Growler Down

The VR-1355 runs through there - Very popular route. I suspect I've flown it more than 100 times. These days it's a 500' AGL route (it was 200' AGL back in the day) and is almost certainly the most scenic route in the lower 48. Parts of it were used for the last Top Gun movie. Training like this forces you to concentrate on Aviate, Navigate, Communicate priorities and a momentary attention lapse at 420 KTS is all it takes. Ejecting, unless it's a mechanical issue and you get the nose pointed up, isn't likely.

Wreckage has been found. There was a temporary flight restriction (TFR) there yesterday for the search. 13:30 minutes into this video starts the area where that TFR is. On the route it's where you start to encounter rapidly rising terrain.

 
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Some of this was probably around 200 agl. Thought I heard a rumor back in the day an A-6 went under a popular bridge along the route.


 
How common are bird strikes for you guys while flying a route like that?
 
How common are bird strikes for you guys while flying a route like that?
My next door neighbor is a retired F-16 pilot. He told me about a bird strike, probably a vulture, at 500+ knots that cracked the structure inside the leading edge extension. A friend of his was killed by a similar bird strike.
 
How common are bird strikes for you guys while flying a route like that?

I haven't had one out there before, but it certainly wouldn't be unheard of. My most recent was dead in the center of the canopy, right above my HUD, and splattered back across the top of the canopy. Happened at about 120 knots on landing rollout, back at whidbey, at night. Was a little bird though.
 
Not common, but not unheard of.

Usually pretty colorful…. You see ‘em all the time, you maneuver to avoid them. All my buds that have had them said it was unavoidable. Just a speck then a splat.

I’ve had lots of small bird hits in the pattern, but not on a low level.
 
They’ve been active out here recently. Several bird strikes reported in our program. I’ve hit two in the last month. Both at night.
IMG_4460.jpeg
 
I think a tricky part of flying those routes must be weather planning. They span great distances, sometimes into several states and they require VFR; 3000/5. Trying to plan for that type of weather and in the mountains is a lot of guesswork. Especially at the speeds they travel. I’ve got a route in the backyard and I’ve never seen them run it in MVFR.
 
Do the ejection seats have ELT beacons that provide some sort of electronic signature? In other words, would the Navy know whether the crew punched out or not?
 
Do the ejection seats have ELT beacons that provide some sort of electronic signature? In other words, would the Navy know whether the crew punched out or not?
The survival kits have beacons in them that are activated upon separation. If they impacted with no ejection, only the airframe pinger would activate, and I think only if it gets wet.
 
I've got a significant amount of low level flying time mostly at 480 kts but higher (on the target run). Birds and wires were my biggest concern. We practiced with terrain following radar most of the time but did occasionally hand fly. It was getting harder and harder to find places where the rules allowed really tactical low flying in Europe due to noise complaints and this was in the 1990's. Have no idea what restrictions are in place now.
 
No status as of this morning. They were bringing in some people from the Army 1st Special Forces that are mountain ops specialist to get into the crash site.
 
Seattle Times reporting search crews have reached crash site. Location reported as near Pear Butte, about 4 miles SW of Mt. Aix, which is just about the center of the TFR.
 
Well, I was hoping for an ejection but knew the odds were slim. Nickel on the Grass.

 
Well, I was hoping for an ejection but knew the odds were slim. Nickel on the Grass.

Like everyone, was hoping for news that they got out and were somehow safe.

RIP to the pilots and my condolences to their friends, Navy brothers/sisters, and family.
 
Well, I was hoping for an ejection but knew the odds were slim. Nickel on the Grass.

Down at the bottom it says: This story has been updated to correct the Navy says it has declared the crew members dead, not found them dead.

So, no bodies recovered? That's how that update appears to read.
 
Probably half my age or less. I know there are always going to be training accidents, but it still makes me sad when it happens.
 
Anybody thinking weather might have been a factor? Seems like it got to snowing pretty soon after the crash.
 
RIP, Aviators. :(

I can't wait to see what some of the Facebook pilot groups are going to say about this crew. :mad:

They can come f*king talk to me if they have questions, in person. I'll tell them where they can go f*** off to. Fortunately I don't care about what idiots say on FB.
 
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Anybody thinking weather might have been a factor? Seems like it got to snowing pretty soon after the crash.
I was wondering also, yes I realize, one can misjudge a ridge or turn in VMC, but some lower cloud cover isn’t conducive to safe flight. Not sure what’s in the area with reporting, Yakima maybe? Of course, could be a little different towards some terrain.
 
They can come f*king talk to me if they have questions, in person. I'll tell them where they can go f*** off to. Fortunately I don't care about what idiots say on FB.
As expected, it didn't take long for this kind of crap to appear:

464177851_10161631058144054_9111992586970456880_n.jpg

Of course, someone went and looked this guy up in the registry, and found that he had a private pilot certificate, no instrument rating, issued 2008.

As pilots, we need to call out this kind of behavior because there's too much of it and it needs to stop. Those women earned their positions... I'll put NAS Whidbey Island's post in my next response:
 
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Remembering Two Trailblazing Aviators: Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman

On behalf of all of Team Whidbey, our condolences go out to the families of our fallen aviators.

In the world of U.S. Naval Aviation, very few names will be forever imprinted with their squadrons, their communities, and their shipmates. Among them are Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman, two highly skilled, combat-decorated aviators who tragically lost their lives during a routine training flight near Mount Rainier on Oct. 15, 2024. More than just names and ranks, they were role models, trailblazers, and women whose influence touched countless people on the flight deck and well beyond.

They had recently returned from a deployment with their squadron, Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 130, “Zappers,” with whom they spent nine months at sea as a part of Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) aboard USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (IKE). Operating mostly from the Red Sea, they supported Operations INHERENT RESOLVE, PROSPERITY GUARDIAN, and POSEIDON ARCHER, where they were involved in the most dynamic combat action in defense of the strike group and freedom of navigation since World War II.

During their deployment, both Evans and Wileman distinguished themselves in combat operations. Their efforts directly contributed to the Navy’s mission defending U.S. and Coalition forces while keeping the seas open and free with precision and purpose. These role models cemented legacies by making history that will inspire future generations of Naval officers and aviators.

Born to Lead: Lyndsay “Miley” Evans
464096008_946274524208609_3958035458322347137_n.jpg
Following her time at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Evans was commissioned through the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and earned her “Wings of Gold” as a Naval Flight Officer out of Naval Air Station (NAS) Pensacola. While familiar with the spotlight, Evans always carried herself as a humble yet strong leader – the quiet professional. As an EA-18G Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO) and veteran of two sea tours, she earned the respect of the entire Growler community for her tactical expertise, mentorship to those of all ranks and communities, and ability to bring out the best in everyone around her.

In 2023, Evans was part of the all-female Super Bowl flyover, a historic moment marking 50 years of women flying in the Navy. This event also symbolized the progress of women in aviation across all military branches. But for those who knew her best, this was only one highlight in a notable career defined by high performance and distinction. After completing the challenging 12-week HAVOC graduate-level course at NAS Fallon (the TOPGUN of the Growler community), Evans earned the honor and responsibility of becoming a Growler Tactics Instructor (GTI). Living up to this responsibility daily, her approachable and knowledgeable demeanor enabled the training and development of countless junior EA-18G Pilots and EWOs. Therefore, it was no surprise to her mentors and peers when she was recognized as the FY2024 Growler Tactics Instructor of the Year, a prestigious honor earned through her tactical acumen and sustained leadership.

During her 2023-24 deployment with CVW-3 on the IKE Carrier Strike Group (IKE CSG) in the Red Sea, Evans coordinated and executed multiple combat strikes into Houthi-controlled territories in Yemen, making her one of the few women to fly combat missions over land. In her critical role as VAQ-130’s Training Officer, she helped develop and execute new warfare tactics that required knowledge, innovation, and a comprehensive understanding of aerial warfare and electronic attack in a nascent theater against a constantly evolving threat. The tactics, techniques, and procedures for the EA-18G she pioneered defending against Houthi aggression directly contributed to the successful defense of the entire CSG and will be used as a template for adaptability at the unrelenting pace of combat in future fights.

Evans was awarded two Single Action Air Medals for her exceptional performance during strikes on January 12 and 22, 2024. She also earned three Strike Flight Air Medals for her contributions to missions flown between December 21, 2023, and March 29, 2024.

The Heart and Soul: Serena “Dug” Wileman
464286711_946274740875254_8006436709880680672_n.jpg
A native of California and commissioned through Officer Candidate School, Wileman was at the beginning of a promising and illustrious career. As a senior first-tour Naval Aviator, she established herself as an energetic, vocal, and positive influence in VAQ-130. Known for her heart of gold, passion, and unrelenting smile, Wileman was always committed to improve and grow, not only for herself but every Sailor and officer around her.

During her 2023-24 deployment, Wileman planned and subsequently flew multiple strikes into Houthi-controlled territories in Yemen, one of the few women to fly combat missions over land. Wileman’s exceptional leadership was highlighted during VAQ-130’s “Dirt Det,” where she was designated the Officer in Charge. Overcoming the challenges of operating from an austere location, she successfully oversaw all detachment operations enabling the support of multiple flights in the defense of U.S. and Coalition forces in support of Operations INHERENT RESOLVE and PROSPERITY GUARDIAN.

Always a team player, Wileman was also a respected qualified Landing Signal Officer (LSO), a vital role in the squadron to ensure her fellow Naval Aviators safely recovered aboard the ship. Despite operating in a weapons engagement zone, her calm and collected demeanor under pressure showed during combat operations. Even when recovering alerts while IKE was being targeted and the CSG was under attack by Houthi terrorists, she executed flawlessly, bringing all CVW-3 aircraft aboard expeditiously and safely. From the LSO platform, Wileman always showcased her extraordinary composure and consistent ability to perform under pressure.

Due to her unrelenting efforts, Wileman accrued three Strike Flight Air Medals for her role in combat operations between December 17, 2023, and April 5, 2024.

Outside the cockpit, Wileman made everyone smile. She would brighten up any room and was known for her genuine care and compassion for those around her. She always brought a sense of calm, in the good times and bad, whether it was through a joke, a game of cribbage, or a giant bear hug for a Sailor in need of one.

The Bonds That Endure

Evans’ and Wileman’s strong connection to their families were second to none. Evans was close with her parents, who were immensely proud of her many accomplishments and were overjoyed when welcoming her back to NAS Whidbey Island on July 13th.

Wileman met her husband, Brandon, during flight school. Also a Naval Aviator, Brandon shared in her passion for flight, and together they supported each other through the challenges and successes of their careers. Wileman’s goal for follow-on orders after the Zappers was to remain co-located with Brandon.

Both Evans and Wileman shared lasting loyalty and commitment to their mentors, peers, and Sailors. They always lifted others up, even during the most challenging moments of deployment, knowing exactly how to take a quick break from the “stress” of the job and deployment and getting everyone’s heads back in the game.
They also bonded over their love of dogs: Evans, a proud “dog mom” to Nyx (an Australian Shepherd), and Wileman to Riley (a Dachshund/Chihuahua mix – “Chiweenie”). The two often flew together, sharing a deep understanding of the intricacies of Naval Aviation, and complemented each other well. They shared many moments together, from leading critical missions in combat zones during deployment to helping their Sailors and each other weather the mental strain of long deployments.
These women’s bond with each other reached well beyond the cockpit. They were both known for their humor and light-hearted spirit. A memorable moment came at a beachside pool, where, during a liberty port in Souda Bay, Crete, Evans and Wileman shared a laugh as two male squadron mates struggled to move a heavy umbrella. “Centuries of oppression have finally paid off,” they joked, representing the camaraderie and light heartedness that defined both of them.

A Legacy That Lives On

The legacy that Evans and Wileman leave behind is characterized by strength, courage, and inspiration. They embodied the very best of Naval Aviation and were examples that hard work, determination, and devotion to their passions could lead to exceptional achievements. They will remain role models for both women and men, embodying the true Navy warrior spirit.

Capt. Marvin Scott, Commander of CVW-3, said Evans and Wileman will be remembered for their tenacity, their outstanding contributions to the defense of others, and the positive energy they brought to Naval Aviation. “I have personally flown with both of these Great Americans in both training and dynamic combat operations, and they always performed professionally and precisely. As true leaders in the Growler community, VAQ-130, and across my Air Wing, their contributions cannot be overstated; I could not be more proud to have served with each of them,” said Scott. “Every member of the CVW-3 Battle Axe Team is heartbroken at the loss of these exceptional warriors; Dug and Miley truly represent the best that Naval Aviation has to offer, and they will absolutely be missed.”

As the Navy mourns the loss of these two exceptional aviators, their stories will continue to inspire generations of service members. They represent the best of the Navy and Naval Aviation: warriors who were steadfast in the face of danger, always prepared to lead, and compassionate to their fellow Sailors. Their memories will endure with the men and women of the Zappers, CVW-3, the entire IKE CSG, CVWP and Team Whidbey. Their legacies will live on, immortalized in the hearts of their families, friends, and all who had the privilege to serve alongside them.
 
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Anybody thinking weather might have been a factor? Seems like it got to snowing pretty soon after the crash.

What's the action if weather closes in on a low level terrain following route like that? Pop up and go IFR?
 
What's the action if weather closes in on a low level terrain following route like that? Pop up and go IFR?
Problem is the terrain. Odds are they aren’t going to be in comms / radar for ATC. Just gotta point the nose skyward and execute IIMC procedures.

@35 AoA would know but they could’ve been on a composite flight plan. DoD uses them a lot. Depart IFR, cancel and run the route, then they’ve got an IFR waiting for them at a waypoint around their destination. We had VR-1040 in my airspace. Sometimes they’d pop up and ask to pick up their clearance. Other times they just keep trucking along.
 
They can come f*king talk to me if they have questions, in person. I'll tell them where they can go f*** off to. Fortunately I don't care about what idiots say on FB.
Sorry you lost part of your team. EW pilots have always amazed me, since reading about the first Wild Weasel flights in Vietnam. More or less going into the most dangerous areas there are, and then waving arms around to attract attention for the benefit of the other aircraft and mission. Doesn't seem like a job for anyone that scares easily.
 
What's the action if weather closes in on a low level terrain following route like that? Pop up and go IFR?

I'd assume in a tactical jet like the F-18, plug in the burners and point it straight up until you find better weather.

Low level tactical flying is inherently risky, it only takes one distraction, one hesitation, one little hiccup, and you meet the ground at high speed. Terrible tragedy.
 
Remembering Two Trailblazing Aviators: Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman

On behalf of all of Team Whidbey, our condolences go out to the families of our fallen aviators.

In the world of U.S. Naval Aviation, very few names will be forever imprinted with their squadrons, their communities, and their shipmates. Among them are Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman, two highly skilled, combat-decorated aviators who tragically lost their lives during a routine training flight near Mount Rainier on Oct. 15, 2024. More than just names and ranks, they were role models, trailblazers, and women whose influence touched countless people on the flight deck and well beyond.

They had recently returned from a deployment with their squadron, Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 130, “Zappers,” with whom they spent nine months at sea as a part of Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) aboard USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (IKE). Operating mostly from the Red Sea, they supported Operations INHERENT RESOLVE, PROSPERITY GUARDIAN, and POSEIDON ARCHER, where they were involved in the most dynamic combat action in defense of the strike group and freedom of navigation since World War II.

During their deployment, both Evans and Wileman distinguished themselves in combat operations. Their efforts directly contributed to the Navy’s mission defending U.S. and Coalition forces while keeping the seas open and free with precision and purpose. These role models cemented legacies by making history that will inspire future generations of Naval officers and aviators.

Born to Lead: Lyndsay “Miley” Evans
View attachment 134479
Following her time at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Evans was commissioned through the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) and earned her “Wings of Gold” as a Naval Flight Officer out of Naval Air Station (NAS) Pensacola. While familiar with the spotlight, Evans always carried herself as a humble yet strong leader – the quiet professional. As an EA-18G Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO) and veteran of two sea tours, she earned the respect of the entire Growler community for her tactical expertise, mentorship to those of all ranks and communities, and ability to bring out the best in everyone around her.

In 2023, Evans was part of the all-female Super Bowl flyover, a historic moment marking 50 years of women flying in the Navy. This event also symbolized the progress of women in aviation across all military branches. But for those who knew her best, this was only one highlight in a notable career defined by high performance and distinction. After completing the challenging 12-week HAVOC graduate-level course at NAS Fallon (the TOPGUN of the Growler community), Evans earned the honor and responsibility of becoming a Growler Tactics Instructor (GTI). Living up to this responsibility daily, her approachable and knowledgeable demeanor enabled the training and development of countless junior EA-18G Pilots and EWOs. Therefore, it was no surprise to her mentors and peers when she was recognized as the FY2024 Growler Tactics Instructor of the Year, a prestigious honor earned through her tactical acumen and sustained leadership.

During her 2023-24 deployment with CVW-3 on the IKE Carrier Strike Group (IKE CSG) in the Red Sea, Evans coordinated and executed multiple combat strikes into Houthi-controlled territories in Yemen, making her one of the few women to fly combat missions over land. In her critical role as VAQ-130’s Training Officer, she helped develop and execute new warfare tactics that required knowledge, innovation, and a comprehensive understanding of aerial warfare and electronic attack in a nascent theater against a constantly evolving threat. The tactics, techniques, and procedures for the EA-18G she pioneered defending against Houthi aggression directly contributed to the successful defense of the entire CSG and will be used as a template for adaptability at the unrelenting pace of combat in future fights.

Evans was awarded two Single Action Air Medals for her exceptional performance during strikes on January 12 and 22, 2024. She also earned three Strike Flight Air Medals for her contributions to missions flown between December 21, 2023, and March 29, 2024.

The Heart and Soul: Serena “Dug” Wileman
View attachment 134480
A native of California and commissioned through Officer Candidate School, Wileman was at the beginning of a promising and illustrious career. As a senior first-tour Naval Aviator, she established herself as an energetic, vocal, and positive influence in VAQ-130. Known for her heart of gold, passion, and unrelenting smile, Wileman was always committed to improve and grow, not only for herself but every Sailor and officer around her.

During her 2023-24 deployment, Wileman planned and subsequently flew multiple strikes into Houthi-controlled territories in Yemen, one of the few women to fly combat missions over land. Wileman’s exceptional leadership was highlighted during VAQ-130’s “Dirt Det,” where she was designated the Officer in Charge. Overcoming the challenges of operating from an austere location, she successfully oversaw all detachment operations enabling the support of multiple flights in the defense of U.S. and Coalition forces in support of Operations INHERENT RESOLVE and PROSPERITY GUARDIAN.

Always a team player, Wileman was also a respected qualified Landing Signal Officer (LSO), a vital role in the squadron to ensure her fellow Naval Aviators safely recovered aboard the ship. Despite operating in a weapons engagement zone, her calm and collected demeanor under pressure showed during combat operations. Even when recovering alerts while IKE was being targeted and the CSG was under attack by Houthi terrorists, she executed flawlessly, bringing all CVW-3 aircraft aboard expeditiously and safely. From the LSO platform, Wileman always showcased her extraordinary composure and consistent ability to perform under pressure.

Due to her unrelenting efforts, Wileman accrued three Strike Flight Air Medals for her role in combat operations between December 17, 2023, and April 5, 2024.

Outside the cockpit, Wileman made everyone smile. She would brighten up any room and was known for her genuine care and compassion for those around her. She always brought a sense of calm, in the good times and bad, whether it was through a joke, a game of cribbage, or a giant bear hug for a Sailor in need of one.

The Bonds That Endure

Evans’ and Wileman’s strong connection to their families were second to none. Evans was close with her parents, who were immensely proud of her many accomplishments and were overjoyed when welcoming her back to NAS Whidbey Island on July 13th.

Wileman met her husband, Brandon, during flight school. Also a Naval Aviator, Brandon shared in her passion for flight, and together they supported each other through the challenges and successes of their careers. Wileman’s goal for follow-on orders after the Zappers was to remain co-located with Brandon.

Both Evans and Wileman shared lasting loyalty and commitment to their mentors, peers, and Sailors. They always lifted others up, even during the most challenging moments of deployment, knowing exactly how to take a quick break from the “stress” of the job and deployment and getting everyone’s heads back in the game.
They also bonded over their love of dogs: Evans, a proud “dog mom” to Nyx (an Australian Shepherd), and Wileman to Riley (a Dachshund/Chihuahua mix – “Chiweenie”). The two often flew together, sharing a deep understanding of the intricacies of Naval Aviation, and complemented each other well. They shared many moments together, from leading critical missions in combat zones during deployment to helping their Sailors and each other weather the mental strain of long deployments.
These women’s bond with each other reached well beyond the cockpit. They were both known for their humor and light-hearted spirit. A memorable moment came at a beachside pool, where, during a liberty port in Souda Bay, Crete, Evans and Wileman shared a laugh as two male squadron mates struggled to move a heavy umbrella. “Centuries of oppression have finally paid off,” they joked, representing the camaraderie and light heartedness that defined both of them.

A Legacy That Lives On

The legacy that Evans and Wileman leave behind is characterized by strength, courage, and inspiration. They embodied the very best of Naval Aviation and were examples that hard work, determination, and devotion to their passions could lead to exceptional achievements. They will remain role models for both women and men, embodying the true Navy warrior spirit.

Capt. Marvin Scott, Commander of CVW-3, said Evans and Wileman will be remembered for their tenacity, their outstanding contributions to the defense of others, and the positive energy they brought to Naval Aviation. “I have personally flown with both of these Great Americans in both training and dynamic combat operations, and they always performed professionally and precisely. As true leaders in the Growler community, VAQ-130, and across my Air Wing, their contributions cannot be overstated; I could not be more proud to have served with each of them,” said Scott. “Every member of the CVW-3 Battle Axe Team is heartbroken at the loss of these exceptional warriors; Dug and Miley truly represent the best that Naval Aviation has to offer, and they will absolutely be missed.”

As the Navy mourns the loss of these two exceptional aviators, their stories will continue to inspire generations of service members. They represent the best of the Navy and Naval Aviation: warriors who were steadfast in the face of danger, always prepared to lead, and compassionate to their fellow Sailors. Their memories will endure with the men and women of the Zappers, CVW-3, the entire IKE CSG, CVWP and Team Whidbey. Their legacies will live on, immortalized in the hearts of their families, friends, and all who had the privilege to serve alongside them.
Two aviators and persons that made a difference. My condolences to their families, friends, and squadron mates. Thank you for posting this.
 
Problem is the terrain. Odds are they aren’t going to be in comms / radar for ATC. Just gotta point the nose skyward and execute IIMC procedures.

@35 AoA would know but they could’ve been on a composite flight plan. DoD uses them a lot. Depart IFR, cancel and run the route, then they’ve got an IFR waiting for them at a waypoint around their destination. We had VR-1040 in my airspace. Sometimes they’d pop up and ask to pick up their clearance. Other times they just keep trucking along.

Yeah on a technical level, that's what typically is done for routing on these. This particular route, especially the segments north of where they were, can get a little spicy if you need to pop off. I've had to do it plenty of times, and it is a fun phone game trying to get someone with SEA CTR on freq. So I normally just stay in the low teens, at a VFR altitude while we wait for 2 way radio contact & clearance, trying to avoid spots where I know the CHINS and GLASR cross over. For the record, no intent to speculate here, nor am I suggesting anything I just wrote would have had anything to do with this.
 
We lost a squadron commander who popped off a low level. The most classic case of CFIT ever to happen… hit 10 degrees nose down, 10 degrees angle of bank. No one is immune.

It was a flight of two. CAG/DCAG (not a great idea, just because), Squadron CO/ADMIRAL (ship driver, good guy) all goin to see new F18 program late 90s. Formation low level, weather coming down, took heading splits, started a climb, two went in the goo, one came out the top. Just as routine as possible. Mountainous terrain, may have been the same area.

Have to just sit tight and see if they can find a smoking gun. The range of possibilities is staggering, until more info, useless to hazard a guess.

While supporting an agenda over capability has reared its head even at the boat… not much so, and a long time ago. Despite it being a useless guess, I WOULD say it’s not the case here.
 
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