Youth in Aviation, some thoughts

[David_L_Wilson]

The challenges we face today in getting the young to be involved with aviation is a daunting one. It’s hard enough to get them to put down their mobile phones and stop texting long enough to see the value in it. With XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii we have even greater challenges. When we were young there was not a whole lot to do besides play outside and build model planes. We spent our summers fishing and playing cowboys and Indians. Attending an air show was a great thrill to us. The young people today have so many distractions that interesting them in a, difficult, expensive but worthwhile activity, such as flying is daunting. As a web community of pilots the burden falls on us to find the solution. Many of us could say we love the idea but do not have the time for it. We must make time if we are going to win the war against useless pursuits such as mentioned above. Being a pilot in of itself is a great self esteem builder. Many of our young people are lead down the rocky path of alcohol and drugs because of this. Teen pregnancy is becoming epidemic. These youth need something in their lives that they are not getting from society. Remember when you earned your wings? Was it not one of the greatest accomplishments of your life? Lets find a way to bring these lost youths into aviation.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Got any suggestions?

 

[Everskyward]

The challenges we face today in getting the young to be involved with aviation is a daunting one. It’s hard enough to get them to put down their mobile phones and stop texting long enough to see the value in it. With XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii we have even greater challenges. When we were young there was not a whole lot to do besides play outside and build model planes. We spent our summers fishing and playing cowboys and Indians. Attending an air show was a great thrill to us. The young people today have so many distractions that interesting them in a, difficult, expensive but worthwhile activity, such as flying is daunting.

For one thing, I don't buy that things were so much better than we were young. I remember spending a lot of time being bored and disaffected. There are a lot of things kids have these days that I would have liked back then. I guess the rose-colored glasses don't work for me.

From the thread about "When did you decide to take the big step?" I think it's clear that people are either naturally interested or become interested at a fairly young age. I think air shows are still a thrill for some kids. I went to one last summer and they had a much bigger turnout than expected which caused all kinds of logistical problems, but it shows that people are still interested in such things. I saw lots of families there.

One thing that could be a factor is being an airline pilot is not the glamorous goal it was in the past. Kids think about what they want to be when they grow up (as a job), not what kind of hobby they want to have. How many times have you heard people say recently that being a pilot is not the way to go?

I don't really have a solution. I'm not even sure there is a problem. Of the people I knew when I was young I can't remember many being interested in becoming a pilot, in fact I don't remember any, so I'm not convinced that things have changed that much.

 

[dmccormack]

There are several organizations dedicated to this effort, including the EAA Young Eagles, Explorer program, Junior ROTC, and Civil Air Patrol.

 

[steingar]

When I was a kid my contemporaries who wanted to fly wished to do so for the military or the airlines. Career paths in either are not what they once were. Young people can't afford to fly unless they are preternaturally successful, anyway. When one is young one has priorities other than ungodly expensive toys.

 

[EppyGA]

Our EAA Chapter started an Explorer Post last year. I have been working with them as an adviser. We've found that it is hard to get these kids to ask questions or really tell us what they are interested in. The only thing so far they've really been excited about was going down to the Delta simulator facility. Of course the parents were excited too, never saw so many parents suddenly volunteer to drive!

We've had talks amongst the advisers to figure out how to motivate them and we're baffled so far.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Lots of breaks for kids in Soaring. Scholarships, reduced club membership costs, etc. The kids that do take advantage and learn to fly gliders disappear during or after college. No one knows how many re-appear as active pilots later in life. The 'airport kid' has been dead for decades, I'm not sure 'airport kids' were ever more than urban legend anyway. I just turned 40 and I grew up near a grass strip word on the play ground was kids hanging around the airport were greeted with rocksalt. Most who want to will show up eventually the ones who want to but don't are sissies that is their problem not ours.

 

[ntbjounin]

personally, I always wanted to be a pilot... but when I was probably 8, i was getting off an airline flight and asked how i can become a pilot. "Gotta join the military"....
well, that was in my head forever...
i bought flight simulator games etc... i thought the computer sims were quite helpful in a transition.

 

[Trapper John]

The challenges we face today in getting the young to be involved with aviation is a daunting one. It’s hard enough to get them to put down their mobile phones and stop texting long enough to see the value in it. With XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii we have even greater challenges. When we were young there was not a whole lot to do besides play outside and build model planes. We spent our summers fishing and playing cowboys and Indians. Attending an air show was a great thrill to us. The young people today have so many distractions that interesting them in a, difficult, expensive but worthwhile activity, such as flying is daunting. As a web community of pilots the burden falls on us to find the solution. Many of us could say we love the idea but do not have the time for it. We must make time if we are going to win the war against useless pursuits such as mentioned above. Being a pilot in of itself is a great self esteem builder. Many of our young people are lead down the rocky path of alcohol and drugs because of this. Teen pregnancy is becoming epidemic. These youth need something in their lives that they are not getting from society. Remember when you earned your wings? Was it not one of the greatest accomplishments of your life? Lets find a way to bring these lost youths into aviation.

I don't think anyone would disagree that involving young people in aviation is a good thing.

But to approach it from the perspective that kids texting and playing X-Box or Wii is a bad thing, shows a lack of understanding of kids, to say the least. Most kids will pick up on this kind of attitude very quickly, and you won't get your message through, no matter how well intentioned you are.


Trapper John

 

[dmccormack]

But to approach it from the perspective that kids texting and playing X-Box or Wii is a bad thing, shows a lack of understanding of kids, to say the least. Most kids will pick up on this kind of attitude very quickly, and you won't get your message through, no matter how well intentioned you are.

Trapper John

Agreed -- how many pilots on this board started out with a desktop flight sim?

I know folks that started bowling and tennis after playing it on the Wii.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Kids are experiencing life in a virtual fashion now. Simulated everything, from flight to games to visiting friends. It's all electronic, nothing is real. Such kids find the real world too dangerous and dirty, and boring to boot. Just try to take one of them fishing or camping. Too hot, too cold, too many bugs, no cell service, no action.

We'd benefit from an electron shortage, maybe.

Dan

 

[ClimbnSink]

I think todays kids are fine. Kids used to sit around and whittle for entertainment is it wrong to choose Grand Theft Auto over whittling? Of course not, I got to choose Atari over whittling. GAs only real value proposition is you get to fly. Everything else is an excuse. How entertaining is flying? Sure it is fun, now throw in all the rules- less fun, add the price and...
My guess given we escape the 'dark ages II' is that GA travel will become less prevalent and people will fly little stuff for fun. Which I see as a rational choice- I wonder how many prospective pilots are turned off by the fly by the numbers, straight and level drone along stuff. That is the path handed to most people that show up at FBOs.

 

[Arbiter419]

Agreed -- how many pilots on this board started out with a desktop flight sim?

This kid right here. I mean, I've been exposed to aviation since before I could walk, but flight simulator is just such a great tool for pre-flight and post-flight learning sessions. I have FSX, and my instructor and I have already started going over basic IFR procedures in it that will save us bunches of time (and money) in the air. Now just to finish up that private certificate before I graduate...

 

[Everskyward]

I wonder how many prospective pilots are turned off by the fly by the numbers, straight and level drone along stuff. That is the path handed to most people that show up at FBOs.

I also wonder how many pilots are turned off by all the rules. I think a lot of people are attracted to it initially by the thought of freedom and the ability to be like a bird. That's what attracted me anyway. Then they find out that it's really a very highly regulated activity. They come onto sites like this and see people parsing the FARs....

 

[dmccormack]

I also wonder how many pilots are turned off by all the rules. I think a lot of people are attracted to it initially by the thought of freedom and the ability to be like a bird. That's what attracted me anyway. Then they find out that it's really a very highly regulated activity. They come onto sites like this and see people parsing the FARs....

...but it says right here, in subsection 32.c....

Well, you'll have rule-parsers in any activity. Spend some time around Little League baseball ....

 

[ClimbnSink]

I also wonder how many pilots are turned off by all the rules. I think a lot of people are attracted to it initially by the thought of freedom and the ability to be like a bird. That's what attracted me anyway. Then they find out that it's really a very highly regulated activity. They come onto sites like this and see people parsing the FARs....

+1. I know someone who was going to buy a jetski but didn't because the state they lived in required a 5 hour safety course. Merits of that aside, a 5 hour probably impossible to fail class was enough to send a buyer away. Imagine trying to convince someone like that the FAR/AIM really isn't that bad.

 

[dmccormack]

+1. I know someone who was going to buy a jetski but didn't because the state they lived in required a 5 hour safety course. Merits of that aside, a 5 hour probably impossible to fail class was enough to send a buyer away. Imagine trying to convince someone like that the FAR/AIM really isn't that bad.

In Pennsylvania we have a mandatory hunter safety class that usually consists of an entire Saturday and most of Sunday.

You'll crawl through glass if you really want to do something.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

I'm a yuuuut. What's a yuuuut? A yuuuut, ya know?

Honestly I try my best to share my passion with friends my age and always offer to take them flying whenever they want. It's a lot of fun and I love to see how they react behind the controls. I guess I'm not the typical teenager. I'm not even pregnant in case you were wondering (you mentioned it is now an epidemic).

 

[Ghery]

I'm a yuuuut. What's a yuuuut? A yuuuut, ya know?

Honestly I try my best to share my passion with friends my age and always offer to take them flying whenever they want. It's a lot of fun and I love to see how they react behind the controls. I guess I'm not the typical teenager. I'm not even pregnant in case you were wondering (you mentioned it is now an epidemic).

You'd be making medical history, if you were.

 

[Kelvin]

Heck yeah...fly them...

Here is my friend's son, Jerald...first flight, four years old...his dad is a police officer. He wanted to be a police officers till I let him "drive" the plane. Now he wants to be a pilot. He is still talking about this flight two weeks later. Looks like the flight made quite an impression on him.

One kid at a time is my suggestion. If you see someone with a genuine interest, give them the gift of flight.

Got any suggestions?

 

[GMascelli]

Heck yeah...fly them...

Here is my friend's son, Jerald...first flight, four years old...his dad is a police officer. He wanted to be a police officers till I let him "drive" the plane. Now he wants to be a pilot. He is still talking about this flight two weeks later. Looks like the flight made quite an impression on him.
One kid at a time is my suggestion. If you see someone with a genuine interest, give them the gift of flight.

Good post.....

I was contacted by a CAP youngster, only 13years old. This wanna be pilot listens on Live ATC plus has a scanner for KILG WIlmington. He has heard me in and out of ILG quite often and tracked my tail number which led to my blog and on to my email. He finally contacted me and asked about the possibility of flying. I asked his age and let him know I would have to get that cleared through his parents.

We are scheduled to meet at the airport saturday after I get back from the North East Flyers, Reading meet up. I'm not sure who was more excited his Mom or the youngster. His mother tells me it's all about flying for this kid, eat sleep and drink it. I'm excited I have the chance to give back and get this future pilot in the air and having some fun.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You'll crawl through glass if you really want to do something.

I hear crawling through glass is going to be in the next PTS. Why should young people put up with ridiculous hurdles, they can just go buy a sportbike that is faster and has more power than the little airplanes they would need to crawl through glass to get to.

 

[dmccormack]

I hear crawling through glass is going to be in the next PTS. Why should young people put up with ridiculous hurdles, they can just go buy a sportbike that is faster and has more power than the little airplanes they would need to crawl through glass to get to.

I have a sportbike.

Yet I crawled through glass and put up with the Fundamentals of Instruction and a ridiculous hoop checkride for the CFI.

 

[ClimbnSink]

The OP is asking about bringing young people into aviation, my point is the nonsense level is too high. Not too high for you and me, but high enough to keep young people away.

 

[dmccormack]

The OP is asking about bringing young people into aviation, my point is the nonsense level is too high. Not too high for you and me, but high enough to keep young people away.

The "nonsense level" is high in every activity these days. Do you have kids? Are they involved in organized sports?

If so, you'll know all about it.

The single largest obstacle to "youth in aviation" is cost. The second is lack of interest.

Face it -- we're not gonna buy an ad campaign and suddenly see hoardes of 14 year olds breaking down FBO doors.

Gary's approach is best -- encourage a kid, take him /her up for a ride, and see if the interest blossoms into commitment.

Enthusiasm is the downpayment on success. It doesn't stand alone.

 

[Everskyward]

The single largest obstacle to "youth in aviation" is cost. The second is lack of interest.

Face it -- we're not gonna buy an ad campaign and suddenly see hoardes of 14 year olds breaking down FBO doors.

Gary's approach is best -- encourage a kid, take him /her up for a ride, and see if the interest blossoms into commitment.

I agree. What we seem not to be thinking about here is that while it's good to expose kids to various opportunities including aviation, their drive does and should come from within. Why is it that some children who are exposed to aviation from birth have no interest and others who don't know anyone who is a pilot develop the interest? Can any of you remember your parents trying to encourage you to pursue a certain activity because it's what they wanted for you but it wasn't what you wanted at all?

 

[dmccormack]

I agree. What we seem not to be thinking about here is that while it's good to expose kids to various opportunities including aviation, their drive does and should come from within. Why is it that some children who are exposed to aviation from birth have no interest and others who don't know anyone who is a pilot develop the interest? Can any of you remember your parents trying to encourage you to pursue a certain activity because it's what they wanted for you but it wasn't what you wanted at all?

My son is an example. He's 19 -- I've provided him left seat time, let him fly, told him I'd get him through his PP for the price of gas -- car gas, 3 gph.

"Yeah, that's cool..."

Flying just isn't his thing.

(And we do plenty else together so it's not a case of dad rejection)

 

[ClimbnSink]

I guess that is it, take a kid flying if you can. I have a 5 year old we aren't in the organized sports fun yet. Not looking forward to that.

The "nonsense level" is high in every activity these days. Do you have kids? Are they involved in organized sports?

If so, you'll know all about it.

The single largest obstacle to "youth in aviation" is cost. The second is lack of interest.

Face it -- we're not gonna buy an ad campaign and suddenly see hoardes of 14 year olds breaking down FBO doors.

Gary's approach is best -- encourage a kid, take him /her up for a ride, and see if the interest blossoms into commitment.

Enthusiasm is the downpayment on success. It doesn't stand alone.

 

[dmccormack]

I guess that is it, take a kid flying if you can. I have a 5 year old we aren't in the organized sports fun yet. Not looking forward to that.

It's fun at the T-ball and intro soccer level (looks like an amoeba chasing the ball all over the field ).

I coached, ump'ed, and ref'ed baseball and basketball all ages -- from T-ball to High School.

Worst -- positively worst -- parents and fans were Little League and Jr High Girls Basketball. They knew so little about the game they took every strike and every foul as a personal attack on their dear blob of wonderfulness.

 

[Diana]

The challenges we face today in getting the young to be involved with aviation is a daunting one. It’s hard enough to get them to put down their mobile phones and stop texting long enough to see the value in it. With XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii we have even greater challenges. When we were young there was not a whole lot to do besides play outside and build model planes. We spent our summers fishing and playing cowboys and Indians. Attending an air show was a great thrill to us. The young people today have so many distractions that interesting them in a, difficult, expensive but worthwhile activity, such as flying is daunting. As a web community of pilots the burden falls on us to find the solution. Many of us could say we love the idea but do not have the time for it. We must make time if we are going to win the war against useless pursuits such as mentioned above. Being a pilot in of itself is a great self esteem builder. Many of our young people are lead down the rocky path of alcohol and drugs because of this. Teen pregnancy is becoming epidemic. These youth need something in their lives that they are not getting from society. Remember when you earned your wings? Was it not one of the greatest accomplishments of your life? Lets find a way to bring these lost youths into aviation.

I guess I don't see kids the way that you do.

This is how I see them:

Tom and I have been taking kids flying for years, way before the Young Eagles program was established. Many of those people are now pilots and mechanics.

A lot of kids in this rural community are out working on the family farms, out riding horses, out hunting with their families in addition to doing all the other activities that don't involve electronic devices.

Most of what I have to say I've already said:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=976

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1280

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13635

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19465

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27614

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28699

My nephew just turned 14. His sister is the girl who wrote the article mentioned in a thread above. I took him for his second aerobatic ride when they were here for Thanksgiving. He filmed it while we were flying and made a video for a school contest about having a passion for something. He won first place in his media category. I have it on a DVD, but will post his video when he gets me a different version of it because I can't convert it from the DVD format to my computer. For Christmas we gave them an official pilot log book and a gift certificate for their first official flying lesson with Tom. We've been taking them flying for years and let them fly. They can't wait to fly again and will likely both become pilots.

Maybe I'm seeing a different bunch of kids than you are.

BTW, we will be taking from 70 to 80 kids flying in April, so we might need some help again this year.

 

[gismo]

Agreed -- how many pilots on this board started out with a desktop flight sim?

Probably not many who started flying in the 70's like me. In those days a "desktop flight sim" meant a $6000 ATC 610. My introduction to flight was in a kite towed behind a boat.

 

[dmccormack]

Probably not many who started flying in the 70's like me. In those days a "desktop flight sim" meant a $6000 ATC 610. My introduction to flight was in a kite towed behind a boat.

The first Sim I flew was a desktop Cessna in 1979. Literally sat on a table.

I also flew an F-4 sim. Only difference was the panel layout.

Now the FA-18 sim was awesome...

 

[Everskyward]

Probably not many who started flying in the 70's like me.

OK, but it seems like quite a few people were inspired by "Sky King". Hmmm, kids watching the boob tube, gotta be a bad thing...

 

[flav8r]

When I was a kid I loved going to my Grandmothers house because she lived down the street from the local airport.
I would walk, bike or hike over to the airport to watch anything from a blimp to coast guard helicopters land at this fairly busy GA airport (Opa-Locka, FL).
If I was lucky enough I would spot someone cleaning their plane and I would offer my assistance and if I was really lucky they would offer me a ride or at least let me sit in the plane.

The best part was that my grandmother hand tenants and most if not all of them were student pilots that came from far off countries to study aviation in the states.

Now a days when I visit most GA airports I feel unwelcomed as if though I were trespassing and I'm a licensed pilot.
Most of these little airports are now fenced in like some sort of high level security institution.
So I to have wonder where and how will the spark of aviation be ignited for the next generation when they can't even get close enough to smell the aviation fuel or see what they are missing.

I too take part in the Young Eagles program but what happens to the kids that just want to come back and hang out?

We need to create more observation areas (like KGMU) where the young and young at heart can go to watch planes take off and land.

JMTCW

David - KFHB

 

[ClimbnSink]

Now a days when I visit most GA airports I feel unwelcomed as if though I were trespassing and I'm a licensed pilot.

That is unfortunate and more prevalent than many realize or are willing to admit. I think the take a kid flying plan works, but without open access it limits flying exposure to 'legacy' kids. Better than nothing.

 

[GMascelli]

I agree. What we seem not to be thinking about here is that while it's good to expose kids to various opportunities including aviation, their drive does and should come from within. Why is it that some children who are exposed to aviation from birth have no interest and others who don't know anyone who is a pilot develop the interest? Can any of you remember your parents trying to encourage you to pursue a certain activity because it's what they wanted for you but it wasn't what you wanted at all?

Yep, but in reverse!. My dad worked me like a dog in construction so I WOULD NOT want to follow in that field. Well, here I am a Project Manager for the Bay Authority Engineering Department. I started out in the field doing inspection and worked my way through the ranks and college. I secretly think he was proud of what I did and he really loved the bridge work that I am involved with.

 

[Dan Thomas]

We can beef about the endless rules, but those rules are imposed by regulators in response to demands from the public every time there's another accident. And in my 37 years around airplanes as a PPL,CPL, instructor, homebuilder and mechanic, I see that almost all of those accidents are a result either of ignorance (not enough training for the environment involved) or stupidity (ignoring the training received). Some pilots make unwise or downright stupid decisions and crash, and then they or their estate sues everyone in sight. The sued are forced to add more requirements and insurance and rules and so on, and costs go way up. Common sense is long gone; we won't accept responsibility for the risks we take and point the finger at everyone else. And the rest of us end up paying more and drowning in paperwork.

You wouldn't believe how some folks are dressed to go flying in the winter. Or in the mountains anytime. Completely unprepared, and when weather or something else forces them down or they lose control in the cloud and crash, they often survive only to die of hypothermia. Many of them get no mountain flight training and are taken by surprise by the turbulence or rapid changes in weather. Whose fault it this?

Unforeseen mechanical failure is really rare, and even then many accidents are survivable if the forced landing is carried out properly.

The FBO who has all those restrictions on the use of his airplanes didn't make those rules arbitrarily. His insurance company did, and he may have added some after seeing other FBOs sued into oblivion by idiots who took stupid chances and broke their airplanes. Can't blame him; what would YOU do in his situation?

And we as pilots sometimes see ourselves as superior to the average non-pilot that is interested in aviation,, and our snobbery can turn them away. We're often rather unwelcoming.

Dan

 

[Everskyward]

We can beef about the endless rules, but those rules are imposed by regulators in response to demands from the public every time there's another accident.

I wasn't questioning the necessity of rules, although I personally think some of them are way overboard (flight time = compensation is one of them). I just think the preponderance of rules can be a turn-off to someone pursuing a hobby, particularly young people pursuing a hobby. You could make the argument that you don't want people who are disdainful of rules in the same sky with you but that is another issue.

 

[John Baker]

I'm a yuuuut. What's a yuuuut? A yuuuut, ya know?

Honestly I try my best to share my passion with friends my age and always offer to take them flying whenever they want. It's a lot of fun and I love to see how they react behind the controls. I guess I'm not the typical teenager. I'm not even pregnant in case you were wondering (you mentioned it is now an epidemic).

I think this kid hit the nail on the head, more kids are sexually active today than they were in the 1950s & 60s. Like what would a kid rather do, learn to fly or get laid? As the original poster said, there are many more interests available to kids today than when we were kids, instant communications being probably the biggest of them all.

Then there is the giant brick wall that looms between everyone and their ticket.....money. Very few adults can afford to take flying lessons, much less pay for their kids to do it. There are many more less expensive attractions to fascinate their little minds than flying.

Think about it, at one time you could purchase a used Cub for a few hundred dollars. Any mechanic could work on them. A kid could take flying lessons by sweeping hangers and washing airplanes.

Flying is no longer the promising career it once was and has pretty much been reduced to an expensive pastime for the few who can afford it.

Why on earth should a re-built, air cooled four banger cost 15-20 thousand dollars? I just spent $320.00 to have a rocker switch for my landing light replaced in my panel.

Just about every brand new light sport aircraft exceeds a hundred thousand dollars if you want to purchase one. Most people who own their own are driving thirty year old airplanes. How appealing is that to the very few people who are thinking about taking up flying?

Aviation as an industry, is pricing itself into oblivion.

Prices are continuing to climb for even the most basic things related to aviation. Get kids to take up flying? How about trying to get anyone to take up flying.

John

 

[Dan Thomas]

Just about every brand new light sport aircraft exceeds a hundred thousand dollars if you want to purchase one. Most people who own their own are driving thirty year old airplanes. How appealing is that to the very few people who are thinking about taking up flying?

Aviation as an industry, is pricing itself into oblivion.

Prices are continuing to climb for even the most basic things related to aviation. Get kids to take up flying? How about trying to get anyone to take up flying.

John

When I learned to fly in 1973 a 172 cost me $19 an hour. For me, it was a day's pay. A 172 now costs somewhat more than a day's pay for an hour's flight for the average young buck, but the increase isn't that large a factor.

The cost of other goods, except maybe automobiles, has dropped enormously. A nice Wal-Mart shirt takes me 20 or 30 minutes to earn. It used to cost my Dad several hours work to earn a shirt. Food costs less once inflation is factored in. A bicycle costs a tenth of what it would now if CCM or Huffy was still making bikes in America. Much of the drop has to do with Asian imports, of course, but we've been spoiled by the amount of stuff we can buy with a few bucks and so we figure airplanes should be cheaper, too, and maybe they will be once we can buy an airplane made by some Chinese or South Korean outfit (and not marked up by Cessna). I'd buy a Hyundai airplane any day; I have a Sonata and love it. Excellent quality, rated (by Phil Edmonston and others) as higher now than any Japanese car.

Dan