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Rene

Rene

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Rene
What are the thoughts of those who've "been there and done that". I have an opportunity to "tag along" and "manipulate the controls" from the backseat of a low-powered, small, hand-propped, two-seat tandem taildragger. I have 0 logged hours and this won't count toward any certification (which I haven't started yet anyway). The very experienced pilot making the offer is of the opinion that I should get several hours with my butt 18 to 24 inches aft of CG and unable to see much of the windscreen or any of the panel through him under my belt before I start any official training. Because I will be forced to rely on my innate senses rather than any gauges.
 
Once the thing is in the air, it flies the same as any other low powered aircraft. You should be able to see over (or around) the guy in front. Actually, learning how to taxi that thing will bode well for you as you move on to more forgiving training wheel aircraft.

My wife's flight instructor was always a fan of "ride along, you'll learn something."
 
Gotta say - when I was young, I rarely (and by "rarely," I mean "never") missed the opportunity to fly in a plane of any kind.
 
Why not? Experience of every type is valuable. In no way will this impede your future training, although I’d just as soon put his butt in the back & you enjoy the view. The truth is, he just needs a sandbag in the backseat (you) so he can be upfront for awhile. That’s the problem, in my view, with the cub. I never liked piloting from the backseat. Thanks the reason I prefer the Aeronca champ. It puts the Pilot where God intended, up front.

You’ll get to experience the Hemingway start (A Farewell to Arms), the warm breezes & smells, & the putt-putt of the sweetest little motor. Just sniff the old salt’s breath in case he take the barnstorming ethos too far.

Enjoy!
 
There is some truth to the fact that you feel the coordination, or lack thereof, much more when further from the cg. At 0 hours, it probably won't help you all that much, but it'd be good experience all the same.

Generally speaking, the correct answer when someone asks you to go flying is "yes". The said, trust your gut. If the person seems trustworthy, capable, and experienced, and the airplane looks well cared for, go for it. Those things can be hard to determine without any experience, though.
 
I have a daughter so I’m probably overly suspicious…do you have or know anyone with aviation experience who can make an evaluation for you? Who did the annual? When? Etc

Also, underpowered and allowing you to manipulate the controls seems unwise. Is he a cfi?

Have you ever been in a small plane?

Good luck
 
Yes. Go!

But….

I can’t even remember how many times my buds, after the fact, have commented “you actually flew with/in them/that?”

I may not be a good person to ask.
 
Randomskylane said:
I have a daughter so I’m probably overly suspicious…do you have or know anyone with aviation experience who can make an evaluation for you? Who did the annual? When? Etc

Also, underpowered and allowing you to manipulate the controls seems unwise. Is he a cfi?

Have you ever been in a small plane?

Good luck
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Low power is not the same as underpowered. It's very similar to the airplanes used as trainers here. 700-800 pounds of fabric covered steel tubes aluminum ribs and spruce spars with wheels, a dozen gallons of gas, and a 60 to 80 hp engine.

I've been up a few times since I started this job.

And it's a tandem so Mom will be . . . well . . . less unhappy. Or she will be after I tell her . . . which will be after I get back . . .. :cool:
 
Tools said:
Yes. Go!

But….

I can’t even remember how many times my buds, after the fact, have commented “you actually flew with/in them/that?”

I may not be a good person to ask.
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Go for it. But do not learn or attempt hand propping unless you are 100% focused, 100% confident, and treat every attempt as a unique event. Expect it to fire on each pull, 'hot' or not, and no matter what it has done before. Accidents are rare in part because hand propping is rare. Complacency will hurt you. Soapbox down.
 
I was lent a copy of 140DA-1 (L-4A, L-4B) so that I could read it and be more familiar with the aircraft systems.

First off, pages 20 to 26 inclusive are hilarious (an American English to British English terminology translator).

Second, I infer that a 72" wood prop with a 42" pitch is optimized for the plane's lightning fast 75 mph cruise and not climbing. Explaining why we can only develop ~150 rpm and ~8 hp less than the theoretical maximum, and we could get closer to 2300 rpm and 65 hp with a lower pitched propeller that would have a smaller aerodynamic load on it.

Third, I infer that in the 81 years since the airplane was built a lot of things, instruments, polyester vs. cotton, paint vs. dope, fire extinguishers, have gotten quite a bit lighter. So, even if it has a 3 pound ELT that didn't even exist back then, its EW which is lower than (the -1's) 693 pounds is legit.
 
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YOLO. You're going to have to start breaking in your parental unit(s) at some point anyway.
 
Rene said:
Second, I infer that a 72" wood prop with a 42" pitch is optimized for the plane's lightning fast 75 mph cruise and not climbing. Explaining why we can only develop ~150 rpm and ~8 hp less than the theoretical maximum, and we could get closer to 2300 rpm and 65 hp with a lower pitched propeller that would have a smaller aerodynamic load on it
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Your insight is curious.
 
My first flying lesson was while my mom and sister were on a college trip. Of course that was a different time, and no one at the airport was worried about parental permission.

I say send it.
 
Rene said:
What are the thoughts of those who've "been there and done that". I have an opportunity to "tag along" and "manipulate the controls" from the backseat of a low-powered, small, hand-propped, two-seat tandem taildragger. I have 0 logged hours and this won't count toward any certification (which I haven't started yet anyway). The very experienced pilot making the offer is of the opinion that I should get several hours with my butt 18 to 24 inches aft of CG and unable to see much of the windscreen or any of the panel through him under my belt before I start any official training. Because I will be forced to rely on my innate senses rather than any gauges.
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He's not wrong. If you pay attention and learn what he's teaching you, this is a good way to start. Back in my 5C1 days I tried to get every student to start in the Cub.
 
Any fixed pitch propeller is a compromise between climb and cruise. The difference between a climb prop and a cruise prop is usually rather small, after all, you still have to climb with a cruise prop and cruise with a climb prop. A cruise prop might reach redline rpm at full throttle in level flight, whereas a climb prop might overspeed the engine if you don't throttle back.

Some of the bush plane guys run large flat pitch "Borer" props for extreme climb performance... but they often fly to an event with a normal cruise prop and swap props when they arrive.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Fly every chance you get. You can learn a lot, even from pilots who aren't that good at flying.
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Thanks.

We flew yesterday morning and this morning, mid 70s, light breezes, and no clouds to speak of. On each flight I enjoyed half an hour of straight-and-level flight, normal climbs and descents, leveling the aeroplane after each, and medium bank turns in both directions.
 
Rene said:
I am very curious. But I also like to double and triple check. Please tell me when I make an error.
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I think what he means is, your knowledge of the plane and flying in general is advanced for a 17 yr old not even student pilot. Like almost too advanced to be believable.

Especially when you consider your previous thread on this same topic you already alluded to you "manipulating the controls" while this thread as of first post seems to insinuate you had yet to take a flight.
 
You guys over think stuff, just my view. The only person's integrity that I complete trust is my brother's. And that took about 40 years. Everybody else is probably OK, but maybe VC, and I was in grade school when that war ended.
 
This is a curious post, especially the link:

www.pilotsofamerica.com

So, student pilots.. Who are we and where do we stand?

be I guess I am a student again. ATP CPT starting in 2 weeks. This was just going to be a hobby. it will be a different way of flying if you opt for airlines. Very regimented and standardized procedures with crew (CRM) resources management, with you may not be used to… but will get familiar...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com

How’s your Aunt Whitney doing?
 
Racerx said:
I think what he means is, your knowledge of the plane and flying in general is advanced for a 17 yr old not even student pilot. Like almost too advanced to be believable.

Especially when you consider your previous thread on this same topic you already alluded to you "manipulating the controls" while this thread as of first post seems to insinuate you had yet to take a flight.
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I live on a street a block or so from the state road that runs along a section line. Nice and straight for several miles.

Every day, when the weather is nice, a yellow and orange Champ flies back and forth over that road. And I would watch it come and go.

I found out who it belonged to, and that it was training flights that I was watching from the ground. It intrigued me. When I obtained my driver's license, I started going over to the airfield it was based at and found that it had a twin . . . sisters . . . and cousins. I was already proficient at Google. Now I work at that airfield on the flight line.

So, yeah, I have manipulated the controls of the Bellanca . . . from the hangar to the flight line and back . . . 5 minutes of dual and . . . well, a lot more solo (I haven't logged it). But, I was able to manipulate the controls of the Piper while it was in the air. That was just so much better.
 
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Rene said:
So, yeah, I have manipulated the controls of the Bellanca . . . from the hangar to the flight line and back . . . 5 minutes of dual and . . . well, a lot more solo (I haven't logged it). But, I was able to manipulate the controls of the Piper while it was in the air. That was just so much better.
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Uh......huh......first time you've mentioned a piper product after your encyclopedia like knowledge of the Bellanca.
 
Racerx said:
Uh......huh......first time you've mentioned a piper product after your encyclopedia like knowledge of the Bellanca.
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The Bellanca belongs to my employer, and I care for it, so I probably know more about it than any of the other airplanes on this field.

I did mention "L-4", "A-691 IV", and being lent a copy of "140DA-1" by the owner of the airplane that I was offered stick time in. More than one respondent to my comments understood that to mean a "Army L-4 (previously O-59) is the same as Model J3C-65." (the first 10 words of A-691 IV)
 
Pinecone said:
You can even learn more from them. Even if what you learn is to NOT do things that way. :D
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One person I once flew with, I already knew not to do things that way so that was not something I learned. However, what I did learn is that I never want to fly with that person ever again.
 
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