You too, could go Down in Flames.

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
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Dave Taylor
ATTACH=full]65120[/ATTACH] plane+odessa+sf.PNG

It's a Great War term; where aircraft would become engulfed in flames then spiral in, killing all aboard.

That's what I thought of when I heard of this. A few days ago a pal said he watched a 182? burn up after landing at kodo. All ok.

However, the (unverified) story is the pilot smelled something during the flight and upon landing had a 4-alarm fire in the aft cabin. Also unverified, the airplane had a new Lithium battery 406 ELT installed recently in the location of the fire.

I am watching this closely to see if the airport scuttlebutt is true and if the FAA issues an emergency AD on this type of ELT (I have not heard either the brand or even confirmation that was the cause).

For now, I am avoiding airborne adventures with any lithium batteries aboard.

PS there was also this last year:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/aircraft-lithium-battery-fires.102016/
 
Lithium Iron (in that second post you linked) is waaaaaay different than “Lithium Ion”.

What was the model and actual chemistry of the battery in the 182? If it was given, I didn’t see it.

A LiFePo4 or similar is what I assume that second one was, and they’re only really likely to catch fire when under massive over charge or discharge. Meaning...

The dude did something to short that battery pack. Most likely anyway.

And even a boring old non-lithium anything chemistry battery is likely to start a fire when shorted out, as they LiFePo4.

Without exact chemistries the term “Lithium battery” is nearly meaningless.
 
“Move along, nothing to see”, Nate?

denverpilot said:
Lithium Iron (in that second post you linked) is waaaaaay different than “Lithium Ion”.

What was the model and actual chemistry of the battery in the 182? If it was given, I didn’t see it.

A LiFePo4 or similar is what I assume that second one was, and they’re only really likely to catch fire when under massive over charge or discharge. Meaning...

The dude did something to short that battery pack. Most likely anyway.

And even a boring old non-lithium anything chemistry battery is likely to start a fire when shorted out, as they LiFePo4.

Without exact chemistries the term “Lithium battery” is nearly meaningless.
Click to expand...
 
The important rule that I take from this and which reinforces other things I've read is that a fire on board is deadly serious and will spread much, much more quickly than you would ever think. I can remember one pilot writing about smelling smoke and making an emergency landing - he got out about 30 seconds before it flared.

If you smell smoke, it's time to get on the ground NOW, in the nearest field. Not even the next airport.
 
Thought you were referring to the '70s Soph & Ernie comedy routine by the Divine Miss M.
 
Not to overemphasize this issue, but I think any chance of an onboard fire in an airplane is way up there in my 'prefer to avoid today' list.
I just finished some training with a gent who studies a/c accidents as part of his private business; Very interesting addition to the training - learning about what he does, what accidents he's studied. (expert witness stuff mainly)
Anyway he says of the onboard fires he's studied, most people had five minutes or less to get out of the airplane or they were going to die.

Let's say you are cruising in the low teens and start to smell smoke. You waste at least a minute detecting, and deciding what or if action is required. If you begin a vigorous emergency descent and can do 5000fpm on average, you have maybe a 2 minutes to find and execute a landing assuming smoke or fumes or flames do not overcome you.

Had the pilot in this story been 10 more minutes from landing, this could have turned into a grease smear & ashes story with a funeral instead of:

Creeps the hell out of me.

plane-odessa-sf-png.65120
 
I bought my ol' warrior II at KODO. Middle of effin nowhere west texas. Good times. That KDRT-KODO drive at o dark thrity in the morning was lonesome though.

That picture shows that airplane holding short of probably Rwy 11. Def not landing. Seems that thing went up during taxi or post run-up. I guess we will hear from the pilot since he's alive to recount where the fuego started from.
 
Highly unlikely it was an ELT battery related fire. I suspect the aircraft battery was back there. That's a much more believable source since it's being charged while the engine is running, and the cables carry significant current so a short can be a real problem. All the rhetoric about lithium battery fires is nuts. All of you have lithium batteries all around you and you don't even think twice about it, but in an airplne discussion on the internet? They're evil?
 
Short story, kept short: I accidentally ran over my company iphone yesterday with my lawn mower. 27hp Exmark vs iphone 7...iphone lost.

When I went to pick up the partially shredded battery, it was hot as hell. Did not burn down my lawn mower though.
 
denverpilot said:
Lithium Iron (in that second post you linked) is waaaaaay different than “Lithium Ion”.

What was the model and actual chemistry of the battery in the 182? If it was given, I didn’t see it.

A LiFePo4 or similar is what I assume that second one was, and they’re only really likely to catch fire when under massive over charge or discharge. Meaning...

The dude did something to short that battery pack. Most likely anyway.

And even a boring old non-lithium anything chemistry battery is likely to start a fire when shorted out, as they LiFePo4.

Without exact chemistries the term “Lithium battery” is nearly meaningless.
Click to expand...

Nate it spot on. "Lithium battery" has become a buzzword and the safety implications that some people are coming up with relative to safety are simply not based in fact.
 
I recall a harrowing story of an RV builder who was taxiing his pride and joy with his daughter in it when it blew up. Crispyed them both good, though both recovered fully. Aircraft burned to cinders.
 
steingar said:
I recall a harrowing story of an RV builder who was taxiing his pride and joy with his daughter in it when it blew up. Crispyed them both good, though both recovered fully. Aircraft burned to cinders.
Click to expand...

Blew up? What did he do, install an auxiliary spark plug in the wing fuel tank? LOL.

“Blowing up” would indicate someone hiked fuel system components up VERY wrong. Like “anyone inspecting it should have caught that” levels of wrong.
 
Just to be clear on this thread, I don't give a r__'s a__ what kind of battery it was.
It could be any kind of battery, it could be a DiLithium-Crystal battery for all I care. No aspersions were meant to be tossed at any battery type or brand.
It's the whole idea that any one of us might be carrying something normally thought to be innocuous in our airplanes but which can cause such a conflagration which alarms me!
Hoping the solution to preventing the 'burned to a crisp' scenario is an easy one.
 
denverpilot said:
Blew up? What did he do, install an auxiliary spark plug in the wing fuel tank? LOL.

“Blowing up” would indicate someone hiked fuel system components up VERY wrong. Like “anyone inspecting it should have caught that” levels of wrong.
Click to expand...

lold
 
Pilot is a pipeline patrol. He said the ELT battery caught fire & didn’t smell smoke until he was on final.
 
oilburner said:
Pilot is a pipeline patrol. He said the ELT battery caught fire & didn’t smell smoke until he was on final.
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming the info I had when I started this thread. Nice to know the info I originally had was not completely bogus. But, like Bill says - not much to discuss til we hear the ntsb report. Let's wait for that then check back here.
 
My ELT uses lithium sulpher dioxide cells for the battery. Pretty much a handful of energizer-like lithium D cells in a plastic box. Not a big scary risk that some will paint them as. Lithium sulpher batteries are hanging on millions of store shelves and they aren’t bursting into flames. And since an ELT isn’t charged by the aircraft, and charging lithium batteries is the primary trouble source, and assuming the ELT wasn’t on so the batteries weren’t being discharged, it’s hard to understand why these batteries would self ignite while just sitting there doing nothing.

I’ll be interested in the report summary, if they actually come up with something.
 
steingar said:
I recall a fuel leak, I think a builder error if memory serves. Leaking fuel got ignited by something.
Click to expand...

Good to take the cowling off now and then to check things. We had an alternator replaced, so one of my partners went to the airport, took all the cowling off, and took a good looksee at the work. He also decided to do a quick engine run to look at things. Ugh, he noticed a fairly healthy stream of fuel shooting from one of the fuel lines directly onto the muffler! :hairraise: Glad he caught it, we had a new fuel hose made, but that could have been a bad situation in flight.
 
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