

I rarely “pack” for a flight unless it’s to an area I haven’t downloaded already. I’ve done my briefing. I might look at the list and say, “nah, I got what I need.” Or I might take 1-2 minutes out of my busy day and “pack.” Or I might decide just to make sure I have the latest NOTAM and TFR information and just pack that.

1733230731515.png
 
FlyQ has a feature like that. Double check everything is current and that your flight plan didn't stray into an area or state that you haven't downloaded. I mainly use that on long cross countries. I fly with people that use foreflight and when shooting an approach at some local airport we didn't originally plan for they say, "I didn't load that approach" or "I didn't pack that approach".
Me: "What?? Why not? Did you not download the IFR charts and plates for the state?"
Them: "Well yea, but I still need to load them for a flight."
That doesn't make sense. With FlyQ or Avare, once I have that state downloaded, I can reference all the charts and plates for that region in flight without having to pack anything or load individual plates. Maybe they are using foreflight incorrectly. I haven't used foreflight in 8 years.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It doesn't make sense because that's not how it works. Never has. They are using it incorrectly. I'm amazed you said "people" rather than "one person."
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Agreed. They don't know how to use it correctly. But I have definitely seen some odd user practices, as I'm sure you have too. One is that some pilots will save all the charts for common airports in the Plates folder*. They then use just those charts for a while, and when we go someplace new, "oh, I don't think I have that approach downloaded" because they don't remember or realize that the whole state is actually downloaded.

* They do this, I believe, as a way to "quickly" find the charts they use most often, but I've seen it become comical when they get out of hand and then have to comb through 50 approach charts searching for the one we're flying, when they could just go to "airport", "procedures".
 
RussR said:
Agreed. They don't know how to use it correctly. But I have definitely seen some odd user practices, as I'm sure you have too. One is that some pilots will save all the charts for common airports in the Plates folder*. They then use just those charts for a while, and when we go someplace new, "oh, I don't think I have that approach downloaded" because they don't remember or realize that the whole state is actually downloaded.

* They do this, I believe, as a way to "quickly" find the charts they use most often, but I've seen it become comical when they get out of hand and then have to comb through 50 approach charts searching for the one we're flying, when they could just go to "airport", "procedures".
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I think what happens is that some people bring their paper procedures to the EFB world. I've heard multiple variations on the theme. I think there are even some user-requested EFB features that got added to accommodate that.

I think the "local chart binder" was pretty common in paper days, followed by combing through the book when something was different.

I've been known to tweak Jepp zealots about how easy even 10-9 information is to find in an EFB.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You might have talked to me! I was already on the testing team for ForeFlight at that point, and 2010 was the first year they had a booth at Oshkosh. They were completely unprepared for the level of demand they saw there, so right away on the first day they reached out to the whole testing team and some other people they knew and begged for help at their booth. I ended up helping out at the booth in the afternoons for the whole week, and I talked to a LOT of people. I wish I had pictures of it - They just had one of the plain old tiny standard size booths in a hangar, but the crowd that was there to see ForeFlight kinda looked like ants on cake.
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It's possible! I definitely remember it being the smallest possible booth, and I laugh when I see what they're renting these days. I do remember Tyson was there, and probably Jason as well.

I was at Osh that year representing the FAA in the Federal Pavilion, as I worked for what was then Aeronav Services, the office that develops procedures and produces the sectionals, approach charts, etc. My coworker had found your booth on a break and came back and said "Russ, you have to check out what this company called Foreflight is doing with iPads!" So I went over (in official-looking FAA polo shirt) on my next break and that was good enough for me, I was sold. $75 a year at the time was WAY less than buying charts for even a few short trips.

I had used AnywhereMap on a HP Ipaq before then, but it was so suboptimal that I just didn't bother much. Foreflight was a game-changing improvement.
 
I knew they had to be missing something. And yes, multiple pilots! More than once, when we've switched roles of safety pilot, I lent my ipad for the plate. User error.
 
AV8R_87 said:
No vertical flight plan profile, less weather integration, more difficult to create flight plans for IFR use (including approaches), no way to just enter a V-route, for example, you have to type all individual points.
We'll see how the new AvareX does these things.
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Avare does not connect to Garmin to get ADS-B weather and traffic. On Android you need either Garmin Pilot or Fltplan Go for that.
 
AV8R_87 said:
No vertical flight plan profile, less weather integration, more difficult to create flight plans for IFR use (including approaches), no way to just enter a V-route, for example, you have to type all individual points.
We'll see how the new AvareX does these things.
Click to expand...
1. Vertical plan: haven't found it in either classic or X.
2. Weather: haven't tested yet.
3. X has arrivals and approaches that you can load into the flight plan.
4. You can just enter a V airway. Classic will just add all the intermediate fixes as waypoints. X gives you the option to expand/collapse.
 
asicer said:
What does Avare lack for hard IFR use?
Click to expand...

What the difference between light and hard IFR when it comes to an EFB.

I keep Avare as my backup EFB, and I can’t think of anything that prevents it from being used as an EFB for IFR operations.
 
midlifeflyer said:
That's not a knock on Avare. Neither does any EFB other than ForeFlight or a Garmin product.
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Yes I know, I like and use Avare. Garmin Pilot, Fltplan Go and ForeFlight are the only ones that work with the GTX345 and ForeFlight does not work on Android, leaving only two.
 
po1212 said:
Yes I know, I like and use Avare. Garmin Pilot, Fltplan Go and ForeFlight are the only ones that work with the GTX345 and ForeFlight does not work on Android, leaving only two.
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I’m having a hard time understanding where connecting to a GTX345 became a dependency for an EFB in this conversation.
 
dans2992 said:
Well, if you own a GTX345, it’s probably important to you.
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We have a GTN650 and GTX345 in our 172 and there’s one plus a 430w the in the 182 I fly, too.

Never have connected an EFB to either. Zero importance to me at all.
 
TCABM said:
We have a GTN650 and GTX345 in our 172 and there’s one plus a 430w the in the 182 I fly, too.

Never have connected an EFB to either. Zero importance to me at all.
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Yeah, but for a lot of people being able to connect to the on-board avionics is important. If I look at the list of Bluetooth devices on my iPad, there are more than a dozen N-Numbers. While I carry an XGPS 170D, it's for backup purposes; I'd much rather connect to the airplane than drag my backup out of my bag for position, weather, and traffic. And, if one wants to take advantage of the ability to transfer flight plans back and forth (which I definitely care about when flying an airplane with a GNS into the airway-rich northeast corridor), connection to the panel is essential. While, there are other options out there, I think of the more than dozen connections I've made, maybe two are to non-Garmin sources.

So, while it's not particularly relevant to the original "how long" question, once the thread drifts to which EFBs, and there are people who don't care, I think discussion of connectivity is relevant. It's affected my own decision-making - I'm a big fan of the iFly EFB and used it as my iOS/Android backup app for several years. It even saved the day once when Foreflight crashed during an instrument approach. But I ultimately dropped my subscription because of the connection issue.
 
40YearDream said:
Anybody using Fltplan Go? Pros & cons?
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Pros:
Free (that's a big deal to many).
It may be the only EFB with free Canadian charts (including terminal procedures) included.
Multi-Platform. Both iOS and Android and they work pretty much the same in both.
Connects to Garmin avionics.

Cons:
Many find the interface and flow cumbersome.
The real flight planning is online, not within the app.
It's had a history of unreliability but it's gotten better through the years.
 
I think it's fair to say that connectivity to the panel is important for a lot of people. Even with glass all over the panel, I will pull out the iPad and look at big weather patterns ahead of me, charts and weather reports for alternate airports in case I need to divert, etc. The iPad is faster for things like that and having ADS-B weather piped into it makes that work. It's also a lot easier to plan a route on the iPad and upload it to the panel than to punch it into the avionics directly.

midlifeflyer said:
The real flight planning is online, not within the app.
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Additional con of FltPlan Go: You may need a week of remedial instruction to figure out how to plan a flight using their website. I have it installed for the Canadian charts. Maybe I'll go up that way if I ever figure out how to create a flight plan. We are definitely spoiled with the flagship EFB apps (Pilot and ForeFlight) being a lot more than just an electronic bag of charts.

As far as the topic of the thread goes, I checked my old emails and I first signed up for ForeFlight on 11/30/2015. In my flight training timeline, that was 2 weeks after my solo cross country. I still used paper charts for my PPL check ride.

Choice of EFB has been hard for me. I have generally preferred ForeFlight over Pilot, but since I upgraded the panel to one that can be updated with Database Concierge and have a database subscription that includes the premium upgrade to Pilot, I have spent two years using Pilot exclusively and have gotten used to most of its quirks. I am considering a switch back to ForeFlight depending on what I'm able to figure out about its icing forecast features. There is a rucsoundings-shaped hole in my icing avoidance skillset that I want to fill.
 
iamtheari said:
Additional con of FltPlan Go: You may need a week of remedial instruction to figure out how to plan a flight using their website. I have it installed for the Canadian charts. Maybe I'll go up that way if I ever figure out how to create a flight plan. We are definitely spoiled with the flagship EFB apps (Pilot and ForeFlight) being a lot more than just an electronic bag of charts.
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LOL! Considering that I was using FltPlan.com to plan flights pretty early in it's history (it started up in 1999) and long before Foreflight was more than an idea in Tyson Weihs' head, that hasn't been an issue for me. Nor, AFAIK for it's historical core Part 91 corporate and Part 135 users (actually, it was a corporate jet pilot who introduced me to it).
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yeah, but for a lot of people being able to connect to the on-board avionics is important...
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I don’t disagree, but focusing on just the GTX345 as the requirement for connectivity is a but much, even if it is the 800lb gorilla in the room. Thoughts continue below.
iamtheari said:
I think it's fair to say that connectivity to the panel is important for a lot of people..
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Panel connectivity is a broad term. EFBs can connect to a variety of avionics in a variety of ways. Functionality is important; if the intent of the connection is allowing the EFB to manipulate an active flight plan in a navigator, that’s a much different ballgame than getting ADS-B signals from a transponder or other in-panel avionics device.

For example, Avidyne IFDs have two-way exchange of flight plans and other data with iFly EFB, which is parity with FF as far as I’m aware. That’s a far cry from real time flight plan changes which I agree is a powerful feature.
 
iamtheari said:
Additional con of FltPlan Go: You may need a week of remedial instruction to figure out how to plan a flight using their website. I have it installed for the Canadian charts. Maybe I'll go up that way if I ever figure out how to create a flight plan.
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Really?? I have used that site to file all of my flight plans for years, because it takes me about 14 seconds to do it. (shrug)

That said, I'm talking strictly about filing. I do my flight planning elsewhere.
 
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