Your Aviation Education

[Dave Krall CFII]

If you ever feel your CFI is taking too many hours with your flight training, consider the possible positive benefits of student halitosis...

I wish my original CFI, long ago, had not fallen asleep while I was under the hood.

Oh, and I wish he would have taken me up on my many offers of mints, gum, etc. Whew, what breath.

 

[jkaduk]

It is NOT! Age is a state of mind. (I'm 54, BTW, with intentions of being young until the day I keel over.) :cheerio:



Judy

Tell that to my achy joints and my uncooperative eyeballs.

 

[Everskyward]

I remember my first time seeing a cloud come at me and how you had to fight the desire to duck or brace yourself for the impact, and how stupid I felt for having that thought.

This it stupid?? You mean you don't cover your eyes and shout POW! when you hit a cloud?

I've always thought my CFI for my private did a pretty thorough job considering that I was quite young (of course I didn't think so at the time) with absolutely no aviation background.

I learned to fly in the dark ages before the internet. What I've noticed and what I think is helpful is sites like this one. When I was learning I didn't know any other pilots, besides my instructor, and I did self-study rather than going to a ground school. Learning in a vacuum may work to some extent, but I think it's very helpful to hear other people's questions and to debate the answers.

 

[poadeleted3]

Chip,

What planet was this training given on ? How did you and all the other flight students possibly get by and new ones continue to get by the FAA ground testing and FAA flight check without using radio or VOR ???

Only radio calls I had to make for the most part during training were in the pattern. I had a couple flights to towered airports to do touch and goes in Charleston, WV but that didn't amount to much because we rarely went when busy, two different ones during my night flights, and one to get my landings at a controlled field. Other than that, very little time talking to ATC. The airport I finished at is under a Class B shelf, but the first time I ever talked to Philly Approach was on my solo long cross country when I asked for flight following. Got cleared into the B, but had to turn it down.

In fact, I'd never been in Class B until a couple weeks ago, when I decided I'd rather stay high and out of the thermals on our way back from WV.

Only radio work I did on my check ride was pattern calls. I would like to have had more work with ATC during my private training, I guess.

 

[Toby]

I'm jumping in late to this great thread. My CFI thoroughly prepared me for the flying I'm doing today. We had a tremendous amount of crosswind pattern practice, which at the time frustrated me to tears. Living next door to the whole alphabet of airspace classes meant I had plenty of practice landing in class C, working with towers, and working with the radio. I was so afraid of the radio at the time that I wanted to quit!

He was meticulous and thorough with the care and preflighting of his airplane, which rubbed off on me. He taught me courtesy, and the importance of thanking controllers and working well with them. He emphasized looking out the window, pilotage, and navigation. We had many low vis hazy lazy days, being on Long Island, which we flew in. We did several extra hours under the hood beyond what was required (probably because I wasn't so good at that at first).

We'd be preflighting or flying or talking in the diner, and he'd quiz me on the FARs. (Now I have to reread them.....they slip away....) He also taught me how to use the GPS, which at the time I got some flack for on the board! He was very good with the ground school part, too. I'd go in with dozens of questions, and he'd answer patiently, or if he didn't know the answer at the time, he'd call me during the week to talk about it.

The only thing, in retrospect, that I wish I'd had more of was mechanical knowledge. He did give me some, to the best of his ability. But he's not a mechanic himself, and I would like to know a lot more about how the engine works and how my operation of the a/c affects it, and also how to recognize, troubleshoot, and deal with any problems that might occur. This I'm catching up on now.

 

[Len Lanetti]

My primary training took a very long time; 13 years. It was the usual problems of

Yeah...finally I hear about someone who took longer than my 9 years.

RE - Things That Should Be Taught ---how about the stuff that regularly gets us killed.

Spin recovery training. Trouble is you probably have to go to an aerobatic instructor to get it as the last few generations of instructors haven't really done them and probably wouldn't do them with a student unless their life depended on it.

Recognigtion of worsening weather conditions while in flight. Here is how you tell that the clouds ahead of you are at your level when looking out the window.

Here is what it is like to fly in marginal VFR and this is how you accidently fly into a cloud. Sure GPS will let you navigate at 1,000 feet AGL but it doesn't help you see towers in 3 miles in haze.

Realistic flight planning for flights longer than 50 miles...sure there is a requirement to do a long cross country but usually it is a triangular course where the student is typically less than 100 miles from home...usually done on a day when the weather is just about perfect. No chance of bumping into the backside of a cold front or running into other changine weather conditions. No real lesson regarding stretching fuel into an increasing head wind.

Better understanding of systems in more demanding aircraft...how many folks got the typical one hour of dual when the moved up from their training aircraft to the next level. Sure it flys the same but what are the oddities of the fuel system, whats the difference between a load meter and an amp meter, what is the procedure for using the external power receptical, what is different about the door latches and cowl latches, what is a dme or adf, what is a remote dme, how does the audio panel work, the autopilot, the GPS?

Len

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Yeah...finally I hear about someone who took longer than my 9 years.

RE - Things That Should Be Taught ---how about the stuff that regularly gets us killed.

Spin recovery training. Trouble is you probably have to go to an aerobatic instructor to get it as the last few generations of instructors haven't really done them and probably wouldn't do them with a student unless their life depended on it.

Recognigtion of worsening weather conditions while in flight. Here is how you tell that the clouds ahead of you are at your level when looking out the window.

Here is what it is like to fly in marginal VFR and this is how you accidently fly into a cloud. Sure GPS will let you navigate at 1,000 feet AGL but it doesn't help you see towers in 3 miles in haze.

Realistic flight planning for flights longer than 50 miles...sure there is a requirement to do a long cross country but usually it is a triangular course where the student is typically less than 100 miles from home...usually done on a day when the weather is just about perfect. No chance of bumping into the backside of a cold front or running into other changine weather conditions. No real lesson regarding stretching fuel into an increasing head wind.

Better understanding of systems in more demanding aircraft...how many folks got the typical one hour of dual when the moved up from their training aircraft to the next level. Sure it flys the same but what are the oddities of the fuel system, whats the difference between a load meter and an amp meter, what is the procedure for using the external power receptical, what is different about the door latches and cowl latches, what is a dme or adf, what is a remote dme, how does the audio panel work, the autopilot, the GPS?

Len

Per the FARs and common sense, it is the PIC's responsibility to make themselves cognizant of all aspects pertaining to a given flight in a given aircraft. That includes seeking out full training in the air & on the ground.

 

[Len Lanetti]

Per the FARs and common sense, it is the PIC's responsibility to make themselves cognizant of all aspects pertaining to a given flight in a given aircraft. That includes seeking out full training in the air & on the ground.

Dave,

Agreed.

That said the average newly minted private pilot is most likely going to follow the lead of The High and The Mighty CFI.

"Hey, if the CFI thinks all I need is an hour to know how to fly this thing who am I to argue."

Len

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Dave,

Agreed.

That said the average newly minted private pilot is most likely going to follow the lead of The High and The Mighty CFI.

"Hey, if the CFI thinks all I need is an hour to know how to fly this thing who am I to argue."

Len

Yeah,

That's always the rub. How much is enough, & how much is too much because the CFI is milking the bank dry on the flight student.

Anybody with real skill knows the real bottom line. Like some pro golfer says, "The more I practice, the luckier I get"
...and that's just hitting a little ball with a club.

 

[fgcason]

Realistic flight planning for flights longer than 50 miles...sure there is a requirement to do a long cross country but usually it is a triangular course where the student is typically less than 100 miles from home...usually done on a day when the weather is just about perfect. No chance of bumping into the backside of a cold front or running into other changine weather conditions. No real lesson regarding stretching fuel into an increasing head wind.

That's one thing I liked about my training back when the long XC was 2 stops at minimum 100 miles between stops. (50 miles is still in sight of your home airport) I flew a triangle off the edge of the Earth into unknown territory at altitudes I've never been at by myself before. It was an adventure. Fuel consumption was an issue (high and lean), winds aloft, threatening frontal system over the horizon, pilotage, NDB, VOR all at once, ATC and FSS, and lots of real time what if scenario's... 6.5hrs on the hobbs and tying down afterward as the sun sets. I learned lots of important things that day about airplanes weather and myself.

The one thing I really didn't like about one of my instructors was that I wasn't getting pushed. It felt like he was dragging things out for hobbs time or unsure about how much to do next. Minimal discussion before/after didn't help much either. Instructors, PLEASE, never hold anyone back when they have something down rock solid. If a student can freeze the VOR needle in its case consistently and you can't confuse him on his position, move on to the next thing. It's boring and depressing when you're not allowed to move on especially when 4 other very proficient pilots are sitting over your shoulder wondering what the hold up is because you have the lessons down cold.

My first instructor that I didn't get to finish with since we had to leave the farm for the summer (still crying over that one) pushed me hard however within my limits. He knew the plan for the flight before I got there and he had the answers to every question I asked. Very effective pre/post flight briefings. (His 1 minute preflight x-wind landing graphical discussion with a stick and paper and plotter is hammer/chiseled into my head for all eternity and I'll never screw that up) If he was overloading me, he would slow things down until I caught up then on with the program. When he knew I could do something reliably he went straight on to the next thing in the sequence without hesitating. I recall several 3-5 minute straight and level briefing sessions to prepare for the next thing. He even knew what instrument I was looking at when I was under the hood. I didn't figure it out until years later but his get unlost and find home procedure visually and under the hood was a slightly modified variation of the NDB approach to the airport that would get me there without banging into anyone else in the process. Technically, operationally and personally he was excellent. All instructors should be required to go to whatever CFI school he went to.

 

[John J]

My Instructor was retired from the airlines when I began and he love to teach flying. He first taught me how to flyplus simulated emergencies and navigate, pilotage, dead recogning and VORs, etc and then he prepared me for the writtens and flight tests for the private and commercial. His teaching me to fly was the best part for I learned a lot more than what the requirements for the tests were.

My instrument instruction I really enjoyed for my instructors,(had two) enjoyed teaching instrument flying. Flight planning,hitting the estimated times, and good basic instrument flying skills. The approach part of the training I found came much easier than I thought.

The key that all of my instruction is to practice and practice and practice. Never stop learning

John J

 

[RobertGerace]

Eric,

I trained well past my certificates; so it's hard to say. I was well prepared for all rides except the multi (my MEI never gave me a failed engine under the hood on a miss, but the DPE did I passed the manuver, but just by the skin of my teeth. The rest of the ride was perfect...so I guess she just missed it.

For the kind of flying I do (almost always go...almost always get-there-itis...in most weather...much of the time at night) my official training didn't even touch the surface of what I needed to learn. But for CAVU hamburgers, I have to say I think it was sufficient.

Two things that I wish I could fix are:

- not being complacent...the more experience I get...and the more experience in my own airplane...the easier it is to be complacent

- related to the above, dumb little mistakes that I feel like I should be well past...but that keep rearing their ugly head

I'm not sure they can be fixed with a CFI...but if they can, sign me up.

 

[bbchien]

Eric,

I trained well past my certificates; so it's hard to say. I was well prepared for all rides except the multi (my MEI never gave me a failed engine under the hood on a miss, but the DPE did I passed the manuver, but just by the skin of my teeth. The rest of the ride was perfect...so I guess she just missed it.

Wait, let me get that straight...a CFI-MEI teaching transition never gave you an Instrument OEI on the miss? Is this NOT the standard DPE maneuver- ILS to 200, start the miss, fail the engine, go around for the VOR or NDB approach?

You need a completely different class of educational resources.

 

[Bones]

I can't thank everyone enough for the responses to this post! Thank you very much and feel free to keep them coming.

 

[RobertGerace]

Wait, let me get that straight...a CFI-MEI teaching transition never gave you an Instrument OEI on the miss? Is this NOT the standard DPE maneuver- ILS to 200, start the miss, fail the engine, go around for the VOR or NDB approach?

You need a completely different class of educational resources.

Bruce,

Don't worry...that was ATP in a 6-hour rating...just to get the rating...after which I flew 50 hours with Alex (who you met at dinner that night), and then Jerry Temple, and then SimCom.

I feel much better now...but like many have said...ATP is a rating and nothing more.

BTW, I'm on the every-six-month plan at SimCom...I'll be going back for the 2nd time some time next month.