Disqualifying TSA question(s)

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unknown1981

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A friend has a PWID felony conviction from 2021. Will this be triggered or flagged on the student pilot application when they file in the IACRA? The FAA says it has to be 1 year from conviction but does the IACRA cross-check this for anything other than terrorist activity (or anything else in TSA)? Can a student aiming to take pilots lessons be issued a final student pilot certificate with this on the record 3 years after conviction (they already served their time)? If the answer is yes will there be more hurdles later on? If the answer is no what is the appeals process?
 
The FAA doesn't give a flying fig if you "did your time or not."

I have no clue why you think IACRA has anything to do with this. It's just a form filling out program.

The big issue is if they think you are a drug user (likely), then it is going to be a protracted process to get a medical.
If they think your criminal history is the result of mental health issues, it's even worse.
 
flyingron said:
The FAA doesn't give a flying fig if you "did your time or not."

I have no clue why you think IACRA has anything to do with this. It's just a form filling out program.

The big issue is if they think you are a drug user (likely), then it is going to be a protracted process to get a medical.
If they think your criminal history is the result of mental health issues, it's even worse.
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It was not for drug use. It’s a PWID. There are no mental health issues. Asking because there is a FRN that states that before FAA approves the student pilot application on the IACRA it goes thru TSA and is a PWID going to show up on the clearance?
 
unknown1981 said:
It was not for drug use. It’s a PWID. There are no mental health issues. Asking because there is a FRN that states that before FAA approves the student pilot application on the IACRA it goes thru TSA and is a PWID going to show up on the clearance?
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Oklahoma City is going to assume that PWID implies you were taking the drugs, too. You can argue that you were an absolutely clean sociopath, but that isn't going to get you very far. You're not walking out of an AME office with a third class.
 
flyingron said:
Oklahoma City is going to assume that PWID implies you were taking the drugs, too. You can argue that you were an absolutely clean sociopath, but that isn't going to get you very far. You're not walking out of an AME office with a third class.
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But there are medical records showing the person has never used drugs due to testing. The problem is not using — it’s PWID. Completely unrelated to taking drugs. The person is not a user, they don’t have a use issue as the charge is a PWID.
 
You try arguing that with Joklahoma city.
 
flyingron said:
You try arguing that with Joklahoma city.
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The FAA and TSA regs explicitly state users won’t pass a 3rd class. This person is not a user nor has a record of any drug use. It’s a PWID. Organized crime, distribution of non-narcotics, etc. But my question is if this will show up on the TSA cross-check when you apply on the IACRA site and if that is reason for the student pilot certificate being denied if it’s not explicitly stated on FAAs site that it would trigger a denial.
 
Just so I am clear I’m looking thru the FRN (federal register notice) about student pilot applications. I posted the heading here and am wondering if anyone else came across this situation.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Parts 61 and 183
[Docket No.: FAA–2010–1127; Amdt. Nos. 61–135 and 183–15]
RIN 2120–AJ42
Student Pilot Application Requirements
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT. ACTION: Final rule.
SUMMARY: This action requires applicants to apply for a student pilot certificate through a Flight Standards District Office, designated pilot examiner, airman certification representative associated with a pilot school, or certified flight instructor. Aviation Medical Examiners will no longer issue a combination medical certificate and student pilot certificate. Student pilot certificates will be issued on the same medium as other pilot certificates and will have no expiration date. All student pilot certificates issued before the effective date of this final rule will expire according to their terms unless they are replaced by another pilot certificate. This final rule responds to section 4012 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act and facilitates security vetting by the Transportation Security Administration of student pilot applicants prior to certificate issuance.
 
I understand what you are saying, but you are getting bent around the student pilot certificate issuance which is irrelevant. You can't use the student pilot certificate without a third class medical issuance. You are required to REPORT this conviction on you application (omitting it is also a felony). Again, you can argue that you were a stone-cold-sober entrepreneur, but the FAA won't see it that way. First, they WILL assume you were using drugs no matter what you weasel about it. Second, you push how being a drug dealer is hunky dory and they'll assume you've got sociopathic tendencies that are also disqualifying.
 
flyingron said:
I understand what you are saying, but you are getting bent around the student pilot certificate issuance which is irrelevant. You can't use the student pilot certificate without a third class medical issuance. You are required to REPORT this conviction on you application (omitting it is also a felony). Again, you can argue that you were a stone-cold-sober entrepreneur, but the FAA won't see it that way. First, they WILL assume you were using drugs no matter what you weasel about it. Second, you push how being a drug dealer is hunky dory and they'll assume you've got sociopathic tendencies that are also disqualifying.
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The IACRA application doesn’t require reporting what you were convicted of, just whether you have a conviction related to substances (section O on the 8710 actually). My main QUESTION is if the IACRA will cross check with TSA and if that conviction — a PWID — is a qualifying denial for the student pilot certificate. The person will pass the medical easily, but how is the conviction going to impact the issuance of the SPC?
 
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Again, IACRA is not the problem. It's MEDEXPRESS that you are required to disclose your criminal history on. It is going to be disqualifying.

All IACRA cares about is whether you're a terrorist (or committed certain very heinous or transportation related crimes).
 
flyingron said:
I understand what you are saying, but you are getting bent around the student pilot certificate issuance which is irrelevant. You can't use the student pilot certificate without a third class medical issuance. You are required to REPORT this conviction on you application (omitting it is also a felony). Again, you can argue that you were a stone-cold-sober entrepreneur, but the FAA won't see it that way. First, they WILL assume you were using drugs no matter what you weasel about it. Second, you push how being a drug dealer is hunky dory and they'll assume you've got sociopathic tendencies that are also disqualifying.
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Also…the law is prescriptive. The federal AME handbooks and student handbooks which are designed to tell the public how to implement the law do not say an AME is going to put you thru the ringer because of something in your criminal history that has nothing to do with your medical capacity to pilot a plane. If that were the case then there wouldn’t be regulations on how you can fly after a 1 year drug related conviction in the FAA regs, or the 5 year qualifying for commercial, or the 10 year TSA rule. It’s unrelated to medical. I’m talking administrative here, not medical.
 
flyingron said:
Again, IACRA is not the problem. It's MEDEXPRESS that you are required to disclose your criminal history on. It is going to be disqualifying.

All IACRA cares about is whether you're a terrorist (or committed certain very heinous or transportation related crimes).
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Ok now we’re getting somewhere. Does IACRA cross link with TSA though for felony drug distribution charges and would that be a reason to deny the student application submitted on IACRA?
 
flyingron said:
Again, IACRA is not the problem. It's MEDEXPRESS that you are required to disclose your criminal history on. It is going to be disqualifying.

All IACRA cares about is whether you're a terrorist (or committed certain very heinous or transportation related crimes).
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Also want to add…I just skimmed over the 8500 and it doesn’t ask about convictions related to distribution. Only if a person has ever been a drug user and convicted. So MedEcpress won’t deny this person if the AME comes back perfect (which it will). Just guess my question is related to the PWID on the IACRA all then that I posted before…

People really ought to read the law and regs before commenting…
 
IACRA isn’t the issue; get the student pilot license then proceed down sport pilot path where no medical is required.
 
TCABM said:
IACRA isn’t the issue; get the student pilot license then proceed down sport pilot path where no medical is required.
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If you go down sport path and decide to be a private pilot later…would a medical be required later on?
 
TCABM said:
IACRA isn’t the issue; get the student pilot license then proceed down sport pilot path where no medical is required.
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Also…this type of conviction isn’t asked about on medical. Just on the student pilot application submitted to IACRA. Why is there an assumption then it would show up on the medical (there’s not even a question on the 8500 that asks about this type of charge)?
 
unknown1981 said:
Also…this type of conviction isn’t asked about on medical. Just on the student pilot application submitted to IACRA. Why is there an assumption then it would show up on the medical (there’s not even a question on the 8500 that asks about this type of charge)?
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It most certainly is. All non-traffic (meaning driving not drug trafficking) misdemeanors and felonies MUST be reported.
 
unknown1981 said:
If you go down sport path and decide to be a private pilot later…would a medical be required later on?
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Yes. There is no way to get a private pilot certificate without holding a medical at least once.
 
man, I think the inability to focus long enough to understand what multiple people have told you a dozen times is probably an even bigger blocker to your becoming a pilot. But iacra and tsa! As has been said multiple times, those aren’t the problem. The medical is.


Here’s a question back. What difference does it make? Fill out the form and find out.
 
Salty said:
man, I think the inability to focus long enough to understand what multiple people have told you a dozen times is probably an even bigger blocker to your becoming a pilot. But iacra and tsa! As has been said multiple times, those aren’t the problem. The medical is.


Here’s a question back. What difference does it make? Fill out the form and find out.
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Some of us work in policy and know how to read the regs. Maybe reread the question I posted and give an opinion. It’s not a medical question buddy, it’s an administrative one smh. Try to reread and respond to the question at hand versus the one you think is being asked. Time to get our thinking caps cleaned up people ‍♀️
 
flyingron said:
It most certainly is. All non-traffic (meaning driving not drug trafficking) misdemeanors and felonies MUST be reported.
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Right but not on MedExpress. I’m looking at the 8500 and MedExpress interface right now and non-user convictions aren’t recorded on the medical. User related ones are though. It’s actually letter “v” on the form (which has a place in the MedExpress application). They ask if you’re convicted of something related to USING not DISTRIBUTING. Totally different in the eyes of the Feds.
 
I give up. You're not interested in understanding or listening. You're dangerously wrong. 18w. on 8500-8 (WHICH OFFICIALLY DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE) and the equivalent medical history question on MEDEXPRESS ask about "History of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies)." It can't be any plainer than that.
 
unknown1981 said:
Right but not on MedExpress. I’m looking at the 8500 and MedExpress interface right now and non-user convictions aren’t recorded on the medical. User related ones are though. It’s actually letter “v” on the form (which has a place in the MedExpress application). They ask if you’re convicted of something related to USING not DISTRIBUTING. Totally different in the eyes of the Feds.
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And what is letter “w” on the medical form?
IMG_2432.jpeg
 
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unknown1981 said:
Some of us work in policy and know how to read the regs. Maybe reread the question I posted and give an opinion. It’s not a medical question buddy, it’s an administrative one smh. Try to reread and respond to the question at hand versus the one you think is being asked. Time to get our thinking caps cleaned up people ‍♀️
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Salty said:
man, I think the inability to focus long enough to understand what multiple people have told you a dozen times is probably an even bigger blocker to your becoming a pilot. But iacra and tsa! As has been said multiple times, those aren’t the problem. The medical is.


Here’s a question back. What difference does it make? Fill out the form and find out.
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Wheels said:
And what is letter “w” on the medical form?
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Non-traffic conviction. But like I said, this person will pass the medical based on the reg (49 CFR 61.15 (a)(1)) which only requires a year out from conviction. Not worried about that. Again, the question is about the cross link between TSA and IACRA.
 
flyingron said:
I give up. You're not interested in understanding or listening. You're dangerously wrong. 18w. on 8500-8 (WHICH OFFICIALLY DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE) and the equivalent medical history question on MEDEXPRESS ask about "History of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies)." It can't be any plainer than that.
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Actually the document is still in use under the OPM federal forms system and if you go on the FAA site it’s still active (8500-8). Just because MedXpress was created doesn’t mean the form is obsolete smh. As I noted above W asks that but 49 CFR 61.15(a)(1) and the Aviation Instructor Handbook (published on FAA 2020) outlines only a year conviction would be reason for denial. HOWEVER THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION BEING ASKED!!

The question AGAIN for the millionth time is:

Do iacra and tsa interfaces cross link and if they do then does the system flag for a PWID at the point a student applies for the SPC? It can’t be that difficult folks to get this right. Stop caring about the persons situation and just answer the question. Man.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m really glad the system has the restrictions and speedbumps as it does. There are people that need to stay out of the flight deck, and it seems to find who these are, rather well.
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Sure. But there’s also people trying to make a career out of their lives and turn it around. Stop judging. I know plenty of pilots who have been arrested and charged for everything from domestic abuse to drugs and within a year gotten their license back. Some are prolly flying you out on a commercial airline. People deserve second chances. And the FAA allows that.
 
flyingron said:
It most certainly is. All non-traffic (meaning driving not drug trafficking) misdemeanors and felonies MUST be reported.
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Also, this person doesn’t have “driving not drug trafficking misdemeanors or felonies” on their record.
 
You asked we pilots who are more expert than you. You got excellent advice and a direct valid answer to your question. Pay heed.
 
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455 Bravo Uniform said:
You asked we pilots who are more expert than you. You got excellent advice and a direct valid answer to your question. Pay heed.
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But I’m still not getting a response to the question I posted.

Again, the question is simply if IACRA interfaces with TSA at point of application for the SPC. Period. Can someone answer that?
 
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unknown1981 said:
Some of us work in policy and know how to read the regs. Maybe reread the question I posted and give an opinion. It’s not a medical question buddy, it’s an administrative one smh. Try to reread and respond to the question at hand versus the one you think is being asked. Time to get our thinking caps cleaned up people ‍♀️
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What you’re not understanding is that your question only addresses half the issue. And not even the important half.
 
mryan75 said:
What you’re not understanding is that your question only addresses half the issue. And not even the important half.
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We understand the implications on the medical. We get it. But it would really help to understand process which is why we asked that question.
 
unknown1981 said:
Non-traffic conviction. But like I said, this person will pass the medical based on the reg (49 CFR 61.15 (a)(1)) which only requires a year out from conviction. Not worried about that. Again, the question is about the cross link between TSA and IACRA.
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For someone who works in regs and knows how to read them, you don’t seem to understand that the reg you quoted isn’t applicable to medical certificates. Sigh.
 
unknown1981 said:
Non-traffic conviction. But like I said, this person will pass the medical based on the reg (49 CFR 61.15 (a)(1)) which only requires a year out from conviction. Not worried about that. Again, the question is about the cross link between TSA and IACRA.
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Fail. 61.15 applies to “The requirements for issuing pilot, flight instructor, and ground instructor certificates and ratings; the conditions under which those certificates and ratings are necessary; and the privileges and limitations of those certificates and ratings.”

Not medicals.
 
Mike0125 said:
The FAA may have provisions that provide a path to certification but I can tell you, with a PWID conviction, getting past HR/hiring manager with any 121/135 will be extremely difficult. As a former hiring manager, I’d need to see a squeaky clean 10 year record post conviction.
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Thank you for the response. It was very kind to read this! The person is hoping to preliminarily get to instructor and is not thinking commercial yet because he knows he won’t get hired within 10 years. We’re going off the regs primarily as the person is working hard to turn their life around.
 
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