Your Mistake Rate Per Flight (Including Pre-Flight)

How many mistakes do you make (average) per flight including pre-flight?

  • 0 - None (Seriously, I am that good)

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • 1 - Almost perfect

    Votes: 9 15.0%

  • 2 - Seems like I always make a couple

    Votes: 40 66.7%

  • 3 - Wow they add up quick

    Votes: 4 6.7%

  • 4 - Even more than I thought

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • 5 - Should I be worried

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6+ I've got some thinking to do

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Total voters
    60
DanWilkins said:
14 props, check for water, fuel level, oil level, make sure everything is there and working, jacket and water bottle make up my check list. Once every 8 or 10 fresh starts I might forget something like a drink or a jacket. Very rarely the others.

I post flight my plane while cleaning bugs. Really, just the 14 props and condensation are the critical things in preflight.
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@DanWilkins - if you don't mind, what kind of plane and how many years have you been flying?
 
For that radio thing I try to never turn a radio ALL the way down. Down enough to comprehend the ATIS over the chatter is usually fine while still just audible. That way I can hear something... if I forget it.

And yeah, that’s from having the “Why aren’t they answering me?” moment. Experience. :)
 
Sinistar said:
I guess I would count the frequency flip flub as a mistake. Does that actually happen more than once during a flight?
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Possibly, but the point was “that level of mistake”, not necessarily that exact mistake.
 
I assume 100% mistake rate.
That way I don't have to pay any attention to what I'm doing, because I'm doing it wrong anyway.
When I survive the flight, it's obviously a miracle, which is always a good thing for one of my professions.
Thanks, Boss.
 
Having two radios can trip you up sometimes. Recently I was in a flight of two to Hemet, and my buddy was in the lead plane making radio calls...or so I thought. Imagine my surprise when he pulled out on the runway at Hemet without making a call! I thought he had a lost comm, so I started making radio calls for the both of us in trail position, all the way back to our home airport. Turns out he was transmitting on the wrong frequency but receiving on the correct frequency. He was wondering why I was making all those "redundant" calls!!

I tend to make more mistakes when flying into an unfamiliar airport; there's just a higher workload/more apprehension in unfamiliar surroundings.
 
Lindberg said:
I try to always fly two mistakes high.
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That's our mantra for flying rc planes too.

And for the superstitious, you should never utter the words "I think I'll go up for one last flight." :eek:
 
I was landing at KSQL this weekend. First time ever to that airport (flying a Comanche) and was keenly aware of the runway being much shorter than my home field.

Mis judged the height, not to mention turbulence on short final and bounced it once. Could have saved it with additional power, etc, but elected to go around as the “runway overrun” NTSB report was already writing itself in my head. I went around. Not a huge deal, but I kinda felt like an idiot.

In retrospect, much safer thing to do.

It was still rather embarrassing though.
 
Define ‘mistake’ please. I’m still here...
 
Sinistar said:
Maybe this will help explain:

About to fly to a Delta and 13miles out.
  1. I've got the tower on COM1...and crap is it busy
  2. I want to listen to ATIS on COM2..but can't hear anything over COM1 so I turn down COM1 :cool:
  3. I punch the audio panel button for COM2 and listen to ATIS twice, especially to get the active runways. Since they have parallels I listen closely
  4. Got it, punch the audio panel knob back out for COM2 since done with ATIS
  5. I'm good to call in now right at about 11nm out.
  6. The tower freq is now quiet...sweet...I make the full call now :cool:
  7. .....very long silence....
  8. Make the full call again.....very long silence :oops:
  9. Okay, what the hell happened to the tower :eek:
  10. Maybe my radios don't work :(
  11. Oh duh, I turned down the volume....which I don't really do that often...
  12. Turn up the volume: "...ssna 12Q, hearing you loud and clear check your volume" :(

...so for you it takes less than a second. For my case, a few bad assumptions and it might be 30 seconds for for me...until I've experienced it a time or two and re-enforced it.

I could have disabled COM1 with the audio panel and maybe been less likely to make the mistake. I bet I stepped all over everyone's **** too!
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You got ADS-B In yet? I copy down the METAR, listen to ATIS once for stuff not in the METAR, a second time for differences between METAR and ATIS (usually just wind direction because magnetic vs true) and maybe a third time to verify everything. Cuts down on workload quite a bit. Perhaps you can get in the habit of keeping your finger on the volume knob when doing the second or third pass.

Also, do your COMs have Rx/Tx lights? Helps to get in the habit of glancing at them when making radio calls. It's helped me let go of the PTT plenty of times before getting to my N-number.
 
asicer said:
You got ADS-B In yet? I copy down the METAR, listen to ATIS once for stuff not in the METAR, a second time for differences between METAR and ATIS (usually just wind direction because magnetic vs true) and maybe a third time to verify everything. Cuts down on workload quite a bit. Perhaps you can get in the habit of keeping your finger on the volume knob when doing the second or third pass.
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Ummm, not being too critical here, but you know you can just listen to the ATIS once, copy it down, and read it once, and you're good to go, right? No need to read it on a screen in partial format after multiple button presses to get to it, then listening to it three times.

Unless you catch it at the top of the hour change, it's kinda... repetitive?

We need to teach you ATIS copying short-hand, methinks... unless there's a ten mile long list of taxiway closures or similar, it's a one-pass writing thing, and done...

Without a stylus it doesn't work as well on a tablet, but both FF and GP have pre-made ATIS copying screens that work even with a finger, it'll just look "chicken-scratchy"... fastest is still a pencil and a notepad... old-school...
 
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denverpilot said:
Ummm, not being too critical here, but you know you can just listen to the ATIS once, copy it down, and read it once, and you're good to go, right? No need to read it on a screen in partial format after multiple button presses to get to it, then listening to it three times.
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Easy peasy when the approach/center frequency is quiet. A little harder when you're trying to simultaneously listen for your tail number during a push. But yeah, as is typical my typing is probably overcomplicating what really happens in practice.
 
I met a retired Alaska pilot, who used to sit out at Kenmore Air Harbor............chewing on a cigar and giving out quite good advice.

He had over 30,000 hours.........and logged every flight with a note of what went wrong on that flight. He NEVER had a flight without the note.
 
dans2992 said:
I was landing at KSQL this weekend. First time ever to that airport (flying a Comanche) and was keenly aware of the runway being much shorter than my home field.

Mis judged the height, not to mention turbulence on short final and bounced it once. Could have saved it with additional power, etc, but elected to go around as the “runway overrun” NTSB report was already writing itself in my head. I went around. Not a huge deal, but I kinda felt like an idiot.

In retrospect, much safer thing to do.

It was still rather embarrassing though.
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Going around is not a mistake, however!
 
kgruber said:
I met a retired Alaska pilot, who used to sit out at Kenmore Air Harbor............chewing on a cigar and giving out quite good advice.

He had over 30,000 hours.........and logged every flight with a note of what went wrong on that flight. He NEVER had a flight without the note.
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And I would bet if everyone one of us was completely honest, we wouldn't either. It is an interesting way to flip the subject, and to learn from your mistakes instead of forgetting them.

I know one that I did years ago that resulted a "lost comm" scenario. Moved up to a newer model 172 that has all those extra buttons on the yoke. Not long after establishing flight following, approach could not hear my responses. I could hear them fine but seemed to be having a issue transmitting. Took quite a few tries before I quit using the A/P Disconnect switch for a PTT. D'oh!
 
denverpilot said:
And never call anyone after a flight and say you’re “down”. LOL.
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And when the plane has a mechanical, make sure the CSR girl doesn't tell the passengers that "the plane went down". Instead remind her to say the plane went in the shop for unexpected mechanical issues...... that really caused a few hours of confusion, I tell ya' what....:lol::lol::lol:
 
Sinistar said:
I once took off with carb heat on...good example of a mistake. I once grabbed the mixture on downwind thinking it was carb heat and just as I started to pull it, caught myself...mistake. Took off with a window open...mistake. I often do the entire pre-flight, then run the checklist and usually miss the baggage door locked as I "assumed" it was locked from the last time I put the plane away. For radios the big one is turning the volume down on COM1 to hear ATIS on COM2, then like a dipstick I call the tower, wonder why no one is working and then...volume knob.

I can reverse it too. A guy was about to take off upwind at our local airport. I saw that plane as I was doing downwind. Asked him his intentions, told him the wind and my intended runway. He didn't say much but said he'd wait for me. Then another plane came in and told him the same thing. Then he took off without telling anyone. I'd call that a mistake on his part.
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Thanks, I am so glad that I am not the only one. You actually made me feel better. Thanks
 
Sinistar said:
I once grabbed the mixture on downwind thinking it was carb heat and just as I started to pull it, caught myself...mistake.
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Been there and can beat that. I pulled the mixture knob without looking and verifying (I was new to the particular model). When the engine did what you would expect, I automatically undid what I just did and the engine came back to life. Confused, I repeated my mistake with similar effect. Only then did I look at what my hand was doing. Muscle memory can be hard to overcome I guess. Fortunately I could have easily made the runway if the engine had not come back either time I shut it down.
 
Mistakes are absolutely normal for us humans. That's what makes us human afterall. We are not robots with perfect memory.
Hence the invention of checklists.
Use them or lose them.
If your memory is perfect, you are a lucky duck. If you are like myself, a checklist helps you catch a forgotten item.

My biggest gripe is that I do not have a post-flight securing checklist. I sometimes forget one of the small things. Not fun. A checklist would solve this. I need to make one. Maybe I'll do it now, slow day at the office.
 
midwestpa24 said:
And I would bet if everyone one of us was completely honest, we wouldn't either. It is an interesting way to flip the subject, and to learn from your mistakes instead of forgetting them.

I know one that I did years ago that resulted a "lost comm" scenario. Moved up to a newer model 172 that has all those extra buttons on the yoke. Not long after establishing flight following, approach could not hear my responses. I could hear them fine but seemed to be having a issue transmitting. Took quite a few tries before I quit using the A/P Disconnect switch for a PTT. D'oh!
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I did that on my check out in the clubs C-172 R. Tried twice and then the instructor said it was the A/P disconnect. :p
 
jsstevens said:
I did that on my check out in the clubs C-172 R. Tried twice and then the instructor said it was the A/P disconnect. :p
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Press A/P disconnect. "Podunk ground, Cessna 12355..." "Wrong button" "Oh yeah, duh." Press CWS. "Podunk ground, Cessna 12345..." Facepalm.
 
midwestpa24 said:
... approach could not hear my responses. I could hear them fine but seemed to be having a issue transmitting. Took quite a few tries before I quit using the A/P Disconnect switch for a PTT. D'oh!
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FWIW, most audio systems in most airplanes generate a side-tone which allows you to hear your own voice when transmitting. It is usually different from regular intercom sound. So you can tell by listening whether you are transmitting or not. My brain is already well-trained and can tell subconsciously, I know immediately something is wrong when I try to transmit but don't hear the side-tone. It is a great feature, perfect to catch TX trouble. Including a stuck mike.

For the record, I never ever made a single radio mistake, never called on the wrong frequency, never transmitted with the volume down, never transmitted over ATIS (with both COMs active), never did anything stupid on the radio. Never ever. Especially not on a checkride. :D :D :D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)
 
asicer said:
You got ADS-B In yet? I copy down the METAR, listen to ATIS once for stuff not in the METAR, a second time for differences between METAR and ATIS (usually just wind direction because magnetic vs true) and maybe a third time to verify everything. Cuts down on workload quite a bit. Perhaps you can get in the habit of keeping your finger on the volume knob when doing the second or third pass.

Also, do your COMs have Rx/Tx lights? Helps to get in the habit of glancing at them when making radio calls. It's helped me let go of the PTT plenty of times before getting to my N-number.
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I do have ADS-B In and I do look at METAR's but not when I'm about 12-15nm out. I prefer to be listening to ATIS while also watching vigilantly for other aircraft because I haven't contacted Tower yet so they can't help me with nearby traffic.

I like your volume knob idea and Nate's idea of not turning it down too much.
 
kgruber said:
I met a retired Alaska pilot, who used to sit out at Kenmore Air Harbor............chewing on a cigar and giving out quite good advice.

He had over 30,000 hours.........and logged every flight with a note of what went wrong on that flight. He NEVER had a flight without the note.
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Wow. While looking at the poll and reading the responses it makes me wonder if this would be a good idea. The mistakes are obvious and I bet everyone still remembers them right after the flight so they could be written down.

Maybe a new EFB app or feature here. After landing, select mistakes from a large list and they get tracked just like the EFB tracks miles flown, fastest speed, total hours, etc. I know for sure I would start looking at the list if it was easy to keep up to date.

ForeFlight......Garmin......anyone?
 
Sinistar said:
@DanWilkins - if you don't mind, what kind of plane and how many years have you been flying?
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I fly a UPF-7. I've got about 900 hours mostly in the past 5 years. I learned to fly as a kid and then took a 38 year break. Now I am back at it.
 
Thanks @DanWilkins , I envy your experience and wish I could have learned at a much younger age!
 
Lindberg said:
An instructor once told me to never turn the radio volume down to silence it; turn it off. When you look at it, it will be obvious that its off.
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Some of them I wouldn’t trust the poor overworked switch would ever come back on. :)
 
Interesting discussion on Sunday. A retired airline pilot/CFII and I were talking at the airport. He gives presentations and often zeroes in on decisions - specifically bad decisions vs mistakes. So I brought up this thread. He smiled and said years ago when they were hiring pilots they would ask a candidate if they make mistakes. If they said "nope, none" they would often bypass that person and keep looking. I suppose things are different now, but I thought it was a interesting question to ask back in the day when things were probably a lot more simple and direct.
 
Sinistar said:
Interesting discussion on Sunday. A retired airline pilot/CFII and I were talking at the airport. He gives presentations and often zeroes in on decisions - specifically bad decisions vs mistakes. So I brought up this thread. He smiled and said years ago when they were hiring pilots they would ask a candidate if they make mistakes. If they said "nope, none" they would often bypass that person and keep looking. I suppose things are different now, but I thought it was a interesting question to ask back in the day when things were probably a lot more simple and direct.
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Heck that’s my favorite hiring question in IT.

“Describe your biggest mistake and how you dealt with it.”
 
denverpilot said:
Heck that’s my favorite hiring question in IT.

“Describe your biggest mistake and how you dealt with it.”
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That's a great one. In software interviews I like to ask what's the worst bug you ever had to find and fix and how did you go about it? It does two things: Tells me a lot about their approach to problem solving and puts people who might be nervous at ease because now we're swapping war stories. I think I'll add this to the mix.
 
jsstevens said:
That's a great one. In software interviews I like to ask what's the worst bug you ever had to find and fix and how did you go about it? It does two things: Tells me a lot about their approach to problem solving and puts people who might be nervous at ease because now we're swapping war stories. I think I'll add this to the mix.
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Yeah it’s interesting. Also leave it open ended like that because you can say you were asking about WORK stuff and stay out of legal trouble, but all sorts of people will notably start describing personal life train wrecks. Hahah. Kinda shows they’re not really thinking about the interview.

“Okay, before you go too far there, I was really asking about in your professional life.”

:) :) :)

If they’re nervous about answering I just share that I hung up on 40,000 phone calls simultaneously one day, and AT&T wasn’t super pleased with me that day. Of course for AT&T that didn’t even hit “small outage” status at the NOC, but it went in some upper middle management report to somebody somewhere the next day, I heard. :)
 
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