Don’t fault the newspaper. It’s simply a symptom of a much larger disease.
In what other American city would you find a large bronze statue of Lenin?
Watching the Blue Angels is Unhealthy
- Thread starter Velocity173
- Start date
In what other American city would you find a large bronze statue of Lenin?
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Jereme Carne
Pre-Flight
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2021
- Messages
- 57
- Display Name
Display name:
JCarne
I'm only here fore the comments. Some dang good ones so far. 
Ed Haywood
En-Route
You seem to be spending a lot of energy thinking about other people's bunched undies.
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
Both teams fly planes that are currently in production. They fly older jets from the series, but can swap them out for newer ones when needed.
There seem to be a fair number of people thinking about the Seattle Times' bunched undies as well.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,163
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
Actually, in this day and age, it's hard not to be thinking about all the selective outrage being intentionally stirred up by many, many people on many, many issues, to drive others' beliefs. Trying to point it out predictably gets one flamed - a key part of the process.
Had there been no name-calling, I probably would have ignored the subtle agenda-pushing. OK - not-so-subtle.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,163
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
I had to go look that one up. Sounds like it’s a piece of private property on someone’s private property. While I don’t agree with apparently showing support for someone as nasty as Lenin, I’d say it’s a testament to the First Amendment, which permits free speech even when I don’t like what’s said. It’s like flying a Confederate flag on your own private property.
That statue reflects the individual, not the city.
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,549
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
The comments on the Article in the Times website are far more diverse than POA. Obviously the majority of this group supports the Blues. People in Seattle seemed to be split 50/50.I'm only here fore the comments. Some dang good ones so far.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,215
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD
If by "worse" you mean an awesome display of power then I agree.
Bumper sticker seen in Oak Harbor: "See the jets? Hear the noise? Get used to it!"
Nauga,
and the low altitude Deception Pass
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
In 1995, I camped for a few nights near Deception Pass while on a motorcycle ride. Turns out the A-6s were doing night patterns that week.If by "worse" you mean an awesome display of power then I agree.
Bumper sticker seen in Oak Harbor: "See the jets? Hear the noise? Get used to it!"
Nauga,
and the low altitude Deception Pass
As mentioned at that link, zany sculptures are a feature of the Fremont District of Seattle.I had to go look that one up. Sounds like it’s a piece of private property on someone’s private property. While I don’t agree with apparently showing support for someone as nasty as Lenin, I’d say it’s a testament to the First Amendment, which permits free speech even when I don’t like what’s said. It’s like flying a Confederate flag on your own private property.
That statue reflects the individual, not the city.
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
You are free to not visit my hometown if you wish.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,163
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
…and Florida Man is a feature of Florida…FIFY.
Aviatorbrew
Pre-takeoff checklist
They flew into Cheyenne today, fuel stop I would assume, they sure took my breath away when they departed
Baked Potato
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2022
- Messages
- 1,069
- Display Name
Display name:
Baked Potato
Oh, I guess you're right. I was thinking in an air show context - I've been to Annapolis many times but have never seen them perform during those ceremonies.
If watching the Blues is unhealthy, maybe they could switch to the Tbirds.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,549
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
They just need to covert to training aircraft. Go to T-45s or better yet, T-6s. We’ll save tax $ and the reduction in noise, Co2, and PM2.5 will add years to our lives. I bet the T-6 can do a mean sneak up pass!
Loved the troll under the bridge in Fremont. Used to go by it all the time on the way to the Red Door tavern or the trolleyman pub. Seattle was a great place back then. Now? No.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 2,091
- Display Name
Display name:
Domenick
First, it's NOT like flying a Confederate flag in Seattle. If you fly a Confederate flag in Seattle, at the least, you will have demonstrators and haters targeting you. It would most definitely be torn down. Your house may be attacked. The police will not be allowed to protect you.I had to go look that one up. Sounds like it’s a piece of private property on someone’s private property. While I don’t agree with apparently showing support for someone as nasty as Lenin, I’d say it’s a testament to the First Amendment, which permits free speech even when I don’t like what’s said. It’s like flying a Confederate flag on your own private property.
That statue reflects the individual, not the city.
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia
Second, the statue of Lenin DOES reflect the city. I live here, I know just how far, far left it is.
Third, on the rare occasion when I venture into Fremont, I roll down my window, give a short horn beep, stick my arm out as far as possible, and give Lenin a stiff public flip-off.
I have no use for the modern jet teams either. I don't understand the appeal of the noise nor the setbacks that diminish viewing points for all the other acts in the show as well. For me they could all be cancelled, never return and I'd enjoy the airshows much more.Apparently I’ve been exposing my self to a health / environmental hazard for years without knowing it.
Let's honor the past but bid farewell to the Blue Angels | Op-Ed
Let’s honor the past and define the future. Thank the Blue Angels for their service and past shows, say goodbye and move on to healthier fun.www.seattletimes.com
That said, I don't write opeds and complain. I just put in earplugs, take a nap and get rested to go to SOS later.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 9,752
- Location
- Broken Arrow, OK
- Display Name
Display name:
SoonerAviator
Leslie Nielsen was classic in that movie.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
I have no use for the modern jet teams either. I don't understand the appeal of the noise nor the setbacks that diminish viewing points for all the other acts in the show as well. For me they could all be cancelled, never return and I'd enjoy the airshows much more.
That said, I don't write opeds and complain. I just put in earplugs, take a nap and get rested to go to SOS later.
I don't agree with your opinion, but I really like your way of handling it.
Shepherd
Final Approach
I'm old.
When I was a kid, formation flights of F-84s then F-86s flew out of Stewart Air Force Base, weekly, up and down the Hudson Valley and all over upstate.
They would fly intercept missions against B-50s, then the B-47s and eventually the B-52s from the bomber bases around the country as they simulated attacks on NYC.
Every Memorial Day, July 4th, and Veterans Day they would fly out in massed formations, "showing the flag" as they used to call it.
When we heard them coming houses would empty out and people would cheer as they flew past.
We had a bunch of WWII Army Air Corps, guys on my street, a P-38 pilot with 45 missions next door to me, 2 B-17 guys who had 93 missions between them and a guy who flew the Hump for 4 years are the neighbors I remember. And my Dad, who built airfields and fuel storage facilities for Chennault, before we even got into the war, and then with the Army Corp of Engineers until January of '46. And Mr. McCarthy. He flew Spads in France in WWI. Navy, Army, Marines and Coast Guard, they would all meet at the corner, each holding a glass. Someone would bring a bottle of scotch, pour out a libation to each and they would toast the planes when they flew past. Kids would cheer and wave flags, people would clap and wave.
When the sound finally vanished, they would shake hands and drift off to whatever events were planed for the day.
When we stopped "showing the flag" to mollify the critics something important was lost in this country.
In my humble opinion, we are much worse off for it.
When I was a kid, formation flights of F-84s then F-86s flew out of Stewart Air Force Base, weekly, up and down the Hudson Valley and all over upstate.
They would fly intercept missions against B-50s, then the B-47s and eventually the B-52s from the bomber bases around the country as they simulated attacks on NYC.
Every Memorial Day, July 4th, and Veterans Day they would fly out in massed formations, "showing the flag" as they used to call it.
When we heard them coming houses would empty out and people would cheer as they flew past.
We had a bunch of WWII Army Air Corps, guys on my street, a P-38 pilot with 45 missions next door to me, 2 B-17 guys who had 93 missions between them and a guy who flew the Hump for 4 years are the neighbors I remember. And my Dad, who built airfields and fuel storage facilities for Chennault, before we even got into the war, and then with the Army Corp of Engineers until January of '46. And Mr. McCarthy. He flew Spads in France in WWI. Navy, Army, Marines and Coast Guard, they would all meet at the corner, each holding a glass. Someone would bring a bottle of scotch, pour out a libation to each and they would toast the planes when they flew past. Kids would cheer and wave flags, people would clap and wave.
When the sound finally vanished, they would shake hands and drift off to whatever events were planed for the day.
When we stopped "showing the flag" to mollify the critics something important was lost in this country.
In my humble opinion, we are much worse off for it.
Well Said (From another Old Guy, born the Day after Pearl Harbor)
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,163
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
Again, I don’t agree with the opinion writer. We’ve been to OSH every year for 16 years and always enjoy the flying. I served 24 years in the Air Force, including as an F-16 Flight Surgeon.
THE FIRST REPLY in this thread was a simple 3-word one: “What a jackass”. No reasoned disagreement, just name-calling. That’s the part I take exception to.
THE FIRST REPLY in this thread was a simple 3-word one: “What a jackass”. No reasoned disagreement, just name-calling. That’s the part I take exception to.
FIFY
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,163
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
And you have every right to do so in this Land of the Free. Just as the author, who spent 30 years defending your/his/our right to do so, does. And, yes, people have the right to insult him for exercising his rights.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
When I was a cadet at West Point in the mid 80's, we were sometimes loaned out as props for 4th of July parades. I marched in a parade in a small town in PA in 1987. One of the best times I have ever had in my life. Afterwards, we went to the local VFW for beers. Everyone there was a WWII vet, plus their kids and grandkids. What struck me was the pure joy of those vets, seeing the sacrifice of their generation pay off for their town and their descendants.
I don't necessarily think we have lost anything though. There was no shortage of anti-American sentiment in the 60's and 70's; if anything, it was more widespread than now, where it is largely confined to a few far-left loonie bins like Portlandia. Culture has changed, and with it the expression of national pride, but it's still there if you look. Kids nowadays live online and relate through social media and gaming. If you look at what they are watching and playing, it's all Delta Force and Navy SEAL stuff. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a bro wearing a 9 Line/Wounded Warrior t-shirt or sipping Black Rifle Coffee. I stopped asking dudes in Grunt Style shirts if they had been Infantry when I realized the symbols had moved into the common domain. But the underlying expression of loyalty and belonging is same as it ever was. In some ways it's better. Shiny planes and flags are cool, but a deeper level of patriotism requires the understanding that freedom has to be won and defended in the mud and muck.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,549
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
Yeah but the shows just aren’t there for the public’s entertainment. Showing what are tax dollars go for is just part of the demo team’s mission.I have no use for the modern jet teams either. I don't understand the appeal of the noise nor the setbacks that diminish viewing points for all the other acts in the show as well. For me they could all be cancelled, never return and I'd enjoy the airshows much more.
That said, I don't write opeds and complain. I just put in earplugs, take a nap and get rested to go to SOS later.
They’re really there to inspire youth to join the military. Recruiting is at historical lows right now so air shows are more valuable than ever in recruiting the next generation.
For a lot of folks, going to an air show is their first experience with the military and in particular, military aviation. I can honestly say there’s a good chance I never would have joined without the experience of attending air shows. It’s one thing to see aircraft in a recruiting commercial, it’s entirely different to see it in person.
Retention is also low. Somehow I don't think a lack of airshows is the reason in either case.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,549
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
No, but doing away with military air demo teams wouldn’t help matters either. Recruiting has roughly a $4 billion dollar budget. The demo teams make up a fraction of that so in my opinion, it’s money well spent.
Maybe. I see the demo teams as quite valuable for public relations, keeping up overall public support for the military and raising awareness. I'm not sure they're very effective recruiting tools, though. Things like pay, quality of life, advancement opportunities, training, etc., probably have more to do with recruiting and retention than seeing fighters in a diamond formation.
Baked Potato
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2022
- Messages
- 1,069
- Display Name
Display name:
Baked Potato
I also think there's another intangible benefit to having these demo teams perform, intentional or not.
Having the Navy and Air Force very publicly demonstrate such a disciplined and precise routine sends a message to current and potential adversaries. It is one convenient package that shows our technology, coordination, resources, and the skill set possessed by our airmen and support crew. If we can maintain such an incredible display, consistently, many times per year with a revolving set of pilots and crew, it really says a lot about our military capability. At least I think it does.
It's a nice thought, but I'm skeptical of it. The demos do not involve actual tactics, convey nothing about precision weapon delivery, are flown with outdated equipment, etc., etc. I don't think the demos really say much about real military capability. Nor should they; the less an adversary knows about our true capabilities the better.
As I said, I think the demos should continue, but I see the value to be primarily in public relations.
Baked Potato
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2022
- Messages
- 1,069
- Display Name
Display name:
Baked Potato
Sure, and I maintain that this is an unintended benefit if it's not an actual part of their mission statement. And perhaps very intentional that they don't demo current tactics or weaponry.
However i think that a powerful message still exists in saying "look at our badass pilots who can fly six inches away from each other at 400mph while in a roll. We have such an excess of skill, material, and budget that we can afford to have this entire team of pilots and support crew removed from normal duty to travel from city to city for most of the calendar year, just for fun."
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,549
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
Well sure, the things you mention are important considerations for ADULTS considering a life in the military. But the shows are to start a spark in a young person who isn’t thinking about money or QoL. The shows are designed to “inspire.” That word is mentioned on both demo teams websites.
It’s like the movie Top Gun. It was a huge boost to not just Navy recruiting but all the services. It had nothing to do with selling young folks on the mundane aspects about life in the military. It was about selling them on a future with adventure. Maybe an unrealistic future but it worked none the less. There are a lot of former fighter pilots who say they joined because of that movie. Just like I’ve seen a lot of former Blue Angel pilots who say they pursued Naval Aviation just by being exposed to the Blues as a child. Maybe not as great of influence as past generations, but military air show attendance numbers today are still strong so the interest is out there.