You've gotta be kidding me...

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
In the process of planning my west coast adventure, I came across the following on the Cheyenne sectional:

"For reasons of national welfare, pilots are requested to avoid flights within 3nm of Devils Tower National Monument."

What the hell? It's a piece of rock. What the hell does my flying within 3 nm of a piece of rock have to do with national welfare?!? Anyone know how long this notation has existed on the sectional?

800px-Devils_Tower_CROP.jpg
 
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Tourists? Three miles seems a bit far.

Standby for "Class F."
 
when I flew by, it was marked exactly the same as Mt. Rushmore....is Mt Rushmore notated the same way? if so, its to avoid ruining the experience of those on the ground
 
Sigh, indian sacred site. There's one by Taos too. At least that's just the dotted blue line area, and not an NSA.
 
And for background....

Surely Wisconsin has experienced Native American politics?

Devils Tower National Monument is a spectacular rock formation of
national and cultural significance. The nearly vertical monolith rises
1,267 feet above the winding Belle Fourche River below and was
proclaimed as America’s first national monument by President Theodore
Roosevelt under the Federal Antiquities Act of 1906. This stunning
feature provides a sanctuary for wildlife, park visitors, rock climbing
enthusiasts, and American Indians.

In fact, over twenty American Indian tribes have a cultural affiliation
with this location. Visitors from many of these tribes use this area
as a part of their religious traditions. The quiet nature of this
unique place lends itself to these customs. However, noise pollution
from low-flying aircraft can disrupt these rituals. In an attempt to
respect this site of religious significance, when the airport at
Hulett, Wyoming (W43) was established, an agreement between the Federal
Aviation Administration, Town of Hulett, Hulett Airport Advisory Board,
and Devils Tower National Monument created a “No Fly Advisory Zone”.
The no-fly advisory zone is centered on Devils Tower, extends for two
nautical miles (2 NM) during the months of July-May, three nautical
miles (3 NM) for the month of June, and includes no overflights
throughout the year. The no-fly advisory zone augments existing
Federal Aviation Administration regulations that encompass National
Park areas.

FAA Rules and Regulations
The main Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rule (or regulation)
that is applicable to the Devils Tower National Monument is contained
in the FAA’s Advisory Circular 91-36D, which states, “This Advisory
Circular (AC) encourages pilots making VFR flights near noise-sensitive
areas to fly at altitudes higher than the minimum permitted by
regulation and on flight paths that will reduce aircraft noise in such
areas” [1]. The advisory circular goes on to state:
Excessive aircraft noise can result in annoyance,
inconvenience, or interference with the uses and enjoyment of
property, and can adversely affect wildlife. It is
particularly undesirable in areas where it interferes with
normal activities associated with the area’s use, including
residential, educational, health, and religious structures
and sites, and parks, recreational areas (including areas
with wilderness characteristics), wildlife refuges, and
cultural and historical sites where a quiet setting is a
generally recognized feature or attribute. Moreover, the FAA
recognizes that there are locations in National Parks and
other federally managed areas that have unique noise sensitive
values.

Advisory Circular 91-36D notes voluntary actions that pilots should
take to address the concerns noted above. These voluntary practices
include:

a. Avoidance of noise-sensitive areas, if practical, is
preferable to overflight at relatively low altitudes.
b. Pilots operating noise producing aircraft (fixedwing,
rotary-wing and hot air balloons) over noisesensitive
areas should make every effort to fly not less
than 2,000 feet above ground level (AGL), weather
permitting. For the purpose of this AC, the ground level
of noise-sensitive areas is defined to include the highest
terrain within 2,000 feet AGL laterally of the route of
flight, or the uppermost rim of a canyon or valley. The
intent of the 2,000 feet AGL recommendation is to reduce
potential interference with wildlife and complaints of
noise disturbances caused by low flying aircraft over
noise-sensitive areas.
c. Departure from or arrival to an airport, climb after
take-off, and descent for landing should be made so as to
avoid prolonged flight at low altitudes near noisesensitive
areas.
d. This advisory does not apply where it would conflict
with Federal Aviation Regulations, air traffic control
clearances or instructions, or where an altitude of less
than 2,000 feet AGL is considered necessary by a pilot to
operate safely.

The Circular concludes by noting that, “Aircraft operators, aviation
associations, airport managers, and others are asked to assist in
voluntary compliance with this AC by publicizing it and distributing
information regarding known noise-sensitive areas."

Pilots can easily recognize “noise sensitive” areas as defined by the
Circular, because they are presented graphically on the Sectional
Aeronautical Charts that are published by the U.S. Department of
Transportation, Federal Aviation Administration (Figure 2).

The Devils Tower National Monument is currently shown as a noisesensitive
area. However, when it was decided to construct an airport
in Hulett, Wyoming, only 7.5 miles from Devils Tower, it was decided
that additional measures may be necessary to ensure that aircraft do
not disturb the peaceful environment at the Monument.

No-Fly Advisory Zone Notices
Pilots may be unaware of the voluntary no-fly advisory zone around
Devils Tower, unless they are flying into the Hulett, Wyoming airport
(known as W43). Prior to this project, the no-fly advisory zone is
only indicated as a Notice To Airman (NOTAM) for the airport.
Therefore, a pilot flying through the area (a transient pilot) may not
receive, or have access to the advisory information.

In order for the no-fly advisory zone to be widely recognized, it
needed to be documented (or noted) on the appropriate Sectional Charts.
This is due to the fact that most pilots, especially those flying under
Visual Flight Rules (VFR), carry the appropriate charts (Sectional
Charts) with them. However, the graphics and symbols on Sectional
Charts are highly standardized, and it would likely be very difficult
to convince the FAA to create a new symbol/graphic to depict the no-fly
zone around Devils Tower.

After discussions between the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and
Devils Tower National Monument, it was agreed that a note should be
added on the Billings Sectional that would advise pilots of the no-fly
advisory zone. The Billings Sectional Chart covers the Devils Tower
National Monument area.

The above essay confuses regulations with advisory circulars, obviously, but you get the drift.
 
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Does that TFR apply to those UFOs from Close encounters?????

Pete
 
You weren't hatching a plan were you Kent?

[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]n the fall of 1941 the Tower made the headlines of the Nation's leading newspapers. This was brought about through the fool-hardy stunt of a professional parachutist named George Hopkins. Without the consent or knowledge of National Park Service officials, Hopkins, who held a number of United States and world's records for spectacular jumps, on October 1 parachuted from an airplane to the top of the Tower. His plan was to make his descent by means of a one-half inch 1,000-foot rope which was dropped from the plane. Unfortunately, this rope landed on the side of the Tower and Hopkins was unable to get it. The Park Service was confronted with a serious problem, and newspapers throughout the country made the most of the predicament. Telegrams and letters offering advice on how to rescue Hopkins came from all over the United States. Meanwhile, food and blankets were dropped to him while Service officials considered how to get the man down from the giant formation.
After weighing carefully various methods, the Service, on October 3, decided to accept the offer of Jack Durrance, a student at Dartmouth College, skier and mountain climber who had led the second mountain-climbing ascent of the Tower in 1938, to lead the rescue party. More food, water, and blankets were dropped to Hopkins and assurances were given him that help was coming. Advice and offers of assistance continued. The Goodyear Company offered to loan the use of a blimp to effect the rescue. The Navy offered the use of a helicopter. Bad weather, meanwhile, grounded Durrance's plane, so the mountain climber had to travel to Denver by train. On October 5, Durrance and his party arrived at the monument. Working closely with Service officials, they laid out a safe climbing route for rescue operations. On the following day, Durrance led seven other climbers to the summit of the tower where they found Hopkins who, in spite of his ordeal, was in excellent physical condition and in good spirits. The descent was made with little difficulty. The stranded stunt man and the rescue operations which received wide publicity attracted many spectators from all parts of the Nation. During the six-day period, some 7,000 visitors came to the monument to see him and witness rescue operations.
 
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And yet it's ok for rock climbers to scale this "sacred" rock?

And since when does a hot-air balloon in flight generate noise that can be detected on the ground above ambient noise levels?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating buzzing the area, but this is ridiculous.
 
If the Indians wanted to keep it to themselves - and keep others away - they should have invented guns before the white man got here!
 
And yet it's ok for rock climbers to scale this "sacred" rock?

And since when does a hot-air balloon in flight generate noise that can be detected on the ground above ambient noise levels?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating buzzing the area, but this is ridiculous.

There are voluntary climbing moratoriums during certain parts (I believe June) of the year too.

Some of you all are obviously not from the West :D
 
I understand the cultural thing, I understand noise sensitive areas in parks, I understand everything that everyone has said...

What I don't understand is how this has anything to do with "National welfare." :dunno: Sure, I can **** off some indians and tourists, but affect national welfare? I say again, you've gotta be kidding me.
 
These notations are all over places in the western US. Get used to it. Hey, see if there's one over the Dells. Prolly not.
 
I understand the cultural thing, I understand noise sensitive areas in parks, I understand everything that everyone has said...

What I don't understand is how this has anything to do with "National welfare." :dunno: Sure, I can **** off some indians and tourists, but affect national welfare? I say again, you've gotta be kidding me.

As someone who has spent government money and time negotiating with a sovereign Indian nation, I can tell you that avoiding ****ing off Native American groups does indeed benefit the national welfare :rolleyes:

What else are they going to say? Like Docmirror says above, when in Rome...
 
As someone who has spent government money and time negotiating with a sovereign Indian nation, I can tell you that avoiding ****ing off Native American groups does indeed benefit the national welfare :rolleyes:

What else are they going to say? Like Docmirror says above, when in Rome...

Easy....scrap the stupid arse treaties, say "Welcome to America, you are now full U.S. ONLY citizens" and get over the collective bs-guilt crap over what happened 150-200 years ago.

:dunno:
 
Easy....scrap the stupid arse treaties, say "Welcome to America, you are now full U.S. ONLY citizens" and get over the collective bs-guilt crap over what happened 150-200 years ago.

:dunno:

Or tell em to go back to living in teepees and wigwams and spearing fish for food.
 
I think a total exclusion of aircraft from national parks and other scenic places is very unfair. I have advocated a shared approach, where aircraft are banned part of the year (or day, or week) and permitted at other times.

Heck, why do they allow all those rafters in the Colorado R, it spoils my aerial view of the place. How about all those pedestrians around Rushmore, that's not fair to aviators.
 
If the Indians wanted to keep it to themselves - and keep others away - they should have invented guns before the white man got here!

Or tell em to go back to living in teepees and wigwams and spearing fish for food.

I am intrigued by your views and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :D
 
I am intrigued by your views and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :D

Newsletter subscribers: 1
That's an infinity percent increase over yesterday. :yes:
 
I think a total exclusion of aircraft from national parks and other scenic places is very unfair. I have advocated a shared approach, where aircraft are banned part of the year (or day, or week) and permitted at other times.

Heck, why do they allow all those rafters in the Colorado R, it spoils my aerial view of the place. How about all those pedestrians around Rushmore, that's not fair to aviators.

I'm not aware of any national park or scenic area in this nation where aircraft are excluded :confused:
 
These places look a lot less impressive from the air than they do from the ground. There's really no point to flying over or around them anyway unless you can go way below 2000' AGL. You just get no sense of perspective from an aircraft even going as slow as 80 kts at 2000 AGL or above.
 
There are several, including the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, Assateague National Seashore, Niagara Falls State park, and others.
I think he meant 'excluded' to mean that under no circumstances can you fly over the area. Most all of these places have altitude restrictions such as boundary water's 4000'MSL restriction.
 
I think he meant 'excluded' to mean that under no circumstances can you fly over the area. Most all of these places have altitude restrictions such as boundary water's 4000'MSL restriction.

OK, I'm not 100% sure what he meant, then, but...

If you fly in the Prohibited airspace described on the chart, you are breakin da law, breakin da law!

Prohibited airspace overlies many places in the United States, including parks, monuments, wildlife refuges, etc.

It's good practice to steer clear if able.
 
As someone who has spent government money and time negotiating with a sovereign Indian nation, I can tell you that avoiding ****ing off Native American groups does indeed benefit the national welfare :rolleyes:

C'mon, I support the Native Americans! I gave at the casino. :D :D :D :rofl: :goofy:
 
Sigh, indian sacred site. There's one by Taos too. At least that's just the dotted blue line area, and not an NSA.
Yabut that Pueblo at Taos is labled a World Heritage Site and there are ground based plane spotters who will report aircraft which will result in a heavy hammer befalling the poor pilot.

Even with such a heavy handed policy there are on average 5 planes per week all year long which violate the airspace.
 
One of my favorites is the 5 nm* radius R-space just SW of KFLG Flagstaff. Ostensibly it is to avoid overflight of ordnance storage bunkers but 5 miles? From 5 nm and 1,000 agl I have an unobstructed view and could be an explosive hole within seconds if I so choose.

*I don't remember if it's 5 nm or smaller. I only remember it is redicously small.
 
I think he meant 'excluded' to mean that under no circumstances can you fly over the area. Most all of these places have altitude restrictions such as boundary water's 4000'MSL restriction.

Grand Canyon has such a high minimum altitude that you might as well forget going there. National parks have an almost-mandatory 2000'agl requirement.
 
Yabut that Pueblo at Taos is labled a World Heritage Site and there are ground based plane spotters who will report aircraft which will result in a heavy hammer befalling the poor pilot.

Even with such a heavy handed policy there are on average 5 planes per week all year long which violate the airspace.

Requested vs. prohibited though. They can report all they want, but it's not a bust. Good relations, no. A bust, no.
 
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