Watching the Blue Angels is Unhealthy

Yeah but the shows just aren’t there for the public’s entertainment. Showing what are tax dollars go for is just part of the demo team’s mission.

They’re really there to inspire youth to join the military. Recruiting is at historical lows right now so air shows are more valuable than ever in recruiting the next generation.
For a lot of folks, going to an air show is their first experience with the military and in particular, military aviation. I can honestly say there’s a good chance I never would have joined without the experience of attending air shows. It’s one thing to see aircraft in a recruiting commercial, it’s entirely different to see it in person.
Even as a kid, you want to inspire me to join the military, show me the capabilities of the C130, or other airplanes I might actually get to fly.

In typing that, I'm realizing how literally true it was in my life. I considered the military, but as a kid I really only knew about the fighters and once I learned how unlikely it was I would be flying one I gave up and stayed civilian. I didn't have any idea about the many, many other flying jobs in the military until much later in life.
 
Having the Navy and Air Force very publicly demonstrate such a disciplined and precise routine sends a message
Those routines haven't changed in at least 15 years. What message does that send?

I understand how complex they are and the long and difficult training required to master them. But I still say there's time for a change, time to freshen up those display routines.
 
Well sure, the things you mention are important considerations for ADULTS considering a life in the military. But the shows are to start a spark in a young person who isn’t thinking about money or QoL. The shows are designed to “inspire.” That word is mentioned on both demo teams websites.

It’s like the movie Top Gun. It was a huge boost to not just Navy recruiting but all the services. It had nothing to do with selling young folks on the mundane aspects about life in the military. It was about selling them on a future with adventure. Maybe an unrealistic future but it worked none the less. There are a lot of former fighter pilots who say they joined because of that movie. Just like I’ve seen a lot of former Blue Angel pilots who say they pursued Naval Aviation just by being exposed to the Blues as a child. Maybe not as great of influence as past generations, but military air show attendance numbers today are still strong so the interest is out there.

Spot on. Target audience is 17 year old kids. Message is come do cool stuff with us. Secondary audience is parents. Message is look how professional we are, you can trust us with your kid.
Also remember it's a zero sum game between the services. There are a finite number of kids receptive to the military, so part of the game is competing between services. The demo teams are a chance for each service to create a brand.
 
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exactly how loud are the horns on the ferry boats in Seattle? how much exhaust do those old diesel engine produce. time to say goodby to the ferry boats in Seattle also!
 
exactly how loud are the horns on the ferry boats in Seattle? how much exhaust do those old diesel engine produce. time to say goodby to the ferry boats in Seattle also!
I will say, when we were at OSH, the F-22 was doing its demo flight and it was LOUD. We were back a good ways - definitely on pavement - and I was curious and opened the NIOSH sound app. 105db for one of the passes. That’s definitely loud. Not sure what the Blue Angels do but they do make some noise. Granted, it’s transient (as is a ferry horn) but it’s up there db-wise
 
I will say, when we were at OSH, the F-22 was doing its demo flight and it was LOUD. We were back a good ways - definitely on pavement - and I was curious and opened the NIOSH sound app. 105db for one of the passes. That’s definitely loud. Not sure what the Blue Angels do but they do make some noise. Granted, it’s transient (as is a ferry horn) but it’s up there db-wise

Was that 105 on an A-weighted scale (dBA) or C-weighted (dBC)? An A weighting rolls off the lower frequencies and is mostly used for safety measurements, C is a relatively flat frequency response. Much of that 105dB you measured may have been at lower frequencies if you were on a C scale, and an A scale might have given a significantly lower reading.

There's disagreement on what exposure durations are safe. For 105dBA, OSHA says an hour is okay but NIOSH puts it around 4 minutes.

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Was that 105 on an A-weighted scale (dBA) or C-weighted (dBC)? An A weighting rolls off the lower frequencies and is mostly used for safety measurements, C is a relatively flat frequency response. Much of that 105dB you measured may have been at lower frequencies if you were on a C scale, and an A scale might have given a significantly lower reading.

There's disagreement on what exposure durations are safe. For 105dBA, OSHA says an hour is okay but NIOSH puts it around 4 minutes.

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Interesting - thanks.

It’s dbA. The jet was loud and I’d say it would have been uncomfortable far sooner than 7 minutes, regardless of whether or not it was “safe”.

The NIOSH app is entertaining

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Maybe. I see the demo teams as quite valuable for public relations, keeping up overall public support for the military and raising awareness. I'm not sure they're very effective recruiting tools, though. Things like pay, quality of life, advancement opportunities, training, etc., probably have more to do with recruiting and retention than seeing fighters in a diamond formation.
I would also add that leadership (or lack thereof) has a big influence.

IBTL
 
Won't replace the horn, but WSDOT has committed to yet another ferry construction boondoggle.
Sounds like it’s economically sensible in the long run. They’re hybrids which optimize the diesel’s fuel consumption by operating them in an optimal range plus shore power boosts their efficiency. Not an authority but from Reddit:
IMG_6569.png

But for those who focus on the positive environmental impact as a negative, maybe they could include “rolling coal” stacks for the diesels

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Good Grief! Our country is turning upside down. Whoever wrote that needs to get a grip on reality and get a life!
Given the placement of your post I assume you’re talking about electrocution vs. shark attack
 
It's ignorance such as this that really clouds the issue. It will be Orcas not sharks eating you up there, well, after you're electrocuted. :D
So the boat kills and cooks the passengers for the orcas? Are we certain the orcas aren't behind this?
 
nope... it's the save the whales movement...
 
Just can’t trust a killer whale, they’re scoundrels
 
Sure, and I maintain that this is an unintended benefit if it's not an actual part of their mission statement. And perhaps very intentional that they don't demo current tactics or weaponry.

However i think that a powerful message still exists in saying "look at our badass pilots who can fly six inches away from each other at 400mph while in a roll. We have such an excess of skill, material, and budget that we can afford to have this entire team of pilots and support crew removed from normal duty to travel from city to city for most of the calendar year, just for fun."
I agree with this. I was able to see the Singapore Airshow earlier this year, the aerial portion of it. This was the first airshow I have seen outside of the USA. The Singapore Airforce had a nice F-15/ Apache demonstration team. Most of the flying teams were rather tame. The Indian Air Force Sarang helicopter team was a good example of formation flying. The Australian Air Force was flying Pilatus PC-9A's- a training plane. The South Koreans had a good show-
JAK_8482 by Jack Silver, on Flickr
JAK_8462 by Jack Silver, on Flickr

They just need to covert to training aircraft. Go to T-45s or better yet, T-6s. We’ll save tax $ and the reduction in noise, Co2, and PM2.5 will add years to our lives. I bet the T-6 can do a mean sneak up pass!
The South Korean T-50 is a sporty trainer. It seems similar to an A-4 in performance. From what I saw, I'd think twice before messing with the SKAF. Their performance was the best of what I saw there.
JAK_8685 by Jack Silver, on Flickr
JAK_8671 by Jack Silver, on Flickr
JAK_8595 by Jack Silver, on Flickr
 
Just can’t trust a killer whale, they’re scoundrels
Though a bit misnamed, unless you are a seal.

It's fascinating that there has never been a documented Orca attack on a human in the wild. Hopefully they never figure out we are tasty and slow.
 
Though a bit misnamed, unless you are a seal.

It's fascinating that there has never been a documented Orca attack on a human in the wild. Hopefully they never figure out we are tasty and slow.
Your statements are correct, but you may be interested that there seem to be two types of orcas. One eats fish, and the Bigg's orcas eat seals and other marine mammals.
 
Why should they go after humans in the wild when humans are so much easier to catch while confined in a Sea World tank?

perhaps they are aware that they themselves are also very confined
 
Even as a kid, you want to inspire me to join the military, show me the capabilities of the C130, or other airplanes I might actually get to fly.

In typing that, I'm realizing how literally true it was in my life. I considered the military, but as a kid I really only knew about the fighters and once I learned how unlikely it was I would be flying one I gave up and stayed civilian. I didn't have any idea about the many, many other flying jobs in the military until much later in life.

The aviation services have done a relatively visible job of relegating frontline fighters (legitimate extreme population outliers within the DoD specialty code universe) to the background over support/non-flying jobs, in their more recent (last 10 years) history of TV and now social media advertising. At least that's been my experience over 18 years. They've made significant inroads to showcase the air force as an all-inclusive pedestrian jobs program, which in fairness, the in-garrison DoD writ large is.

To your personal anecdote, mine ended up being the opposite. If my only exposure as a kid had been strat airlift, I would have stayed civilian.

I still contend the usaf does/did it correctly by showcasing the fighters. See, even though I ended up not getting what drew me into military service in the first place, the service still got their pound of flesh out of me. Which is the point of advertising. I don't know how old you are (this board skews boomer old), but in my experience the post-911 modern collective is not ignorant of the existence and availability of non-fighter aircraft in the military. Airshow statics are riddled with them, all the time. I'd know, I've been part of those statics. We even have heavy aircraft demo teams.

Lastly, at least on the usaf side, good bad or indifferent we have decades of market research that says bait and switching 3/4ths of the applicants with dreams of fighters they mathematically can't all attain, is a higher percentage play to fill graduating classes, than casting nets based on mobility aircraft advertisment as the primary.

At the end of the day, we don't have a shortage of people wanting to become pilots. That niche is covered. It's the 95% of other jobs not directly represented by an F-22 doing thrust vectored cobras at the end of the runway, what the usaf ultimately has problems dealing with. As such, the media campaign needs to appeal to those jobs, and I think they're doing that.
 
Why should they go after humans in the wild when humans are so much easier to catch while confined in a Sea World tank?
Talk about the juice not being worth the squeeze.

We even have heavy aircraft demo teams.
I’ve seen one and it seemed effective. I was 36 at the time so maturity may be a factor. But if teenage me had seen the C-17 demonstration that I saw as an adult and someone told me that I could have a chance to fly one, I would have jumped at the opportunity. As it was, teenage me was told consistently that I would never get into a military pilot seat without perfect vision, so I set my sights elsewhere.
 
if teenage me had seen the C-17 demonstration that I saw as an adult and someone told me that I could have a chance to fly one, I would have jumped at the opportunity. As it was, teenage me was told consistently that I would never get into a military pilot seat without perfect vision, so I set my sights elsewhere.
Same. I wanted to be an airline pilot when I has 5, and I was told by a struggling regional FO at the time (he's a 757 captain now) not to bother. Had I been taken to an airshow and seen even a C-130 I might've still pursued that path. I was vaguely aware of the AF, but was told you had to be a certain size with perfect eyesight to be a pilot.
 
Talk about the juice not being worth the squeeze.

Probably true, considering the Orca didn’t bother to eat the three trainers he killed.

While orca attacks on humans in the wild are rare, and no fatal attacks have been recorded,[13] as of 2024 four humans have died due to interactions with captive orcas.[5][14][15][16] Tilikum was involved in three of those deaths.
 
Probably true, considering the Orca didn’t bother to eat the three trainers he killed.
“I was kept in captivity my whole life to perform stupid tricks for tourists, and all I got was this stupid T-shirt.”
 
“I was kept in captivity my whole life to perform stupid tricks for tourists, and all I got was this stupid T-shirt.”

My preference would have been to feed tourists to the orcas.

And why do they call it “tourist season” if we’re not supposed to shoot them?
 
First time I saw the Thunderbirds was at Bunker Hill AFB in the mid sixties and they were flying F-100 Super Sabres. There were also some B-58 Hustler fly-by's. Not sure how healthy it was but if it's gonna kill me it sure is taking it's sweet time.
 
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