YouTuber on the 1500 Hour Rule. What Do You Think?

In 1990, I needed nearly 1,500 hours to get a job flying air tours in a C-207. When I reached 1,500, and got the ATP, I moved up to the C-402. In 1991, it took almost 2,500 hours and ~600 MEL to get on with a regional airline flying a 19-seat turboprop for $15.50/hr (about $14k/yr). I had about 5,400 hours when I got my first jet job (DC9). The job market took care of the experience problem back then.

The Colgan Captain's actions were consistent with an attempted recovery from a tailplane stall which was a hot topic in turboprops at the time. Of course, they weren't in a tailplane stall.

The F/O's actions were consistent with the go-around procedure. But, the Captain wasn't doing a go-around.

Very poor situational awareness and crew communication during the approach and accident.

dmspilot said:
"1500 or 1250 or 1000 or 750-hour rule depending on your training" doesn't roll of the tongue.
Click to expand...
"ATP rule" is easy enough to say and is more accurate than "1,500 hour rule". There are a lot of additional training and experience requirements to earn an ATP beyond that which is required for a commercial. The total time requirements are just a small part of it.
 
I find it hard to believe that flying right seat in a Skyhawk for a thousand or so hours has anything at all to do with flying an airliner. Sounds a lot more like the sort of knee-jerk reaction our legislature is all too well known for.
 
steingar said:
I find it hard to believe that flying right seat in a Skyhawk for a thousand or so hours has anything at all to do with flying an airliner. Sounds a lot more like the sort of knee-jerk reaction our legislature is all too well known for.
Click to expand...

Basic airmanship. The skills developed flying smaller airplanes do help when transistioning to larger faster aircraft.
 
In my relatively untutored opinion, too many pilots (ATP and otherwise) these days seem to lack an interest in acquiring a "feel" for the aircraft they are flying. There are many reasons, among which, were the early Airbus aircraft whose sidestick controls had no feedback response to manual input (I understand that has since been corrected). Many chief pilots encourage their pilots to engage the autopilot as soon as possible on climbout and not to revert to manual control until MDA of the approach. The computer age has also intruded upon GA aircraft, many of which are highly automated. I remember that back when the Colgan Air crash occurred, I looked into the background of the Captain of CA 3407, and was amazed to find that he considered his airline career as just another job. That was an unusual attitude at the time; however, I feel that attitude has become more common in the industry. I guess that as flying machines become more and more capable of flying themselves, pilots become less interested in manually controlling (flying) their aircraft), and aren't even interested in looking out the window.
 
steingar said:
I find it hard to believe that flying right seat in a Skyhawk for a thousand or so hours has anything at all to do with flying an airliner.
Click to expand...
It has a lot to do with flying airliners. A CFI spends his days thinking about what the student is doing wrong and how to teach them to do it right. The experience gained applies directly to flying any airplane of any size.

You're still focusing on the total time requirement. As I said above, the ATP rule requires a lot of training and experience, above and beyond the requirements for commercial, that have nothing at all to do with total time.
 
Last edited:
Doc Holliday said:
Basic airmanship. The skills developed flying smaller airplanes do help when transistioning to larger faster aircraft.
Click to expand...
Things like understanding the value of pitch and power relationships, how to fly an approach with a DA vs an approach with an MDA, and the ability to learn the procedures specific to an airplane translate very well between light airplanes and Transport Category airplanes. Unfortunately I see a lot of pilots whose foundation in the basics is so weak that they’re not applying what they know to a new airplane, they’re learning to fly from scratch.
 
aftCG said:
*** chief. Most resumes cross my desk first.
Click to expand...

Ah, you’re the new Denny! Which shift are you on? I’m in Bethel quite a bit and always come over to your work to say hi to everyone. We may have already met lol
 
I'm going to dissent from the prevailing opinion for a different reason. The assumption is that the 1500 hours teaches better flying skills. I kind of agree that this might not be the case. But I do think the guy that's flown 1500 hours might have a *slightly* better chance of realizing that his airline isn't perfect, the planes might not be maintained perfectly, and they might not even be designed perfectly. Or, in other words, the 1500+ hour guy might be a bit more cynical, and that might be enough to help keep them alive.

Maybe this is all wet, and I'm just thinking it because *I'm* a somewhat cynical old guy.
 
If we listen to Malcom Gladwell, it takes about 10,000 hours of correct practice to achieve true expertise in a skill.
 
Last edited:
TCABM said:
If we listened to Malcom Gladwell, it takes about 10,000 hours of correct practice to achieve true expertise in a skill.
Click to expand...

If you suck at it maybe. :D Heck, I'm the best guy I know at doing what I know. ;)
 
DavidWhite said:
Ah, you’re the new Denny! Which shift are you on? I’m in Bethel quite a bit and always come over to your work to say hi to everyone. We may have already met lol
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm the new Denny. It's been a weird couple of months but I'm generally second shift.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Basic airmanship. The skills developed flying smaller airplanes do help when transistioning to larger faster aircraft.
Click to expand...
If you need 1500 hours flying in a Skyhawk to learn airmanship I certainly don't want you in the front seat of an airliner in which I'm flying thank you.
 
steingar said:
If you need 1500 hours flying in a Skyhawk to learn airmanship I certainly don't want you in the front seat of an airliner in which I'm flying thank you.
Click to expand...

Try sticking to topics in which you know something about. You're welcome.
 

Attachments

  • clear.png
    clear.png
    137 bytes · Views: 11
steingar said:
If you need 1500 hours flying in a Skyhawk to learn airmanship I certainly don't want you in the front seat of an airliner in which I'm flying thank you.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Reminds me of that saying that he who is faithful in little things will be faithful in much. There is a lot of wisdom in that saying.
 
steingar said:
If you need 1500 hours flying in a Skyhawk to learn airmanship I certainly don't want you in the front seat of an airliner in which I'm flying thank you.
Click to expand...

You don’t even need it to be all airplane time. You can get >1000 hours piloting a ballon.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Try sticking to topics in which you know something about. You're welcome.
Click to expand...
If I needed that kind of time to transition and get a really good feel of any light aircraft I'd have been out of the game long long ago. This is a topic about which I actually know quite a bit, having quite a few hours in the cockpit myself. Sorry if you don't like it.

Larry in TN said:
You're still focusing on the total time requirement. As I said above, the ATP rule requires a lot of training and experience, above and beyond the requirements for commercial, that have nothing at all to do with total time.
Click to expand...

The 1500 hour rule was the idea of some Congresscritter who's only qualification for the job was likely big hair, a photogenic profile and loads and loads of BS.It conforms to nothing at all in reality and isn't used anywhere else in the world. Moreover, it wasn't even a solution to the crash that prompted it. Just another really dumb idea by Congress. I'm amazed anyone on this site would defend it.
 
Stop with the "1,500 hour" rule mantra. It is not a 1,500 hour rule. It is an ATP rule.

Qualifying ATPs have total time requirements of 750, 1,000, 1,250, or 1,500 hours, depending on the type of training received.

Qualifying ATPs have a long list of requirements, total time is only one of them.
 
Yesterday, a friends newish 1000+ hour co-pilot on a charter flight could not even read back taxi instructions at a class Delta. It didn’t get better from there. Hypothetically that is. Allegedly in Minecraft. Maybe at 1500 he will get better. If this story was real that is. Which it isn’t.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top