Buying my first airplane and have couple of concerns

[zerogravityaviation]

Hello Aviators,
I’m in the process of buying an aircraft and it’s in a different state in the east coast while I’m located in California.
The aircraft had a prop strike due to turning the engine while the tow bar still attached and that was back in 2008 then the engine went to major overhaul.
My two concerns are:
1- the guy told me about the prop strike incident after I purchased the tickets for myself and my instructor to go look at the airplane.
2- HOBBS meter still showing 1,9xx while TSMOH is 750 so they don’t match( do they usually reset the Hobbs after the major ? Or it stays the same? )

Log books look great and never a problem shown.

I really like that airplane but don’t want to go buy an airplane and put a bunch of money based on only my feeling of liking a bird! gotta be more realistic.

P.S I’m planning to do a panel restoration and upgrade all avionics and teach on it after getting my CFI/CFII. That’s why I don’t want to spend all that much and something major show in the future.

Any pointers and tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Tom J]

Hobbs and tach time typically don't get reset after engine work. You have to look at the time installed vs. current to get SMOH.

 

[murphey]

I had a prop strike on my cherokee in 2011 with the tow bar attached. Overhaul, no big deal other than I needed a new tow bar and prop. Took advantage of the overhaul to replace the oil cooler, all the hoses and scat tubing and the baffling.
I've learned the hard way - refundable airline tickets.
The Hobbs is for billing students. I disconnected it when I bought the cherokee back in 2000. Only the tach matters for aircraft issues. Use your watch to bill students.

 

[Bell206]

but don’t want to go buy an airplane and put a bunch of money based on only my feeling of liking a bird! gotta be more realistic.

The only person who can give you a realistic assessment of the aircraft will be the mechanic you will use to perform its 1st annual if you choose to buy it. I've always recommended one should select their mechanic first before buying an aircraft and especially their 1st aircraft. Since airworthiness is subjective to each person, even another mechanic, your mechanic will give you their opinion on what items will be important to them and what items may cost you a "bunch of money" in order to receive his signature of approval. Even if your mechanic can't travel to review the aircraft prior to purchase they can provide you with an insight to what you should look for or maybe even help you select a local mechanic to preform a prebuy. Good luck!

 

[dbahn]

On our PA12 on floats used for sightseeing and instruction we had a tach that only began recording above a certain RPM. There was ALWAYS a big difference between tach and Hobbs time, especially with all the taxiing time done at idle for positioning on water. It makes a huge difference for considerable expense savings in time mandated engine maintenance.

Unless you've signed a purchase and sales agreement that doesn't give you an option to bail out after a pre-buy, I don't see any reason to consider bailing out now. I'm currently selling my C206 and every potential buyer has arranged to review the log books before proceeding ith the sale. It's almost always money well spent if something turns out to be amiss. Logbooks are easy to scan and email without risk of losing them, so if the seller balks at doing that then you may have a bigger problem . . .

I presume your mechanic has seen the logbooks as well?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Hello Aviators,
I’m in the process of buying an aircraft and it’s in a different state in the east coast while I’m located in California.
The aircraft had a prop strike due to turning the engine while the tow bar still attached and that was back in 2008 then the engine went to major overhaul.
My two concerns are:
1- the guy told me about the prop strike incident after I purchased the tickets for myself and my instructor to go look at the airplane.
2- HOBBS meter still showing 1,9xx while TSMOH is 750 so they don’t match( do they usually reset the Hobbs after the major ? Or it stays the same? )

Log books look great and never a problem shown.

So, you didn't see the logbooks before you bought the tickets?

Personally, I wouldn't be bothered by a Hobbs vs Tach discrepancy. And a prop strike followed by an engine overhaul would not keep me from looking at the airplane and having a good prebuy performed.

 

[Gary Ward]

I got a new hobbs meter when I had a new panel put in. I use it to log my flying and know how many hours I have on my panel.
It has nothing to do with the engine. I use tach time to track my engine maintenance.

 

[ateamer]

Hello Aviators,
I’m in the process of buying an aircraft and it’s in a different state in the east coast while I’m located in California.
The aircraft had a prop strike due to turning the engine while the tow bar still attached and that was back in 2008 then the engine went to major overhaul.
My two concerns are:
1- the guy told me about the prop strike incident after I purchased the tickets for myself and my instructor to go look at the airplane.


Log books look great and never a problem shown.

Did you ask why they overhauled the engine?

If it was properly overhauled and the prop repaired properly or replaced (most likely), it isn’t much matter for concern, especially given that it happened 16 years ago and the plane presumably has flown plenty since then.

Lesson for anyone else, inquire as to why parts were replaced or overhauled. A lesson I learned the hard way and hopefully will not repeat, and can help someone else from doing the same.

 

[dbahn]

Did you ask why they overhauled the engine?

OP stated it was a prop strike.

That's usually a freebie that gives the owner an oportunity to replace "serviceable" parts with new parts at a favorable expense, considering that in most cases insurance is paying for removal, disassembly, inspection, reassembly and reinstallation, plus round trip packing and shipping.

 

[Domenick]

...1- the guy told me about the prop strike incident after I purchased the tickets for myself and my instructor to go look at the airplane. ...

Log books look great and never a problem shown....

If there was a prop strike and it's not listed in the logs, I wonder what else is not in the logs. Run.

 

[fabricgator]

Hello Aviators,
I’m in the process of buying an aircraft and it’s in a different state in the east coast while I’m located in California.
The aircraft had a prop strike due to turning the engine while the tow bar still attached and that was back in 2008 then the engine went to major overhaul.
My two concerns are:
1- the guy told me about the prop strike incident after I purchased the tickets for myself and my instructor to go look at the airplane.
2- HOBBS meter still showing 1,9xx while TSMOH is 750 so they don’t match( do they usually reset the Hobbs after the major ? Or it stays the same? )

Prop strikes like this happen far more often than they should. I was taught to NEVER be so lazy as to walk away more than three steps with the towbar still connected (unless it is also connected to an airtug)

I hope you have an A&P mechanic scheduled to do a pre-buy inspection. We can go as far as to take the airplane apart and do a 100 hr/annual inspection, logbook review and AD/SB research check.
AND a lot has to do with how the aircraft was stored, operated, and frequency of things like oil changes regardless of hours on oil.

I've seen far to many aircraft that for the last several years they just sit because life gets complicated and no time, no interest, (or no medical)

SO 750 hours since 2008 averages to about 50 hours a year (+/- 4 hrs month).... OK
NOW 50 hours a year was that consistent or flown hot and heavy for the first three years and recently the aircraft has been dormant?

An engine should (must) be FLOWN at least 1 hour every month and the oil changed every 6 months (even if it only has 6 hours from being flown once every month)

Starting an airplane and ground running it until it gets up to operating oil temperature on a regular basis MAY BE WORSE than just leaving it sit.
The oil doesn't get hot enough for long enough to bake all the moisture out of the engine and it may induce more corrosion because of the short run.

Ideally (and who really does it) if an aircraft engine is going to sit idle for more than three four months it should be pickled.
But again, realistically?

Where are you going to look at this?
What airframe?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I was lucky, when shopping I asked owner (at other side of country) “Is there anything else a buyer would want to know?”
He revealed a cracked case (IO520)
(even if in a non critical area, at that point I would reject)

Avionics forum??

 

[chemgeek]

If there was a prop strike and it's not listed in the logs, I wonder what else is not in the logs. Run.

Prop strikes are not always listed as prop strikes. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. Clues are entries like "propeller replaced, crankshaft flange runout checked" etc. A prop strike does not have to be a big deal as long as the post-strike maintenance was done properly. My AA-5 had one of those "cryptic" prop strikes that did no discernable damage and that engine made it to a normal overhaul time without any issues.

 

[WDD]

Domenick has a great point. There was a prop strike and you didn't know about it already? It's either not listed in the log books, so how accurate are the books? And/Or your mechanic looked at the books and missed it, so how well do you know this mechanic?

A prop strike followed by an IRAN or major overhaul is not a problem. But what else might be missed?

It could still be an OK buy, but IMHO take extra time on the history.

 

[Half Fast]

There was a prop strike and you didn't know about it already? It's either not listed in the log books, so how accurate are the books?

Here are the required contents for a log entry (14 CFR 43.9):

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.​

​

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.​

​

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.​

​

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.​

Note that there's no requirement at all to record WHY the work was performed. If the log contains a description of the engine teardown and reassembly, that's sufficient. There's no need to log that it was because of a prop strike.

 

[Salty]

Here are the required contents for a log entry (14 CFR 43.9):

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.​

​

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.​

​

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.​

​

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.​

Note that there's no requirement at all to record WHY the work was performed. If the log contains a description of the engine teardown and reassembly, that's sufficient. There's no need to log that it was because of a prop strike.

Yep. Why is simply not part of the log entry. Just what was done and how it was done.

 

[Pinecone]

Hobbs and Tach can be reset or not or even set to a random number of hours. You do need to track tach hours (or similar) for maintenance purposes.

BTW, an "overhaul" does not set the engine hours to 0. It sets "Since Major Overhaul" to 0. Only a factory rebuild/reman sets and engine back to be 0 hours. But even then, the tach may not be reset (most do not), so it reads total time. '

At least under the tach needs to be replaced and you don't want to wait and pay extra for the new tach to be set to the old hours.

My CAP-10 is on the 3rd tach. All new ones were installed with 00.0 hours.

If the proper inspections were done, a prop strike is not a deal breaker. And since the engine was overhauled, not a concern