Twin Ownership - Year 1 The ups and downs

Lance F

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Lance F
In mid October 2016 a 50/50 partner and I closed on a 1974 Cessna 414. For the previous 12 years this same partner and I had shared ownership of a 1984 Mooney M20J. (That partner bought out my share of the Mooney, and I still have total access to it.)
After 12 years flying arguably the most efficient cross country plane out there, one could ask why in the world would I go to an older plane burning 3X the fuel? Well, first I wanted a twin; second I now have two granddaughters and a wanted a plane I could take them and their parents with Sue and me to interesting places; third I wanted to make some longer trips and pressurization and A/C would simply make those trips more pleasant; and fourth I wanted a twin.
The requirement for pressurization and A/C pretty much meant a cabin class plane. Initially I considered P-Barons and C340As. The 414 has a bigger cabin than both those at only a nominal loss of airspeed. Plus the tail height of the 340 was too much for our hangar door open clearance.
The plane ultimately selected has very good paint and interior and a super panel. A reasonably good prebuy/annual caught a number of things, but overall the plane was well cared for. The engines were both at 1200 hours on 1600 TBO.
I went to Recurrent Training Center in Illinois to meet insurance requirements for initial training and picked up the plane in Crestview, FL. I only had about 72 hours of piston twin time (and 450 hours jet time which almost doesn't count). Its 670HP and a bunch of systems are a big step from a 200HP 4 place Mooney. But I really enjoyed flying it, learning to fly the G600 glass and using the GWX68 on board radar. We made a few small trips including one to Eleuthra, Bahamas right away.
Then the left engine ate a couple of $tarter adapter$ and showed some metal in the oil filter. Oil pressure was well in the green but had been decreasing. My partner and I decided immediately the right thing to do was overhaul the engine. This ended taking almost 6 months and cost a bunch, but now we have a great engine. No question it was the right thing to do.
In the meantime I ended up with a contract pilot gig for a beautiful C414A, so kept totally current in type while waiting for this engine work.
Finally after this I was able to do a trip to Virginia with the granddaughters to a family wedding. And Sue and I took it to the grass at Gastons. Both fun trips.
We took it to a highly regarded twin Cessna shop in the Atlanta area for annual and that is just wrapping up. A new AD on the gas heater caught us, and two pieces of the exhaust on the non-overhauled right engine had to be replaced. And there was a lot of little stuff that adds up too. A lot more than the owner assisted Mooney annuals I was used to.
Sue and I are going to St. Augustine for New Years with friends for the next trip, and I'm sure 2018 will bring many more.
In spite of the time and money lost by the engine overhaul, I'm glad I have this plane. Between my plane and the contract flying I have 166 hours in type now. With this amount time in just a little over a year I feel fairly comfortable understanding all its systems and flying it in most any weather. This move does not make sense on a spread sheet, but I ain't getting any younger. There is a great Twin Cessna Flyers Forum that like this one has led to both great information on the airplane and new friends.
Anyone considering this step I would be glad to talk to.
 
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Good write up. Hopefully she brings many good years of service.

Just got done looking at a 414 rotting on the ramp here at CZL. Think the owner had it in for annual and just ran out of money or something.
 
Just got done looking at a 414 rotting on the ramp here at CZL. Think the owner had it in for annual and just ran out of money or something.

That is a shame. I have many hours in 414s and really enjoyed it. Although like every other plane I have flown, I thought a little more HP would be nice.
 
I was just bummed I didn't get to fly with you in my Mooney. Still, glad you like the new ride and its doing what you want.
 
That is a shame. I have many hours in 414s and really enjoyed it. Although like every other plane I have flown, I thought a little more HP would be nice.

5A3265F7-ECA3-428E-AD79-1CE83958F86C.jpeg

Yeah, looks halfway decent in the pic but she’s in bad shape. I remember talking to the A&P working on it in the hangar and he expressed concern about not getting paid for his work. Next thing you know, the hangar closes its doors and the 414 has been sitting on the ramp for about a year now wasting away.
 
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Do you use S&S for your maintenance? They have done all mine since 2007 and they are great to work with!! My 425 is there right now waiting on me to pick it up!! Sorry about the engine so soon in the ownership cycle, a friend had that happen to a 421C and it took forever to get at reman hung on it, but he used a different shop than I use.
 
Lance, your 1st and 4th reasons are what really matter.

As you know, I've been enjoying the 414 in spite of the trials and tribulations I've been dealing with. Really they're great planes. Like @Zeldman more power would be nice, but once you get up to cruise, the speeds aren't bad at all. Twin ownership isn't for the faint of heart, but it is a lot of fun.
 
Do you use S&S for your maintenance? They have done all mine since 2007 and they are great to work with!! My 425 is there right now waiting on me to pick it up!! Sorry about the engine so soon in the ownership cycle, a friend had that happen to a 421C and it took forever to get at reman hung on it, but he used a different shop than I use.
Yes, I use S&S, and I bring the 414A I contract fly for up there as well. I was there yesterday and saw them washing your plane. Very nice. Mine is in the back of the hangar just being finished up. Hopefully can go get it early next week. Jimmy is quite the guy.
 
Lance, I'm glad you're having fun, keep the stories coming!
 
Lance, thanks for the write up. I love the experience stories to balance the mx pain


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Full access to the mooney still? Pretty sweet!
 
Full access to the mooney still? Pretty sweet!
Our partnership has worked our extraordinarily well over the years. Mutually beneficial to both parties the whole time. Really we've never had a conflict. We own our 60'x50' hangar together as well.
 
Full access to the mooney still? Pretty sweet!

He's flying three airplanes and TWO of them are owned by someone else. That's beyond sweet :cool: :)
 
... wanted a plane I could take them and their parents with Sue and me to interesting places ...

o_O

Lance, your 1st and 4th reasons are what really matter.

I’m glad you didn’t say second. LOL.

Nope. No interesting places singles can go that twins can’t... hahaha.

Just pulling your leg, Lance.

Can I borrow your co-owner? If so, we could add him to my other co-owner since he likes buying multiple airplanes and everybody can fly them... :) :) :)

I really liked my multi training. I see very little chance of adding any significant multi time to my logbook without buying one someday. Which makes me and my wallet sad. Probably my investment advisor, too.

He won’t like it when I call someday to cash out that much money. Probably say things like, “You’re going to be eating cat food in retirement and your wife isn’t going to like that...” and other nice things. He’s a good egg. :)
 
Congratulation Lance . This year i start ownership on the C310R, love the plane for cross country trip , if I do not know every bolt on my plane I feel not comfortable , with mechanics we did a big job on plane , we rebuild all the fuel tank system, left engine new fuel pump, fuel divider, prop governor, adjust fuel mix ,prop , adjust fuel pressure , new spar plugs, magneto check, rebuild brake system and landing gear struts, heater fuel pump new, check landing gear rigging , check carefully all AD and many many other works.
I will be happy to meet new friend Twin Cessna owners, about the Twin Cessna forum I do not understand why 3000 owners have to pay money for the forum. Not about money are principles.
 
I'm very glad to hear of another twin Cessna owner on POA. Sounds like you're doing your new plane right. Knowing all systems makes flying and maintaining it so much better and easier. Actually the nominal fee for the Twin Cessna Flyers includes a very nice monthly magazine. The technical information available is really priceless. Most type specific groups have a fee like this to keep things going. I personally think it's money well spent. Nobody is getting rich from it, that's for sure.
 
I will be happy to meet new friend Twin Cessna owners, about the Twin Cessna forum I do not understand why 3000 owners have to pay money for the forum. Not about money are principles.

I didn’t get it the first few years of 310 ownership either, but it’s been worth every penny. The forum is just one part of membership - you also get access to Tony Saxton, the #1 Twin Cessna guru in the country, the magazine, and of course there’s advocacy for Twin Cessnas in general which nobody else is doing. Bob certainly isn’t getting rich off of it at all as Lance said. I did the math and when you factor in expenses, I think he’s probably mostly getting a tax deduction.
 
With all the Citations out there you'd think any twin cezzna group would be a money maker...
 
Actually the nominal fee for the Twin Cessna Flyers includes a very nice monthly magazine. The technical information available is really priceless. Most type specific groups have a fee like this to keep things going. I personally think it's money well spent. Nobody is getting rich from it, that's for sure.
@Vitaly , as a Twin Cessna guy myself (and member of TTCF), I completely agree with @Lance F and @Ted DuPuis
 
Yes, I use S&S, and I bring the 414A I contract fly for up there as well. I was there yesterday and saw them washing your plane. Very nice. Mine is in the back of the hangar just being finished up. Hopefully can go get it early next week. Jimmy is quite the guy.
We were waiting on the O2 bottle to come back, UPS lost it and it showed up yesterday, so it all worked out. I am flying on Tuesday, I will probably drive up there and leave from there to pick up my inlaws in NC. Jimmy is a great guy, if I had met him before I sold my Citation, I probably would have kept it too long and lost my butt on it! They really are fair on their pricing and have always done great work for me.
 
Nice write up, Lance. She is a nice plane indeed. Glad you and Sue are getting to enjoy what I would call a dream plane.
 
I'm very glad to hear of another twin Cessna owner on POA. Sounds like you're doing your new plane right. Knowing all systems makes flying and maintaining it so much better and easier. Actually the nominal fee for the Twin Cessna Flyers includes a very nice monthly magazine. The technical information available is really priceless. Most type specific groups have a fee like this to keep things going. I personally think it's money well spent. Nobody is getting rich from it, that's for sure.

I didn’t get it the first few years of 310 ownership either, but it’s been worth every penny. The forum is just one part of membership - you also get access to Tony Saxton, the #1 Twin Cessna guru in the country, the magazine, and of course there’s advocacy for Twin Cessnas in general which nobody else is doing. Bob certainly isn’t getting rich off of it at all as Lance said. I did the math and when you factor in expenses, I think he’s probably mostly getting a tax deduction.

@Vitaly , as a Twin Cessna guy myself (and member of TTCF), I completely agree with @Lance F and @Ted DuPuis

:yeahthat: Another Twin Cessna owner and TTCF member. It's the best educational money I spend as part of ownership. The information flow from TTCF forum has put me ahead of the game with issues long before I ever talk to my A/P. I can't imagine the AMU savings just from avoiding the trial and error troubleshooting. :happydance: It's like training or insurance...:yes:
 
Lance just curious what the cause was of the starter adapters shearing? I'm back to flying 421's and the new boss like to start on left mag only. In the past they had some issues with the cutoff switch on the starter button not doing its job, resulting in some kickback and starter drive shearing.
 
There's a small oil passage that needs to be open that supplies the critical lubrication to the SA. I think mine was somewhat plugged. The only way to check this is to remove the starter, the SA, the top spark plugs and spin the prop by hand to observe the oil flow. One of the overhaul shops has a video of what it should look like.

You want a strong battery and non light weight starter to prevent kick back. On the TSIO520NB any way you do not want to hold the starter push button down. Engine really won't start until you release the button. It's not like a Bendix.

Why Continental went with this complex, expensive, failure prone concept eludes me. If one fails, you're stranded.
 
Why Continental went with this complex, expensive, failure prone concept eludes me. If one fails, you're stranded.
Probably saved them a few bucks.
 
Anyone considering this step I would be glad to talk to.[/QUOTE]

Lance,
Thanks for writing a practical perspective at the cabin class twin. I am in almost exactly your shoes. I purchased my piper Seneca II last year and have put almost 200 hours on it since ownership. It has been great. I am trying to decide between 414 and 421. Any comments on why did you not go for 421 with more HP and a quieter cabin. I know it is about 5 gallons more per hour. Can you put a number on ownership costs for 100 hours a year?

Also, did you consider options (renting, sharing, charter etc) for lowering the ownership costs?
 
One “update”. Got the invoice for first annual at a highly regarded twin Cessna shop. $16,500. Ouch. Main culprits were a heater that flunked the now AD decay test. Many do. And two major pieces of the exhaust system on right engine had to be replaced. . And then a ton of little stuff that adds up. I would not expect next year’s annual to be anywhere near this. Hope I’m right.

I have flown a 421 and they’re fast and quiet. But one has to draw the line somewhere. I have the cabin size of a 421 which was a high priority. They are more expensive to purchase, maintain and operate. Actually if I could move up, I’d go to a 414A.

Since I have a 50 50 partner in the 414 I did not consider other options to outright purchase.

Even though I got bit by some large unplanned expenses the first year, I still feel good about the choice. I really like flying the 414. Because of these expenses I don’t think my 100 hour ownership costs mean anything. But it was a big number.
 
6 months for an engine overhaul relatively soon after getting the airplane sux. Is 6 months a normal time to overhaul an airplane piston engine or is your shop slow ?
 
Lance just curious what the cause was of the starter adapters shearing?

In the GEICO commercial voiceover: 'because that's what you do if you are a Continental starter adapter'.
 
This is a really interesting thread. The idea of a twin has crept into my head over the last few months. I live in Texas and keep a small place in Steamboat. I'd love a plane that will safely taken my family of 5 (kids age 13,11 & 10) from one place to the other. It would make long weekends in CO possible. I'd stay current with Angel Flights and visits to see family (200-500 mm). My Pitts is a lot of fun, but almost useless for going places. For reference, I'm a ~600 hr CSEL/CSES (instrument, tailwheel). Typically fly 50-75 hrs per year.

The problem is that I know little about twins and mountain flying. I have a ton of questions:
-What class of airplane should I be looking at to fulfill that mission and stay under ~$350k? (Barons, Dukes, 340s, 414s, Senecas?)
-Can I even get insurance? I'd like to consider doing the ME training in this plane. May be wiser to do it in something else.
-What's the best way to learn about mountain flying in twins?
-What is the practical dispatch ability? Assuming I'd need ice protection to even attempt it in most cases.
-How far am I from building the skill set to do this safely? I need a plan to get there.
 
-What class of airplane should I be looking at to fulfill that mission and stay under ~$350k? (Barons, Dukes, 340s, 414s, Senecas?)
I would quickly strike Senecas and Dukes from your list. Turbo Barons and 310's could fit the bill but then you have to have the family sucking O2. If that was my budget/mission I would be looking at 340's and 414's (pressurization, bigger cabin, known ice).

If you decide you want to make the plunge, I would suggest joining http://www.twincessna.org/. They can point you in the right direction with training/insurance to accomplish your goal. I personally would knock out the multi rating in a flight school twin then immediately start training in your new plane (they can give you people that will help get you safely trained and insurable). After the initial year, as you fly the insurance will drop substantially each year to something easily palatable.

@Lance F and @Ted DuPuis should be able to give you better/more info.
 
Radar Contact’s suggestions are right on. Get your multi ASAP in a school plane. Start a search for your plane. With 5 people and going into the Rockies the choices are limited. My search lead me to the C414 which would match your mission pretty well too. A C340A has a smaller cabin, so I suggest you get inside both early in your search.

Your time will make insurance a challenge at first, but will be doable. Be prepared to really invest in training. Flying the plane isn’t hard but the ADM goes to a whole different level. Would be great if you could find a mentor pilot of your ultimate type choice in your area. 50 - 75 hours per year is on the light side for staying proficient. You’ll have to choose your trips carefully early on especially going to Steamboat.

In general there are a lot of resources out there like the twin Cessna flyers. Use them.
 
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6 months for an engine overhaul relatively soon after getting the airplane sux. Is 6 months a normal time to overhaul an airplane piston engine or is your shop slow ?
Yes the wait was extremely frustrating. 6 months was about double the original longest time given when I interviewed the shop. However no firm promises were ever given. There were a couple of extenuating circumstances that could be blamed on some but not all of the extra time. The builders position from the start was that it would be done when it was done

The build was good. And the price was as expected. When it’s time to do the other engine I’m not sure at all what I’ll do.
 
I would quickly strike Senecas and Dukes from your list. Turbo Barons and 310's could fit the bill but then you have to have the family sucking O2. If that was my budget/mission I would be looking at 340's and 414's (pressurization, bigger cabin, known ice).

If you decide you want to make the plunge, I would suggest joining http://www.twincessna.org/. They can point you in the right direction with training/insurance to accomplish your goal. I personally would knock out the multi rating in a flight school twin then immediately start training in your new plane (they can give you people that will help get you safely trained and insurable). After the initial year, as you fly the insurance will drop substantially each year to something easily palatable.

@Lance F and @Ted DuPuis should be able to give you better/more info.
Radar Contact’s suggestions are right on. Get your multi ASAP in a school plane. Start a search for your plane. With 5 people and going into the Rockies the choices are limited. My search lead me to the C414 which would match your mission pretty well too. A C340A has a smaller cabin, so I suggest you get inside both early in your search.

Your time will make insurance a challenge at first, but will be doable. Be prepared to really invest in training. Flying the plane isn’t hard but the ADM goes to a whole different level. Would be great if you could find a mentor pilot of your ultimate type choice in your area. 50 - 75 hours per year is on the light side for staying proficient. You’ll have to choose your trips carefully early on especially going to Steamboat.

In general there are a lot of resources out there like the twin Cessna flyers. Use them.

I concur with what @Radar Contact and @Lance F have said. Also, your kids are still growing and the means more junk comes along not to mention friends. The C414 would be what I would be looking for. I would also suggest getting the multi done now and in someone else's plane. I still don't care for pulling engines on mine.
 
This is really helpful. Thanks! I've got an relationship with an instructor here that does a lot of twin training. Sounds like I need to get that process moving. I also start digging into aircraft specifics.

I haven't heard anyone mention a 58P. Thoughts?
 
There can be only one choice - Aerostar. Hard pressed to get more bang for buck than there. Especially in mountainous terrain. The Superstar has single engine ceiling of 14000ft.
 
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