Don't forget you have to be cleared into the Bravo!!

k9medic

k9medic

Line Up and Wait
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ATP-H, CMEL, CSEL, CFI/CFII Airplanes and Helicopters
The other day while flying zoomming along at 7500' with my son at the controls (who is a newly minted PPL and MEL pilot,) we were handed off from one approach to another as we came towards the Bravo. After communicating with the Bravo approach controller, I was given a new altimeter and transponder code but the controller never mentioned the magic words "cleared into the Bravo."

Thanks to a late handoff from the previous approach controller, we were now less than 5nm miles from Bravo airspace with a ground speed of 210kts. My PIC son smartly said "he never cleared us into the Bravo" and began a climb to 10,500'. Unfortunately, with less than 2 minutes remaining before busting the airspace, the climb still would not have kept us from going into the airspace.

I kept waiting for a break in the radio transmissions (a lot of training aircraft evidently forgot it's a push to talk button, not push to think button) occupied the new controller's time. With that, I callled for the controls and executed what basically was a chandelle from a TAS of 175kts.

As I was coming through 10,200' the controller finally got back to me and told me I was now above the Bravo as he transferred me to a new controller. This new controller promptly gave me Bravo clearance and got me back down to 9500' for the transition.

At the end of the day, no violations occured but this was a good reminder for this professional pilot not to assume you are cleared just because you have a discrete code.

You're mileage may vary...
 
Something similar happened to me one time going into Phoenix. I was VFR in a C-210 when I called approach wanting to get into Sky Harbor. I was given a squawk and told to remain outside the class bravo and they will get back to me. A few minutes later the controller came back to me ''Cessna 12345 direct runway 25L Sky Harbor''. Immediately a different voice came on the radio, ''Cessna12345clearedintothePhoenixClassBravo.''

ooops.... :redface:
 
Yup, happened to me just a week ago in Detroit, only they ended up never clearing me into the Bravo. I was cruising along, Toledo handed me off to Detroit way late and then Detroit said cleared to Windsor, stay outside the Bravo. Chopped power, nose down and just barely managed to get below the Bravo. Would have preferred a gradual descent into Windsor but oh well.
 
Either get cleared into the bravo or wait for a phone number
 
When ATC gives me instructions that would definitely take me into the bravo, I usually read back the instructions with an added "Cleared to enter bravo" and they normally just reply with a brief confirmation.
 
Good reminder! I usually file IFR if I am going on a significant cross country so I always am cleared via their routing. Yesterday, on a long x country from Vero Beach to south Louisiana, I filed IFR to Foley where I stopped to top off and stretch my legs. The weather was so nice and I didn't feel like messing with a flight plan, I departed VFR and was with ATC for traffic advisories. I was running direct and through the north side of the MSY bravo. When Mobile handed me off to New Orleans, the controller cleared me through the bravo. It was a little bit of a startler since I am so accustomed to being IFR in that area I forgot that I needed bravo clearance. :aureola:
 
Flew from Florida to NC yesterday and didn’t bust a single bravo. Is that weird?
 
farangutan said:
When ATC gives me instructions that would definitely take me into the bravo, I usually read back the instructions with an added "Cleared to enter bravo" and they normally just reply with a brief confirmation.
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I even did that on a practice approach. "Oh yeah, I guess I have to do that. Cleared into the Class Bravo." was the response.

Funniest one though, was one I've posted before:

It was a group fly-in to CLT. VFR. Our group coordinator had called ATC to let them know and received instructions about best times, best directions, and how far out to start talking to Approach. Being vectored for approach and landing. The most obvious "implied clearance" I can think of. Nevertheless, my absolute never violate personal SOP is to always hear the magic words when VFR. So, on the downwind vector that would bring me into the Bravo, I read back, "left heading XXX. Confirm cleared into the Class Bravo."​
​
A pause during which you could almost hear a long sigh. Then, "everyone I am talking to is cleared into the Class Bravo."​
 
farangutan said:
When ATC gives me instructions that would definitely take me into the bravo, I usually read back the instructions with an added "Cleared to enter bravo" and they normally just reply with a brief confirmation.
Click to expand...

Nice, clear yourself into the bravo! Take that ATC!
 
Would ATC advise you to climb into the flight levels and not clear you into the Alpha? They make mistakes too, usually it’s on Bravo clearances or my tail number or type of airplane. I’ve been called everything by now.
 
Ha, I see how the way I wrote my comment it seems like that but I normally just append the end of a transmission with more of a question LOL
Ex, ATC: "N12345, turn left heading 200, maintain 2,500ft"
Me: "Left 200, maintain 2,500ft, confirm cleared through bravo?, N12345" I usually say it in my first readback because it gets busy and can get stuck trying to get a word in and have to dive below a shelf.
Most times I'm cleared but sometimes they reply back with a different altitude or an expect lower or maintain VFR outside of bravo. I don't want to assume and get busted.
 
mandm said:
Would ATC advise you to climb into the flight levels and not clear you into the Alpha? They make mistakes too, usually it’s on Bravo clearances or my tail number or type of airplane. I’ve been called everything by now.
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There is no "cleared into the Alpha". An IFR clearance is required and sufficient. Unless you're talking soaring and wave windows and all that kind of stuff, I have no idea about how they do that.
 
Never assume a Bravo clearance. Even in my work, where we are always talking to ATC and anywhere near a Bravo our work has been precoordinated and approved at multiple levels of ATC with lots of management visibility, we still make sure to get cleared into the Bravo (if we're VFR, which we usually are).

It's very easy to forget about it, though, when for example you've been talking with ATC for the last hour or two flying profiles in the same location, say underneath the Bravo, and then need to go up 500 feet which puts you in the Bravo. Haven't forgotten yet though. :fcross: (But I admit it's been close a few times.)

(And if you know what I do for my day job, yes, even we need to be explicitly cleared into the Bravo.)
 
I was flying home from OSH a couple of years ago fat, dumb, and happy and ATC says "Is this the altitude you want to transition the class B at." Look down at the chart. Oops, I guess I was about to blast into the CVG class B. Good thing they asked.

This is after I spent decades being based inside the DC class B (and now live under the CLT one).
 
When in doubt, "confirm clear Bravo" is a succinct way to query the controller if the you have a clearance.
 
Today I had an interesting exchange with NY TRACON. I was southbound at 4500 ft on a heading that would put me into the Bravo by about 4-5 nm at the widest. Northwest controller cleared me into the Bravo and then handed me off about 3-4 nm from the Bravo boundary. As is common with NY Approach the frequency was hopping with jet traffic and it took a while for a break in the conversation. I was about 1-2 nm from the boundary when the new controller revoked my clearance with a "stay clear of the Bravo". Was able to turn away in time, and I suspect that the controller would not have made a big issue of it if I had touched the edge. But I've never had that happen before.

I think the 2nd controller was in a Newark sector and may be one of the positions that was moved to Philadelphia from Long Island. I've never had problems getting flight following and Bravo clearances before that change, but have been 0 for about the last 5 or6 attempts in Newark sectors since the change was to have happened.
 
RussR said:
And if you know what I do for my day job, yes, even we need to be explicitly cleared into the Bravo.)
Click to expand...
Care to share or do you intend to just leave the reader hanging?
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Yup, happened to me just a week ago in Detroit, only they ended up never clearing me into the Bravo. I was cruising along, Toledo handed me off to Detroit way late and then Detroit said cleared to Windsor, stay outside the Bravo. Chopped power, nose down and just barely managed to get below the Bravo. Would have preferred a gradual descent into Windsor but oh well.
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I often fly to 2E8 in Dexter MI from Virginia. I fly over Toledo Suburban DUH and can cross Bravo or go around to the west. I was at 10,500 above a broken layer and ATC was busy so I was making my way around Bravo nearing Ann Arbor. The controller asked why I hadn't started descending and I replied that all the cloud breaks angled towards Bravo airspace and I was looking for a good hole. In less than a minute he came back with "VFR descent into Bravo approved" and handed me off to Detroit. I got down in smart fashion and landed easily. ATC did well for me that day.
 
Steamflyer said:
When in doubt, "confirm clear Bravo" is a succinct way to query the controller if the you have a clearance.
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On my recent cross country to bring my new plane home, I was getting close to the 6000' shelf south of Phoenix. I was on with Phoenix approach, and after 15 hours of flying the best I could come up with was "can I expect a Bravo clearance". Approach snapped back immediately with "Well do you have a request?" We did the song and dance and then it wasn't an issue. I suspect I would have gotten chewed out a bit with the "confirm clear Bravo" query, at least in Phoenix (at least on the South side).
 
k9medic said:
The other day while flying zoomming along at 7500' with my son at the controls (who is a newly minted PPL and MEL pilot,) we were handed off from one approach to another as we came towards the Bravo. After communicating with the Bravo approach controller, I was given a new altimeter and transponder code but the controller never mentioned the magic words "cleared into the Bravo."

Thanks to a late handoff from the previous approach controller, we were now less than 5nm miles from Bravo airspace with a ground speed of 210kts. My PIC son smartly said "he never cleared us into the Bravo" and began a climb to 10,500'. Unfortunately, with less than 2 minutes remaining before busting the airspace, the climb still would not have kept us from going into the airspace.

I kept waiting for a break in the radio transmissions (a lot of training aircraft evidently forgot it's a push to talk button, not push to think button) occupied the new controller's time. With that, I callled for the controls and executed what basically was a chandelle from a TAS of 175kts.

As I was coming through 10,200' the controller finally got back to me and told me I was now above the Bravo as he transferred me to a new controller. This new controller promptly gave me Bravo clearance and got me back down to 9500' for the transition.

At the end of the day, no violations occured but this was a good reminder for this professional pilot not to assume you are cleared just because you have a discrete code.

You're mileage may vary...
Click to expand...

Maybe the better reminder is VFR one has to remember airspace applies and you need to adequately plan for it.
 
RussR said:
There is no "cleared into the Alpha". An IFR clearance is required and sufficient. Unless you're talking soaring and wave windows and all that kind of stuff, I have no idea about how they do that.
Click to expand...
LOA’s
 
farangutan said:
Ha, I see how the way I wrote my comment it seems like that but I normally just append the end of a transmission with more of a question LOL
Ex, ATC: "N12345, turn left heading 200, maintain 2,500ft"
Me: "Left 200, maintain 2,500ft, confirm cleared through bravo?, N12345" I usually say it in my first readback because it gets busy and can get stuck trying to get a word in and have to dive below a shelf.
Most times I'm cleared but sometimes they reply back with a different altitude or an expect lower or maintain VFR outside of bravo. I don't want to assume and get busted.
Click to expand...
I understood. You and I do the same thing. Reading back an instruction by including what I will do is my clarification SOP in many circumstances, both VFR and IFR.
 
When you were talking you need to request....."looking for a bravo clearance". They don't always go there. This should have been requested when you had time to alter your course....a few minutes before you got there. ATC in my area "usually" says remain outside bravo....until you are cleared in.
 
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