"Inspected oil filter, found no metal" - myth or reality?

14 CFR Appendix-D-to-Part-43(d)(3)

Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour Inspections

(d) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) components of the engine and nacelle group as follows:

(3) Internal engine—for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.
Click to expand...
 
Rcmutz said:
What engine was that from? Did you have any other indications? If it was the cam lobes, was the engine making static RPM?
Click to expand...

This was from a Lycoming O-360 C1F in a Maule MX7. I had been doing regular oil analysis with Blackstone and all was looking good until I found metal. Once I found metal, I stopped doing additional oil analysis since the damage was so obvious. The engine still makes static RPM, it has full oil pressure and seems to perform well. I'm sure it is down on power, but the power loss has been gradual, so I haven't noticed it from flight to flight. Getting all the bower back (and then some) with a rebuilt engine that has been flowed and ported will be fun. After a 6 month wait, my rebuilt engine from LyCon will be ready later this month. The engine had 2400 hours on the tach, so I have nothing to complain about. I had been using CAMGUARD with Phillips Victory 20W/50 oil.
 
Flyhound said:
This was from a Lycoming O-360 C1F in a Maule MX7. I had been doing regular oil analysis with Blackstone and all was looking good until I found metal. Once I found metal, I stopped doing additional oil analysis since the damage was so obvious. The engine still makes static RPM, it has full oil pressure and seems to perform well. I'm sure it is down on power, but the power loss has been gradual, so I haven't noticed it from flight to flight. Getting all the bower back (and then some) with a rebuilt engine that has been flowed and ported will be fun. After a 6 month wait, my rebuilt engine from LyCon will be ready later this month. The engine had 2400 hours on the tach, so I have nothing to complain about. I had been using CAMGUARD with Phillips Victory 20W/50 oil.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. One thing is, if you are using Phillips Victory, I do not believe you need to add CamGuard. It already has the Lycoming anti wear, scuff additive in it. The non-Victory does not have it. I used to use that with CamGuard before switching over.

Victory AW 20W-50 is pre-blended with the proper concentration of anti-scuff/anti-wear additive (LW-16702) mandated by Lycoming Service Bulletins 446E and 471B and Service Instruction 1409C.
 
Rcmutz said:
Thanks for the reply. One thing is, if you are using Phillips Victory, I do not believe you need to add CamGuard. It already has the Lycoming anti wear, scuff additive in it. The non-Victory does not have it. I used to use that with CamGuard before switching over.

Victory AW 20W-50 is pre-blended with the proper concentration of anti-scuff/anti-wear additive (LW-16702) mandated by Lycoming Service Bulletins 446E and 471B and Service Instruction 1409C.
Click to expand...
I don't use CamGuard, but worth noting it is not an anti-wear/scuff additive. It is an anti-corrosion additive.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I don't use CamGuard, but worth noting it is not an anti-wear/scuff additive. It is an anti-corrosion additive.
Click to expand...

Camguard's website claims it is an antiwear additive.

aslcamguard.com

Engine Oil Anti Wear Additive Oklahoma | Camguard

Boost your engine's protection in Oklahoma with Camguard's Engine Oil Anti Wear Additive. Experience enhanced performance and durability.
aslcamguard.com aslcamguard.com

That said, Camguard is not the same as what is in the Aeroshell plus oils and the Phillips Victory oils. A lot of people seem convinced it is, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary out there, if people look for it.
 
mondtster said:
Camguard's website claims it is an antiwear additive.

aslcamguard.com

Engine Oil Anti Wear Additive Oklahoma | Camguard

Boost your engine's protection in Oklahoma with Camguard's Engine Oil Anti Wear Additive. Experience enhanced performance and durability.
aslcamguard.com aslcamguard.com

That said, Camguard is not the same as what is in the Aeroshell plus oils and the Phillips Victory oils. A lot of people seem convinced it is, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary out there, if people look for it.
Click to expand...
From the Aeroshell 15W50 MSDS:

1707696861905.png
I think it's the triphenyl phosphate that's the anti-scuffing additive.

From the Lycoming LW-16702 MSDS:

1707696968491.png

So, phenyls and phosphates again. I'm no chemist, but I'd suggest that since the Aeroshell 15W50 contains the LW-16702, we have some commonality here.

From the Camguard MSDS:

1707697101522.png

It's a proprietary mix, so no details on the chemistry, but I see phosphates again, suggesting perhaps that those are the antiwear components, and maybe the carboxylates are the anticorrosion bit.

I can tell you that we ran the 15W50 year-round in the flight-school airplanes, and those engines were in beautiful condition at TBO. Little or no metal in the filters, compressions still in the high 80s, engines still making max static power. When I put that oil in my ancient A-65, the oil temperature dropped by about 30 degrees, telling me that the engine's internal friction had decreased dramatically.
 
I realize this thread is 8 months old but thought I would share a video from the folks at Savvy. He gets into some detail about metals in an oil filter. What are acceptable amounts etc.

He also reviews a concerning oil analysis from Blackstone.

I just finished cutting open my filter after dumping the W100 for my winter oil 20W-50. Filter looks fine.

Will be sending off a sample to Blackstone. Last report everything was good except I had elevated SILCON level of 21. 3x the norm.

They believe it was due to the recent overhaul and they expect the levels will decrease with the next sample.


 
Dan Thomas said:
Some will even get blown out of the exhaust. Flame tends to ablate (erode) surfaces. Particles left behind on the piston downstroke might be more likely to get exhausted.

If the filter got it all, it would then get all the carbon, too, and the oil would only be somewhat darkened by the heat, still mostly transparent, not so opaque and black.
Click to expand...
This. Our combustion chambers are a blowtorch and tornado all in one. Picture the exhaust stroke...a hot, dry cylinder with abrasive carbon bits swirling around, with the hot compression rings chattering and grinding up the sides of the cylinders. The rings twist and rock in the lands and grooves, aerosolizing the aluminum and then blowing out the exhaust valve.

Theres a lot of brutal, gnarly stuff going on in these engines. Its impressive that they last as long as they do.
 
Mooney Fan said:
Will be sending off a sample to Blackstone. Last report everything was good except I had elevated SILCON level of 21. 3x the norm.

They believe it was due to the recent overhaul and they expect the levels will decrease with the next sample.
Click to expand...
High silicon levels are typically indicative of an air filtration issue. I never saw high silicon levels when my undergraduates were analyzing my oil for me unless I had a defective air filter or air was otherwise bypassing filtration. It's worth checking.
 
I had elevated silicon on one analysis, which Blackstone said was likely due to filtration. It was. RV’s with a carb use a K&N donut filter inside a fiberglass airbox. Over time, the filter deforms from being squeezed, and mine was at that stage. New filter, fly and put on hours, and next oil change silicon was back to the previous level. We’re on a grass taxiway in Florida, which means very sandy ground - lots of silicon coming in makes sense.
 
@chemgeek how is an oil sample introduced into an ICP? I’ve run water samples through a nebulizer, but have no idea how oil is done (yeah, I could probably look it up, but this is one of few “social media” that I participate in and feeling social :) ).
 
TL<DNR everything.

But another incorrect assumption was that all the wear particles are steel. There is also aluminum, lead (babbitt bearings), chrome, etc.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
@chemgeek how is an oil sample introduced into an ICP? I’ve run water samples through a nebulizer, but have no idea how oil is done (yeah, I could probably look it up, but this is one of few “social media” that I participate in and feeling social :) ).
Click to expand...
Typically, the oil sample is diluted with an organic solvent to reduce the viscosity for proper nebulization. I have my students dilute it 1:10 and use internal spike standards to reduce matrix effects that can be very problematic if using external standards of differing viscosity. The major systematic error issue in ICP is nebulization efficiency, which is very sensitive to matrix effects like viscosity.

A technique I like much better is TXRF. It is done on microliter dried samples on plastic disks with an internal standard, and is very easy to automate and perform. A small sample diluted in polyvinyl alcohol and dried to a hard film (with internal standard) is really simple and reasonably sensitive for many elements.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top