Balancing Moderation for a Thriving Community

The rules on this site are pretty comprehensive. When I say they need to be specific I don’t mean calling out every situation exactly but they shouldn’t be open for interpretation. It should be clear what the rules are to everyone and what the consequences are of breaking them.

The recent name my puppy thread is a good example. The original post itself wasn’t directly political and didn’t violate the “Political/Religious discussions are prohibited” rule directly but many of the replies did and the thread went downhill from there. When the entire thread got deleted the original poster questioned why. If the original thread was not actually allowed then the rule should be changed from no political discussions to also include no discussions that are only intended to generate political charged responses. It should also be clear why the whole thread was deleted instead of just the political responses. It also needs to be clear for the responses that were against already standing rules it what the consequence is. Those consequences need to be applied evenly to every person who replied with a political response regardless of who the moderator is or how long the person has been here. Consistency and clarity are the only way to keep forums from self destructing.

I would also suggest putting the rules as a sticky at the top of every forum and sub forum. I had to actually go digging to try and find them for this site as it’s been years since I registered and read them.

It should be blatantly obvious to everyone what the rules are and if you can’t write them down then they aren’t actually a rule, they are just each moderators opinion.
 
I didn’t read the “puppy” thread because… well, I like puppies, but I’m here for planes. Was easy enough to just ignore the thread.
 
RyanB said:
This thread opens up a discussion that is worthwhile of having.


So please, provide us feedback, I want to hear from YOU!
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I'm new here. Not new to aviation, and not new to internet forums. I moderate several other forums, and as you said, it's a balancing job, and not always easy to find the right path. In the early Oct days, as things began to heat up in the US, we were allowing quite a bit of back and forth not directly related to the topical forum. That ended on Nov 7 and there were a dozen or so threads that, like Elvis, left the building. Threads of cultural, economic, or social significance have a place on a forum, but maybe not this one. It's difficult to have a discussion about cultural or idealistic subjects without them veering into a left/right or my guy, your guy protagonistic screaming match.

I would say the MC could open a forum for discussion of non-aviation related commentary, and strict content control of non-politic subject matter. However - and it's a big however, this is going to increase the moderation workload substantially. Moderating a non-av sub-forum would likely increase the moderation of threads by a huge factor. Do you want to take on that challenge to increase thread count? Quantity is not quality. Like the OP I have a few letters behind my name(I don't publish them for a reason). That doesn't mean my opinions or ideas have any greater merit, but it does mean that there is a value proposition in releasing the hounds and letting them chase the fox. Some threads, and some posts will cause me to question why some people are still alive, considering the remarkably stupid things I see posted elsewhere.

It's a minefield I would not want to admin. Modding is bad enough. :eek:
 
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Barrett50 said:
I would say the MC could open a forum for discussion of non-aviation related commentary, and strict content control of non-politic subject matter. However - and it's a big however, this is going to increase the moderation workload substantially. Moderating a non-av sub-forum would likely increase the moderation of threads by a huge factor. Do you want to take on that challenge to increase thread count? Quantity is not quality. Like the OP I have a few letters behind my name(I don't publish them for a reason). That doesn't mean my opinions or ideas have any greater merit, but it does mean that there is a value proposition in releasing the hounds and letting them chase the fox. Some threads, and some posts will cause me to question why some people are still alive, considering the remarkably stupid things I see posted elsewhere.
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That is what the Hangar Talk sub-forum is for.
 
In my opinion, moderating a forum is similar to refereeing soccer: call every foul and there’s no flow to the game, call nothing and things get out of hand. So where do you draw the line? Somewhere in the reasonable middle. I might draw the line in a slightly different place than the next ref…I might even draw it in a slightly different place than I did last game. At the end of the day, the goal doesn’t change. Have I ever made a bad call? Who? Me? NEVER! Sure I have.

Overall, our mods do a pretty good job in my experience. I have participated in threads that were highly controversial (like firearms for self defense for instance) that were ultimately locked, but I felt were locked after an appropriate amount of discussion was allowed.

I think these are the salient points so far:
1. Mods are not perfect.
2. Overall forum participation is down, but not gone. This is tied to:
A. General decline of GA numbers
B. Other sites that may draw some people away.
C. COVID allowed many people additional time to contribute, which is waning.
3. In our society as a whole, civility and decorum are fading fast, making it increasingly difficult to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion on a controversial topic (religion and politics being the two that often find themselves on the chopping block).

I work in a field where many days, it’s just me and my partner spending the whole shift doing…not much. If you guys can’t tell by my username, what I believe (I don’t like the term religion) is very important to me. Within the last 2 months, I’ve talked to two former partners who both made similar comments: they don’t like talking about religion. I said, “We talked about it all the time - almost daily - when we worked together.” And they both said something to the effect of: “Yeah, but you didn’t shove it down my throat.”

We ought to apply that here, in our marriages, in our workplaces, in the grocery store……

I know that I would agree with some of you politically. I know that I would disagree with others of you. The same could be said about any number of topics. But what I can agree with all of you on is that flying is a special privilege and we certainly enjoy it. That’s what this forum is about and why I’m here. You all have been wonderful to share your knowledge, encouraging younger/less experienced pilots, keeping the humor going, commiserating with AOGs/deferred medical/etc. Keep it up!

To the mods: you’re the worst! Just kidding, you guys do great 99.9% of the time. We are over here barking about the .1%. Is there room for improvement? Sure. And there always will be.

I just want to point out how great this forum is: recently, a pilot shared that he was having a hard time sourcing a particular part. In about 3 weeks, he had the part in hand thanks to you guys. THAT, my friends, is what makes POA so awesome!
 
flyingpreacher said:
I just want to point out how great this forum is: recently, a pilot shared that he was having a hard time sourcing a particular part. In about 3 weeks, he had the part in hand thanks to you guys. THAT, my friends, is what makes POA so awesome!
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Thanks for the report!
 
There are a lot of pretty smart people here. I can always learn something from the experts in various fields, if not for the limits on what's discussed on the site. Economics, media, education, cultural differences, weapons, health, etc. I'm afraid to open those doors, in case it leads to the ban hammer.
 
kmacht said:
The rules on this site are pretty comprehensive. When I say they need to be specific I don’t mean calling out every situation exactly but they shouldn’t be open for interpretation.
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Perhaps you could provide an example of a complete set of rules that will never be subject to interpretation ever again.
 
Rgbeard said:
I have serious concerns and don’t know how to express them, and I’m hoping this thread becomes a good way to start.

I’d like to open a conversation about the importance of balance when it comes to forum moderation. Having been part of several online communities over the years, I’ve seen firsthand how critical a thoughtful moderation approach can be. When moderation is done well, it creates a respectful, engaging space. But I’ve also observed that overly aggressive moderation can inadvertently discourage members, stifling participation and, ultimately, the vibrancy of the community itself.

Overly stringent moderation can lead to an atmosphere where members feel hesitant to post or engage. If members are too worried about potentially violating the rules, they might simply hold back instead of sharing their perspectives. While we all want a positive and constructive space, a “chilled” atmosphere can make the forum feel less like a community and more like a set of guidelines, which can be intimidating. This can be especially true if members are receiving frequent warnings or if there is little transparency around the rationale for moderation decisions.

Another challenge with strict moderation is the risk of discouraging new members from fully joining in. If they see discussions frequently cut short, or if certain topics appear off-limits even when they might be relevant to the community’s mission, it can create the impression that their contributions aren’t welcome. For many forums, new members are a vital source of fresh perspectives and energy, and if those potential contributors don’t feel free to express themselves, they may not stick around.

Long-term members are at risk, too. In tight-knit communities, members often feel a personal investment in the forum. They come to see it as a second home. When moderation feels too restrictive or unpredictable, these members can feel disillusioned, leading them to disengage or leave. This, in turn, impacts the forum’s depth and diversity, as those members often bring valuable experience and insights. A loss of long-standing members can be hard to reverse and can alter the community dynamic in ways that affect everyone.

Ultimately, I believe moderation is best when it’s balanced and clear. Rules are essential for maintaining a positive space, but it’s equally important that members feel they can contribute without fear of being “policed” too stringently. By carefully considering where lines are drawn and ensuring communication around moderation is open, we can maintain a healthy, thriving forum that encourages both new and veteran members alike. Thank you to everyone who works to keep this balance and foster an inclusive space—it’s a difficult but incredibly important task.

POA has fought the trend and maintained its status as a surviving forum. I’ve seen other topic-specific forums (mostly motorcycle) die away and POOF. I’m watching this community suffer, and while I don’t have access to statistics, I can see with my own eyes the atrophy of our posts. How do we keep POA from swirling the bowl and becoming another statistic in the shrinking world of topic-specific Internet forums.

Conveniently, the ROC strictly prohibits discussing moderation, so I’m at risk of being POOFED just by posting this sincere attempt at helping our online community. I have concerns. *IF YOU SEE “EJECTION HANDLE PULLED”* - It’s been fun - and I’m rusty@desertjags.com

Dr. Russell G. "Rusty" Beard
MBA, PhD, ASEL, CFI, PA-32 guy, motorhead, former HOA President, etc. etc.
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I'm new here and so far this forum appears to be well moderated. I've been on a forum where the Elite few get away with abuse, not seeing abuse here. Attacking new members is childish, and we're all new members once upon a time. Anonymity gives the less gentlemanly opportunities to boost their own ego by abusing others
 
Been reading this place regularly for 14 years s…thank you moderators for keeping it aviation
 
I do love the forum but miss henning, mascard, Denver pilot and others who contributed a lot of great food for thought and made it interesting. I appreciate we have several newer posters bringing new perspectives too! I just wish we had some of the old too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MIFlyer said:
I do love the forum but miss henning, mascard, Denver pilot and others who contributed a lot of great food for thought and made it interesting. I appreciate we have several newer posters bringing new perspectives too! I just wish we had some of the old too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I agree.
 
I think for the most part the mods here do pretty good. I've been on internet forums most of my adult life, been a mod/admin before, etc. There is no perfect formula. Speech and especially humor are such subjective things. My over the line is not going to be your over the line. Moderation won't always be consistent for that reason. I don't think anyone on here is really tyrannical although I do see things locked from time to time that make me roll my eyes and say "really?" But I'm someone who enjoys dark and inappropriate humor so... I might not be the best one to poll about things going too far.

At one time I was opposed to the no-politics rule but given the way all of that has gone in the past decade or so I'm no longer so sure. I've seen a couple of people fighting over it ruin more than one online community and right now it seems to be absolutely EVERYWHERE. People are ending lifelong friendships over this stuff, they're disowning their family over this stuff. Hey, I've got strong opinions on this stuff and how it impacts my life too... and maybe that's the problem. When you see someone misrepresenting a candidate/law/viewpoint you share it's hard to just disregard that. It's addictive, it sucks you in, and then you're up arguing with some idiot on the internet instead of going to bed. I've come to appreciate that there's one online community I can go to and get away from this boiling cauldron of anger stew being served up almost everywhere else.

My airport doesn't have a super active flying community- POA pretty much is my aviation community so I'm in for the duration either way.
 
Jim_R said:
Perhaps you could provide an example of a complete set of rules that will never be subject to interpretation ever again.
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I was trying to find a way to say exactly this.

I also question why this poster thinks that a post that is intended to provoke out-of-bounds posts should be seen as anything different from the posts that it is intended to provoke.

He suggests spelling out the rules to make them not require any judgement or interpretation and likens this to the way one raises a child. I question whether or not he has ever encountered a real live child.
 
RyanB said:
I think it should be noted that we - the MC - don’t agree on everything and that’s normal, but I do know we each have at least two things in common and that’s a love for aviation and wanting to see the forum succeed; it’s just the path we take to do so is seen differently by some of us. The concern that I have been having, is that I am afraid the approach to moderation we’re currently taking, is going to have an adverse effect on our long term success.
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What do you think the path you're currently taking is, and what effects do you think it's having?
RyanB said:
I say that, because I note the forum statistics that we have in the admin panel, which show a steadily decreasing number of daily posts and our users active have also experienced a decline. Why is this? It could be due to over moderation, but of course it could be due to many other life factors - frankly I don’t know. That said, as someone who loves this forum deeply, it makes me nervous and sad to keep seeing the activity in a descent.
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Well, aviation is shrinking, especially the recreational side of things that I think most of us are here for. There are (finally) lots of people pursuing pro pilot jobs now that low-end pay has drastically improved, but I think a lot of those folks are doing it because it's a cool sounding job that pays well, and they don't have the passion nor appreciate the little things that many of us here do.

The other thing is that Facebook has been pushing their communities because they were hemorrhaging users with all of the political nonsense there. So, I'm now in Facebook groups for Mooneys, a few different avionics items, a couple of Wisconsin pilot groups, a North Texas pilot group because why not and I know lots of people there, and frankly the sort of short posts/comments one sees on Facebook and the app they have make it super easy to consume and participate from your phone while you're on the toilet or just waking up or going to sleep. When I post on PoA, I want a real keyboard so I can yap forever like I'm doing here. ;)
RyanB said:
My question for all of you great folks, as I am just interested to know from a feedback perspective - what are we as the MC doing well and what things could we do better? Do the people want to see political discourse be allowed? Do you want it prohibited? Do you want looser moderation, or are we doing well as-is? Feedback from our valued members is critical for our long term success and I don’t think we do enough of it. Without the participation of each of you, well, we wouldn’t have a forum.
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I have been here since the first or second day this forum existed, through at least three complete turnovers of the MC, I'm #10 in post count and a significant chunk of my 3000-ish hours have been flying to various parts of the country to meet up with the many wonderful people I've been privileged enough to meet through this forum. Somehow, through all of that, I've never been banned, not even temporarily. (Get with the program, MC. ;))

I think you're doing just fine. PoA has survived and thrived FAR longer than most other online forums of its size. I like to think that's because we're pilots, which means that (1) we're reasonably smart people, and (2) we can meet up in person across our scattered geography far more easily than those on non-aviation forums. It's one thing to rant and rave at some faceless person on the Internet; It's much harder when you've met the other person and you hear their posts in their voice.

Being an admin/mod of any forum is always tough and will lead you to second-guess decisions, but sometimes you've got to cut someone out if they become a negative influence on the group, regardless of their contributions. It's happened several times across the years that people here who were once fantastic contributors started causing enough problems that they were sent packing, and it's unfortunate, but the community has survived.
RyanB said:
Those early days were different. Yeah the discourse might have been a bit more brash at times with political and religious discussion being allowed in the spin zone, but we’ve also lost so many good, knowledgeable and valued members and we simply cannot afford to lose more.
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Life goes on, people have shifting priorities. My own participation has gone up and down quite a bit over the years as I've gotten married, had kids, changed jobs, and all that. When I think about some of the people who used to contribute a lot in the early days, those who I've kept in touch with outside of PoA have often pulled back from flying as well - Diana sold her Citabria, Ron sold the Cougar and then the "Cheeger", Chip sold all of his stuff but last I knew kept flying in other people's airplanes, I think Steve sold the IAR a while back and is happy being a grandpa, Adam and Spike still have their Bonanzas but seem to talk mostly to each other on the phone :rofl:, etc... I miss the old crowd, but there's great people in the new crowd as well.

If you think about it, PoA has pretty much lasted an entire generation. We used to ***** about those darn millenials, and now we are millenials more often than not! :D I've gone from one of the young ones to merely average. I'm starting to feel old and realizing that the day is approaching when my profile pic will say "Gone West" underneath and the word count on PoA will take another dive. I might be more than halfway through my flying and PoA tenure, even though I'm just the same guy in an increasingly broken and achy body. The population is changing, and so is PoA, but the forum is overall still a great place to be and I think the MC is doing well.
StraightnLevel said:
There are plenty of places where you can discuss politics. The problem is that those places become a constant barrage of poo-slinging (have you seen Facebook lately?)
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We used to have a forum here called "The Spin Zone". It was my idea, believe it or not. Civil discussion of politics was allowed in Hangar Talk back in the early days but many people didn't want to see it so we put it in its own corner. Unfortunately, there were some people who chose to participate there by constantly dropping bombs and it was taking up 90% of the MC's time to police the vitriol that a small but significant number of members were spewing, so it got shut down.

I did learn a fair amount there by listening to people with opposing views, but I would say I was probably in the minority. It was nice to be able to talk politics with other pilots, because pilots tend to be smart people. However, as bad as it got when it was around, in today's climate it simply wouldn't work any more.
Dave Theisen said:
Daily post count decline can be directly tied to @denverpilot decided to pull back. :)
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I'm trying to make up for him a little. :)
 
The problem with the Spin Zone was that what happened in the Spin Zone DID NOT stay in the Spin Zone and the rest of us had to put up with that crap if we wanted to stick around.
 
kmacht said:
I would also suggest putting the rules as a sticky at the top of every forum and sub forum. I had to actually go digging to try and find them for this site as it’s been years since I registered and read them.
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There's already a link to the rules at the bottom of every page no matter where you are in the forum:
1731675094046.png
 
I think back not long ago to a few other over moderated aviation boards - Red and Purple. At one point post rec.aviation they and POA were great communities. Red and Purple are now just memories.

I think too with a few other hobbies and their forums where newbie’s ask innocent questions and are piled on without a simple Welcome (needless to say new folks almost never return)

Another board I’m on has a “beginner “ and “advanced “ area. The beginner is family friendly as folks are trying to learn a new complex hobby. The advanced is more open with some frank but polite “what were you thinking “ type discussions. But the mods keep it in check.

I’ve seen other boards where the modes interject mid thread after deleting posts with a start reminder to keep things on topic. They also close threads when the discussion circles the second or third time.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I did learn a fair amount there by listening to people with opposing views, but I would say I was probably in the minority. It was nice to be able to talk politics with other pilots, because pilots tend to be smart people. However, as bad as it got when it was around, in today's climate it simply wouldn't work any more.
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But it still exist and still works, just not here.
 
Initial Fix said:
I think too with a few other hobbies and their forums where newbie’s ask innocent questions and are piled on without a simple Welcome (needless to say new folks almost never return)
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That happens in this forum on a regular basis.
 
1. We strive for unanimity; unilateral action is a last resort.
2. Limited mod coverage/availability means that there are often delays. We don't read every thread.
3. We tend to err way Way WAY on the side of caution, interpret the RoC pretty narrowly, and try to give the benefit of the doubt.
4. Recidivism is a thing, and there are those whose compliance attitude is to tiptoe up to the line.
5. Despite the fact that most of us who have been around for a while can "name that tune" in about one post, rates of user reporting of objectionable content remain generally low.

1+2 means that sometimes concurrence is the best we can do, or a lock to let things cool off and give us time to discuss it.

3+4 means that subtext and innuendo can get a thread spinning before anything crosses the line into actionable RoC violations.

2+5 means that the alternative of laissez-faire self-moderation would result in threads crossing the event horizon into the SZ well before the first report is made.

GeorgeC,
speaking for himself
 
Doc Holliday said:
But it still exist and still works, just not here.
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Where can I talk with about politics with other pilots who I've largely met in person? And have it work?

FWIW, I have found through Facebook that some people I used to greatly respect seem to have only a very tenuous grasp on reality, so no, I don't think it'd work any more.
 
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