I admit I’m terrible at naming things. I’m a software developer by trade and I can write good code very quickly until I have to name a variable or function. DoStuff() DoMoreStuff()Ha! This is PoA - Pedants of America.
I admit I’m terrible at naming things. I’m a software developer by trade and I can write good code very quickly until I have to name a variable or function. DoStuff() DoMoreStuff()Ha! This is PoA - Pedants of America.
I guess so if they didn't affect the safety of the flight.So of my seven engine failures/shutdowns, maybe one met those definitions, because for the others to degrade to a distress condition, I’d have to screw up.
I admit I’m terrible at naming things. I’m a software developer by trade and I can write good code very quickly until I have to name a variable or function. DoStuff() DoMoreStuff()
That.... is a smart way of putting it. I'm writing that one down.Does anyone ever think “should I dial 911”? If you think that, then you should/should have. Same thing here.
any idea what these issues were?....However, on the water I've heard it a number of times over my boat's radio in just the past few years so anecdotally it seems to get much more usage in the maritime environment to include by the USCG.
The last one I heard was over a year ago and was a repeated call by the USCG for an overturned boat that was bobbing around posing a hazard to navigationany idea what these issues were?
One item on my emergency landing checklist is to activate the ELT and PLB. I keep the PLB in a side pocket and plan to clip it to my shirt before landing. Recognizing that it can come loose, I’m probably going to assemble a very basic survival kit in a cross-chest sling pack that can be thrown on in two seconds.
The last one I heard was over a year ago and was a repeated call by the USCG for an overturned boat that was bobbing around posing a hazard to navigation
I'm no boating expert but I'd think the pan pan should come before the boat sinking.
Given your background I'd bet you're more accustomed to emergency situations than most.One item on my emergency landing checklist is to activate the ELT and PLB. I keep the PLB in a side pocket and plan to clip it to my shirt before landing. Recognizing that it can come loose, I’m probably going to assemble a very basic survival kit in a cross-chest sling pack that can be thrown on in two seconds. Contents will be the PLB, orange signal cloth, mirror, tourniquet and a couple compression dressings (Israeli bandages) - signal for help, stop bleeding.
So of my seven engine failures/shutdowns, maybe one met those definitions, because for the others to degrade to a distress condition, I’d have to screw up.
Over twenty years ago, I heard someone make a pan pan call at my home (towered) field. (I don't remember what the problem was.)As an observation, I've never heard anyone make a Pan-Pan call in the air in almost 40 years of flying. However, on the water I've heard it a number of times over my boat's radio in just the past few years so anecdotally it seems to get much more usage in the maritime environment to include by the USCG.
I've noticed that the fan doesn't necessarily stop turning when there's a total power loss. That's why I mistook the windmilling for a partial power loss when I had my fuel-starvation incident. I still declared mayday (3x), because I was in the perfect setup for a safe forced landing at the towered field I had just taken off from, and I didn't want to take a chance of anything (e.g., traffic) screwing that up!...As LEO you are intimately familiar with fight-or-flight instinct and tunnel vision. Same thing happens when the pilot fan stops turning and you get close to the ground, especially the first time.
Sure…but if you’re concerned about engines quitting for no reason, you should probably just declare the emergency prior to takeoff.Or the other engine quits.
You don’t think there is a bigger chance of a second failure? Nothing common like fuel flow that could impact the other engine also? Also, theoretically you're gonna work the other engine harder than normal.Sure…but if you’re concerned about engines quitting for no reason, you should probably just declare the emergency prior to takeoff.
Oh yeah. Now I want pizzaAnyone else think of the Little Caesar's ads when they introduced pan pizzas after reading the thread title?
Not if the reason for the first one had nothing to do with those things.You don’t think there is a bigger chance of a second failure? Nothing common like fuel flow that could impact the other engine also? Also, theoretically you're gonna work the other engine harder than normal.
Except for the part where ATC comes back and asks you for FOB and SOB when you're still most likely actively working to the point of saturation to deal with the emergency.For me, declaring frees up mental bandwidth.
Like others, I've never heard a pan-pan. I think the prevailing philosophy in the industry is that there isn't a downside to going full Mayday right off the bat, so just do it.I understand that, but I do think it's an unusual thread title given that pilots in the States tend to talk about 'declaring an emergency' without any consideration to actually saying "Mayday" or "Pan Pan" to make the distinction to ATC. I opened the thread thinking we'd be discussing Pan Pan specifically, but it seems we're back to just talking about when to "declare". That's where I figured FT was coming from.
I don't think you're obliged to answer the question in that situation, much less even pay attention to the question.Except for the part where ATC comes back and asks you for FOB and SOB when you're still most likely actively working to the point of saturation to deal with the emergency.
True, but they aren’t going to let you alone and it will be distracting.I don't think you're obliged to answer the question in that situation, much less even pay attention to the question.
I suppose you could do that, but do you think the tower would issue a takeoff clearence?Sure…but if you’re concerned about engines quitting for no reason, you should probably just declare the emergency prior to takeoff.
Somehow, I doubt they'll be that tenacious depending on what you declared (e.g. "Mayday, I'm on fire")True, but they aren’t going to let you alone and it will be distracting.
If they weren’t tenacious to some degree there would be no point in telling them. They are not going to sit around and do nothing for very long without asking for an update. Even beyond their duties, it’s human nature. Eventually they are going to ask for status. Which will distract you even if you ignore them.Somehow, I doubt they'll be that tenacious depending on what you declared (e.g. "Mayday, I'm on fire")
You made the right call. The issue was probably the recent maintenance, but you did not know that for sure.So I’ve questioned myself if I really needed to make that call. I’ve settled on in that moment I was right to do it, I was rusty as plane had been down for the fuel leak for some time, I was in area far different than what I’m used to, major maintenance had just been completed, etc.
I could have sorted it out in my own a minute more on my own and likely carried on with not much ado. So I’ve questioned myself if I really needed to make that call. I’ve settled on in that moment I was right to do it, I was rusty as plane had been down for the fuel leak for some time, I was in area far different than what I’m used to, major maintenance had just been completed, etc. I did it without panick or even debate on doing it- I did it reflexively. So for the errors I made that day, which I did and I’m sure some will point out even though I’m confessing, I don’t regret the call I made.
You made the right call. The issue was probably the recent maintenance, but you did not know that for sure.
Thank you, and I really couldn’t agree more. My frustration with myself was not running her on the ground on both tanks. So common sense and I didn’t do it. Once things happened I’ve decided I was correct in how I handled it. But was sharing my thinking on analyzing it- I think after my errors that caused it to happen I was happy w how I handled it and don’t regret declaring at all.@Huckster79 you did not know what you know now. Don’t let your experience here make you second guess the next time something else happens.
My conjecture is that a learning experience like this can have a negative outcome - don’t “what if” your next “seeming emergency”, just spring-load the next one just like this.
What if you were wrong? How could you have known?
Quit thinking.
You made the right call. The issue was probably the recent maintenance, but you did not know that for sure.
If, at any point, you felt like *maybe* you should make the call - Then you should have made the call, and you absolutely did the right thing.I declared Pan, pan, pan earlier this year.
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So I’ve questioned myself if I really needed to make that call.