Your Mistake Rate Per Flight (Including Pre-Flight)

How many mistakes do you make (average) per flight including pre-flight?

  • 0 - None (Seriously, I am that good)

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • 1 - Almost perfect

    Votes: 9 15.0%

  • 2 - Seems like I always make a couple

    Votes: 40 66.7%

  • 3 - Wow they add up quick

    Votes: 4 6.7%

  • 4 - Even more than I thought

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • 5 - Should I be worried

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6+ I've got some thinking to do

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Total voters
    60
Sinistar

Sinistar

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Brad
I have been thinking about this, it seems like almost each pre-flight and/or flight I make one or two small mistakes. Of course these mistakes are not done purposely. And these mistakes even happen after using checklists, etc. For a 2hr flight yesterday I missed 3 items:

  • Pre-flight: Baggage door locked (checklist caught it)
  • Radio: Tower frequency wrong (wrote it down wrong before the flight, Center caught it :()
  • Taxi: Missed a turn to onto a runway (tower caught it, chuckle for both of us).

So that has me wondering - how many mistakes (average) do pilots make per flight (including pre-flight). You'll have to be the judge as to what counts. But I say count it if its anything you got wrong. If you have one or two common areas, please add them to the thread perhaps there is a interesting consensus
 
I have a "three strikes" rule that I shamelessly stole from @denverpilot

3 goofs and I either call it a day or go into serious reset mode.

After 2, I usually clean things up quite radically out of fear of scrubbing the flight.
 
EdFred said:
Define mistake.
Click to expand...

Was going to say the same thing.

I stood there once and thought, “I should clean that windshield before I go” and didn’t, and paid for it flying westbound in the afternoon, but not sure it rises to the level of “mistake”.

If I had hit someone, maybe then. Ha.
 
EdFred said:
Define mistake.
Click to expand...
anything you did wrong, missed, etc. For example you missed an item on a checklist, forgot to turn up a radio volume and couldn't hear others, wrong frequency, got lost, wrong vor frequency, etc. In other words there was a correct thing to do and you made a mistake.
 
I wouldn't count the windshield example as a mistake - but your call.
 
I found the best way to not miss an item on the checklist is to not have a checklist. So I average less than 1 mistake per flight. But the ones I have made...did you know you'll vent about 13gallons of fuel in the trip around the pattern in the Comanche?
 
I also have the 3-strike rule, and used it a couple of times 20some years ago. Some days your head's just not in the game, and there's no shame in admitting it.
 
As far as a ‘mistake’, not many, but I do tend to think how I could’ve handled various situations better or done things differently on my post flight debrief.
 
+1 for the three strikes during pre-flight/pre-takeoff rule.
 
I wouldn't count using a checklist to remember an action item as a mistake--that's what checklists are for. It would have been a mistake if you'd used the checklist and still left the door unlocked.


asicer said:
I have a "three strikes" rule that I shamelessly stole from @denverpilot

3 goofs and I either call it a day or go into serious reset mode.

After 2, I usually clean things up quite radically out of fear of scrubbing the flight.
Click to expand...

I don't have a hard-and-fast rule, but my policy is similar. If I'm making a few mistakes, no matter how small, I stop and reset. It's usually caused by a lack of focus, so walking away for a minute and returning does the trick for me. When I'm with others, sometimes I have to go into "Captain mode" and gently get everyone to be quiet and still while I get in my rhythm. It's one of the things I like about being in a club that operates out of Million Air. "You guys enjoy a drink and a cookie while I go do my preflight."
 
I was gonna vote none, but I'm sure I have one or two little mistakes once in awhile, if not on each flight. Hopefully, and I usually do, I catch them and break that "chain". As I instruct, I'm big on checklists and try to practice what I preach.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
Does punching in the wrong CTAF and making calls for 5 miles out, downwind, base, and final all on the wrong frequency count as 1 mistake? Or 4?
Click to expand...

Gawd I did that about a month ago! Flying with a student and did T&Gs at another up towered airport, and when we returned to home field I didn't change to our freq. Had it in standby though. Figured it out after we landed and parked. Another instructor was in the pattern so I explained and apologized for what we (student & me) had done, as I was responsible for it.
 
Based on the discussion here I voted 1. There are things I can do better every flight, but not to this level.

For example, Saturday I did some landing practice (first time up in nearly 3 months). First landing was 1) not exactly on centerline, 2) I had to use throttle to stay on glide path. I don't call those mistakes in this category. So by these definitions, I had 0 on Saturday.

Now let me tell you about the time I went and killed the engine three times in a row when starting by using the mixture knob instead of the throttle. I actually stopped and sat in the plane collecting my thoughts and deciding whether to fly that day if I made a basic mistake like that.

John
 
Depends on how picky you want to go defining mistake. Double clutch the frequency flip and check in with the controller that just handed me off?? Dozens.

Hard landing that bends the gear?? Never.
 
Kritchlow said:
Depends on how picky you want to go defining mistake. Double clutch the frequency flip and check in with the controller that just handed me off?? Dozens.
Click to expand...

Oh I *hate* it when I do that... LOL... because the tone of voice is always like... "Really azzhat?" LOL...
 
Probably a few a flight. Even at my airline we make around 3 errors per flight according to an audit that was completed.
 
Using a checklist to reduce errors is not a mistake.
Fumbling a frequency I get as a mistake.

But what else would you define as a mistake, and more importantly how do you know?

Tim
 
denverpilot said:
Oh I *hate* it when I do that... LOL... because the tone of voice is always like... "Really azzhat?" LOL...
Click to expand...

A worse example -- I was near ABQ, and one of the airline guys comes on and does his entire "ladies and gentlemen, we've begun our descent into Albuquerque; please place your seat backs [...]".... on the center frequency. There was mirth all around, and the guy who did it did sound appropriately embarrassed. :)
 
Flying is all about making mistakes. You acknowledge your mistake and correct it. DO NOT make any fatal mistakes!
 
Every time that I land with fuel to spare and realize that I could have flown longer, I think "damn what a dumbass mistake".

Does that count?

If that doesn't count, then I'll go with the times that I flew low wings.

:D
 
tspear said:
Using a checklist to reduce errors is not a mistake.
Fumbling a frequency I get as a mistake.

But what else would you define as a mistake, and more importantly how do you know?

Tim
Click to expand...
I once took off with carb heat on...good example of a mistake. I once grabbed the mixture on downwind thinking it was carb heat and just as I started to pull it, caught myself...mistake. Took off with a window open...mistake. I often do the entire pre-flight, then run the checklist and usually miss the baggage door locked as I "assumed" it was locked from the last time I put the plane away. For radios the big one is turning the volume down on COM1 to hear ATIS on COM2, then like a dipstick I call the tower, wonder why no one is working and then...volume knob.

I can reverse it too. A guy was about to take off upwind at our local airport. I saw that plane as I was doing downwind. Asked him his intentions, told him the wind and my intended runway. He didn't say much but said he'd wait for me. Then another plane came in and told him the same thing. Then he took off without telling anyone. I'd call that a mistake on his part.
 
asicer said:
I have a "three strikes" rule that I shamelessly stole from @denverpilot

3 goofs and I either call it a day or go into serious reset mode.

After 2, I usually clean things up quite radically out of fear of scrubbing the flight.
Click to expand...
I like the 3 strikes rule and I think had all this happened before taking off I might have shut down. But two of my mistakes were during flight and the last one was not at my home base.
 
jordane93 said:
Probably a few a flight. Even at my airline we make around 3 errors per flight according to an audit that was completed.
Click to expand...
Wow. I would think even more given the complexity and number of people involved. Then again, I wondered if was always around zero for the airlines.

Also weird is that I had a feeling the average might be around 2-4. Unfortunately, "mistake" for this poll will always be subjective without writing another FAR and a legal agreement :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Depends on how picky you want to go defining mistake. Double clutch the frequency flip and check in with the controller that just handed me off?? Dozens.
Click to expand...

Happened to me not long ago. I was approaching my home drone and Memphis center told me Freq change approved. I switched over to CTAF and gave my position report. Dude comes right back and said that sounded good but you're still on Memphis center. sigh....haha
 
Kansas Flyer said:
Does punching in the wrong CTAF and making calls for 5 miles out, downwind, base, and final all on the wrong frequency count as 1 mistake? Or 4?
Click to expand...

jsstevens said:
Based on the discussion here I voted 1. There are things I can do better every flight, but not to this level.

For example, Saturday I did some landing practice (first time up in nearly 3 months). First landing was 1) not exactly on centerline, 2) I had to use throttle to stay on glide path. I don't call those mistakes in this category. So by these definitions, I had 0 on Saturday.

Now let me tell you about the time I went and killed the engine three times in a row when starting by using the mixture knob instead of the throttle. I actually stopped and sat in the plane collecting my thoughts and deciding whether to fly that day if I made a basic mistake like that.

John
Click to expand...
Isn't it weird, once the mind is made up how many times we can make the same mistake before the pause/reset. The radio volume one still gets me. In my mind the volume just can't be the issue. Actually, on my condensed checklist on the back is a loss of comms checklist. Only a few items in that list. Item#1 - Volume, followed audio panel selection and frequency. Should be second nature...but not enough repetitions yet I suppose.
 
Kritchlow said:
Depends on how picky you want to go defining mistake. Double clutch the frequency flip and check in with the controller that just handed me off?? Dozens.

Hard landing that bends the gear?? Never.
Click to expand...
I guess I would count the frequency flip flub as a mistake. Does that actually happen more than once during a flight?
 
I guess it depends on how anal you want to get about it. As long as I catch it before it has the opportunity to be a real problem... like not having the right frequency in standby or forgetting to set the DG before taxiing out or something like that it doesn't count.

I mess up something almost every time and catch it before taxiing onto the runway almost every time. Every now and then something gets missed...it happens. Really if you think about it a lot of stuff we do is redundant, I even have redundant items in different parts of my checklist. There's a reason for that- this is all complicated business and we're human beings. We miss stuff... and that's also a reason not to be complacent and skip those extra steps- they'll force you to notice the step you missed 12 steps back.
 
The longer the flight I’m about to take,and if I have a passenger,the lessmistakes I make.Keep reminding myself not to get complacent.
 
Sinistar said:
The radio volume one still gets me. In my mind the volume just can't be the issue. Actually, on my condensed checklist on the back is a loss of comms checklist. Only a few items in that list. Item#1 - Volume, followed audio panel selection and frequency. Should be second nature...but not enough repetitions yet I suppose.
Click to expand...
I’m not understanding how having the volume turned down is a mistake... grab the knob and turn it up. Takes less than a second to correct and most of the time has to be adjusted before and during flight anyway.
 
mscard88 said:
I was gonna vote none, but I'm sure I have one or two little mistakes once in awhile, if not on each flight. Hopefully, and I usually do, I catch them and break that "chain". As I instruct, I'm big on checklists and try to practice what I preach.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your honesty here. I always figured instructors make so little mistakes because they have done this so much and are teaching which forces the standard to be elevated. Yet it seems like a "perfect" flight is not the norm. This flying thing is complex.
 
14 props, check for water, fuel level, oil level, make sure everything is there and working, jacket and water bottle make up my check list. Once every 8 or 10 fresh starts I might forget something like a drink or a jacket. Very rarely the others.

I post flight my plane while cleaning bugs. Really, just the 14 props and condensation are the critical things in preflight.
 
Sinistar said:
I appreciate your honesty here. I always figured instructors make so little mistakes because they have done this so much and are teaching which forces the standard to be elevated. Yet it seems like a "perfect" flight is not the norm. This flying thing is complex.
Click to expand...

I don't even think there's ever been such a thing as a perfect CHECKRIDE, let alone, flight... think about that one for a minute... :)

I've talked to both Instructors and DPEs who get a LITTLE nervous when a pilot is "too" good... never makes any mistakes at all... because part of the teaching and evaluation process loop is seeing how a pilot handles mistakes and adversity, both self-induced and externally-induced.

Put it like this... say we're doing an airplane checkout and I see someone make beautiful landings so consistently on a calm day that I kinda "have to sign them off", whereas on another gusty day I see someone make the decision quickly and immediately to do a go-around when things start to get out of hand... and then comes back around, sets up well, plants the upwind wheel in the gusty crosswind, maybe skips a tiny bit on that wheel and it's not perfect, but they KNEW when it was out of hand, and they KNEW how to deal with it.

I know more about pilot number two, than I know about pilot number one... both are probably getting signed off on their respective days... but my level of "that pilot will do the right thing when the SHTF" is higher for the second pilot.

Not the first pilot's "fault" they're either just good, or the weather is "too benign", at all... just sayin' there's levels of this stuff...

And it's not just sitting in the right seat you'll eventually notice this... I remember distinctly a time when an unexpected gust (wind kinda went from steady boring crosswind to HOLY CRAP crosswind during a few laps around the pattern) in someone else's airplane, where a gust caught the upwind wing and let it drop precipitously far about 10' in the air... I smoothly but VERY quickly shoved the throttle in, simultaneously announcing a go-around, and got the frack out of there...

At the end of that flight, the other CFI just said, "So, I guess we'll consider you checked out in the airplane... I'll put you on the list..." LOL... because he saw I wasn't going to prang the thing and knew when it was time to say "not landing... this just got stupid..." :)
 
Ryanb said:
I’m not understanding how having the volume turned down is a mistake... grab the knob and turn it up. Takes less than a second to correct and most of the time has to be adjusted before and during flight anyway.
Click to expand...
Maybe this will help explain:

About to fly to a Delta and 13miles out.
  1. I've got the tower on COM1...and crap is it busy
  2. I want to listen to ATIS on COM2..but can't hear anything over COM1 so I turn down COM1 :cool:
  3. I punch the audio panel button for COM2 and listen to ATIS twice, especially to get the active runways. Since they have parallels I listen closely
  4. Got it, punch the audio panel knob back out for COM2 since done with ATIS
  5. I'm good to call in now right at about 11nm out.
  6. The tower freq is now quiet...sweet...I make the full call now :cool:
  7. .....very long silence....
  8. Make the full call again.....very long silence :oops:
  9. Okay, what the hell happened to the tower :eek:
  10. Maybe my radios don't work :(
  11. Oh duh, I turned down the volume....which I don't really do that often...
  12. Turn up the volume: "...ssna 12Q, hearing you loud and clear check your volume" :(

...so for you it takes less than a second. For my case, a few bad assumptions and it might be 30 seconds for for me...until I've experienced it a time or two and re-enforced it.

I could have disabled COM1 with the audio panel and maybe been less likely to make the mistake. I bet I stepped all over everyone's **** too!
 
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