Yingling 172

They charge extra for that paint scheme?? :eek:

More likely equipped pushing $200K.

I'd want to know more about exactly what they do to inspect and repair the airframe. For that kind of dough, it better be pristine.
 
Well, if you are considering a new one, this one might be almost as good for 1/2 the price.
 
"Yingling"

Just another nickname for "the package."

Wait...

What thread is this again?
 
So for two hundred grand ,you get a used airplane with a new paint job,new avionics and a super inspection. Could work if your considering,and can afford a new one
 
No option for 180hp? Only engine is the O320-H2AD? Moving along...
 
Given the cost of comparable new aircraft there's a number of ventures popping up to try to offer detailed refurbishments of older airframes; a couple of additional links below. Although the Cirrus folks may disagree, if one was to design a clean sheet "mass produced" airplane today to serve the same mission as a Cherokee, C172, Baron or similar, the airframe and engines wouldn't be much different from the ones we are flying now. Most of the advances have been in the avionics.

http://www.tripleraffordableaircraft.com/

http://multicorpaviation.com/refurbishment

One of Multicorps projects, a nice '76 Aztec, done up a few years ago.

http://multicorpaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/March-2013-Aztec-Article_compressed.pdf

This airplane is up for sale at an asking price of $250k (owner apparently wants to emulate Eggman and move up to a twin turboprop). A brand new twin engine piston airplane today will be +/- a $million

Probably couldn't buy a turbo- Aztec and do all the work they did for $250k...but a lot of the cosmetics can be dispensed with and a similar equipped/performing airplane created from scratch for under $175k.

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1412565/1976-piper-turbo-aztec-f
 
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My understanding of the process is the aircraft comes as a zero-time airframe once done. The AOPA partnered with Aviat to create the 152 Reimagined with the same concept.
 
AOPA next giveaway plane is a Yingling C172. Maybe their web site has more info.
 
Check out yinglingaviation.com and click on the Ascend 172 link. Explains it all there, different levels of overall C172 and prices.
 
So for 200 grand I get a 172N, it's not even fuel injected and 180hp or better, doesn't come with a engine analyzer or even friggin wheel pants...

Guess there's a azz for every seat, but for a used plane of that vintage and "performance" you can get tons more for 200 large.
 
Agree with you guys. But if I win it in sweepstakes I'll fly it lol
 
mscard88 said:
Check out yinglingaviation.com and click on the Ascend 172 link. Explains it all there, different levels of overall C172 and prices.
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Indeed it does but I see no mention of the airframe being zero time once the renovation is finished. And I would think that that would be impossible. But I certainly don't know the ins and outs.

I did notice:

It comes with an overhauled engine and prop, not new. Really? For that money?

It doesn't appear to be equipped with ADS/B. Really? With less than four years to go?
 
I get the impression this refurbished 172 is targeting the flight school market; an economical alternative to new aircraft. No need for fuel injection, high hp or wheel pants.

Wouldn't a lot of them also be outside the ADS-B requirement?
 
Not good flight schools, for 200k I could get 4 sweetheart 172Ns with low time engines, they fly just the same and better ROI.
 
James331 said:
Not good flight schools, for 200k I could get 4 sweetheart 172Ns with low time engines, they fly just the same and better ROI.
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Maybe. Maybe not. What you describe is exactly what we've done for many years in our flying club; buying good used 152 and 172 airplanes. But these older airplanes require a lot of maintenance and there's always something not working, with at least one in the shop getting fixed at all times and therefore not available on the ramp. Of course with 4 of them you always have 3 spares :D
 
The newer planes ice been around had lower dispatch rates compared to the older ones. I wouldn't really say a well kept 50k 172N would have any less dispatch rate then a overhauled 200k yellow 172
 
James331 said:
The newer planes ice been around had lower dispatch rates compared to the older ones. I wouldn't really say a well kept 50k 172N would have any less dispatch rate then a overhauled 200k yellow 172
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We've found the 152/172 is darn near bulletproof. Finding good used ones is getting more difficult though. The club got rid of it's newer singles (I won't mention the manufacturer) for exactly the reason you posted - they were always breaking and costing a lot more than a good used 172 to keep in the air.

The snags with the fleet are mostly with radios, gyros and instruments, and that is where a refurbished 172 with everything in the panel new/overhauled might be an advantage. The other potential advantage for a flight school is the interior/exterior appearance and appeal to potential new students - a well worn but clean interior is fine in our club for members, but may not be the best marketing tool in a for-profit enterprise.
 
GRG55 said:
The snags with the fleet are mostly with radios, gyros and instruments, and that is where a refurbished 172 with everything in the panel new/overhauled might be an advantage.
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I found this to be true when flying older airplanes so you may be correct. The problem was usually the rat's nest of wires behind the panel and running though the airplane. Could you rewire an airplane and install new avionics for the price difference? Probably. But this way someone has done it for you.
 
If you've never built or thoroughly overhauled an airplane you probably can't anticipate the costs involved. I doubt Yingling has more than a modest profit margin in those planes. They must believe there's a market. I say good luck to them and I hope their customers are pleased with their purchases. Yingling may have set the bar for a "pristine" 172 without buying new.

There's no way to zero time the airframes but after SID inspection and repairs the old logbooks don't mean much. Especially if they start with NDH airframes.
 
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Stewartb said:
... Especially if they start with NDH airframes.
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With a plane the age of a 172N, shy of the 0.1% odd ball "collectors" kept <500tt plane, no such thing as NDH, just NDDH, No DOCUMENTED Damage History.

Damage history doesn't really matter as long as it was fixed properly, and frankly I'd rather be able to see where it got dinged and inspect the repair then have to hunt for the undocumented shhh job.
 
James331 said:
So for 200 grand I get a 172N, it's not even fuel injected and 180hp or better, doesn't come with a engine analyzer or even friggin wheel pants...

Guess there's a azz for every seat, but for a used plane of that vintage and "performance" you can get tons more for 200 large.
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Yep. Lots more airplane on the used market for that money, even if you had to do a major on the engine.

With 2020 approaching, ADSB should be standard equipment, not an option.
 
GRG55 said:
But these older airplanes require a lot of maintenance and there's always something not working...
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A good used 172 should require no more mx than this super Yingling. Most flight school planes are regularly in the shop because:
a). They get the sh*t beat out of them
and
b) they aren't properly maintained...i.e. they get the bare minimum preventative maintenance.

At least that's what I've seen at the flight schools I've been around.

The Yingling 172 won't fix those two issues.

Everskyward said:
The problem was usually the rat's nest of wires behind the panel and running though the airplane. Could you rewire an airplane and install new avionics for the price difference? Probably. But this way someone has done it for you.
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Yes you can and it's not too expensive on a typical 172/182 type of plane. When I did my aviaonics upgrade the shop had explicit instructions to "clean everything up." They did, it was less than a 1AMU premium. I have no unused/excess wires in my airplane. It was worth every penny.
 
Clean it up should mean tear that old crap wire completely out and start from scratch from tip to tail. That costs considerably more than $1K. New panel, switches, intruments, controls, wiring, and interior is not a cheap work order but that's how to make it as good as new. Add a motor, prop, glass, and paint plus structural and cosmetic repairs and the Yingling price sounds fair.
 
GRG55 said:
I get the impression this refurbished 172 is targeting the flight school market; an economical alternative to new aircraft. No need for fuel injection, high hp or wheel pants.
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Exactly. None of these things contribute to the bottom line of a flight-school. Fuel injection costs more to maintain, extra HP drinks more fuel and the only thing wheel-pants do is crack and get in the way when changing the cheap retread tires (that the students have flat-spotted within the first 20hrs).

160k is little money if that is the plane that runs up the hours and is chosen over the ratty 172s with the saggy headliner available across the ramp.
 
Stewartb said:
Clean it up should mean tear that old crap wire completely out and start from scratch from tip to tail. That costs considerably more than $1K. New panel, switches, intruments, controls, wiring, and interior is not a cheap work order but that's how to make it as good as new. Add a motor, prop, glass, and paint plus structural and cosmetic repairs and the Yingling price sounds fair.
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Maybe I should've been more clear to preempt responses from the excessively pedantic...

I meant "clean everything up under/behind the panel" and I was talking about wiring only, as was Mari, who I was responding to. I wasn't talkng about every electrical system and component in the airplane.

Most of the wiring in the plane's extremities had already been replaced when new nav lights, strobes, beacon etc. were installed.

As stated, I have no unused/excess wires in my airplane. (You might also note that I didn't say 100% new)
 
Stewartb said:
Clean it up should mean tear that old crap wire completely out and start from scratch from tip to tail. That costs considerably more than $1K. New panel, switches, intruments, controls, wiring, and interior is not a cheap work order but that's how to make it as good as new. Add a motor, prop, glass, and paint plus structural and cosmetic repairs and the Yingling price sounds fair.
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Why?

Sounds like spending money to spend money, I mean if you're building a plane up from pieces, sure, but on most planes I don't see the advantage to replacing my tail cone nav light wire (which works just fine) with another wire which also works just fine and weighs the same.

I know some folks have the mindset that the more money that chuck at things the better they become, this may be true to some extent, but it gets to a point that you're just chucking money to make yourself feel better. Most planes have the majority of electrical changes occurring on the panel, cleaning up all the old storm scope, old post light wire and whatnot is a great idea, replacing perfectly good wires in your wing that are being used, not so much.
 
timwinters said:
Maybe I should've been more clear to preempt responses from the excessively pedantic...

I meant "clean everything up under/behind the panel" and I was talking about wiring only, as was Mari, who I was responding to. I wasn't talkng about every electrical system and component in the airplane.

Most of the wiring in the plane's extremities had already been replaced when new nav lights, strobes, beacon etc. were installed.

As stated, I have no unused/excess wires in my airplane. (You might also note that I didn't say 100% new)
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Actually I was not just talking about the wiring.

Everskyward said:
Could you rewire an airplane and install new avionics for the price difference? Probably. But this way someone has done it for you.
Click to expand...
 
weilke said:
160k is little money if that is the plane that runs up the hours and is chosen over the ratty 172s with the saggy headliner available across the ramp.
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Would you pay more 20-30% more per flight hour for it? Would most students?
 
James331 said:
Why?

Sounds like spending money to spend money, I mean if you're building a plane up from pieces, sure, but on most planes I don't see the advantage to replacing my tail cone nav light wire (which works just fine) with another wire which also works just fine and weighs the same.

I know some folks have the mindset that the more money that chuck at things the better they become, this may be true to some extent, but it gets to a point that you're just chucking money to make yourself feel better. Most planes have the majority of electrical changes occurring on the panel, cleaning up all the old storm scope, old post light wire and whatnot is a great idea, replacing perfectly good wires in your wing that are being used, not so much.
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Because it can be done better. And better is better.
 
OkieAviator said:
Would you pay more 20-30% more per flight hour for it? Would most students?
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In a high utilization scenario, the capital cost is only a small portion of the total. Let's say an extra 100k costs you $4000/year, that's $10/hr in a 400hr plane and $8/hr in a 500hr plane. The op-ex of one O320 steam gauge equipped plane vs the other is going to be the same.

Flight schools use post-restart models that fall into that price range. They are pricier to maintain than the N model.

The wildcard is depreciation. Are the Yingling planes going to keep their value or will they depreciate to the level of a regular 'N' within 5 years.

They are not competing with a ratty original puke green 1974 model. They are competing with a 2001 Skyhawk SP, a 2004 DA40 or a 2006 Warrior with Avidyne and 430Ws, all planes in use at some of the better flight schools.
 
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midwestpa24 said:
My understanding of the process is the aircraft comes as a zero-time airframe once done. The AOPA partnered with Aviat to create the 152 Reimagined with the same concept.
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The airframe logbook will always state the original time. There is no 'zero timing' a used airframe. They are actively looking for low time airframes for this treatment. It will still be a 2000hr plane but it won't be full of birdcrap with screws that have rusted in place and the door latch will hit the catch without requiring a secret wrist-flick to get it to close.
 
At that price it should come with a lifetime supply of beer.
 
weilke said:
In a high utilization scenario, the capital cost is only a small portion of the total. Let's say an extra 100k costs you $4000/year, that's $10/hr in a 400hr plane and $8/hr in a 500hr plane. The op-ex of one O320 steam gauge equipped plane vs the other is going to be the same.
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I can't speak from a flight school perspective having never owned one, but from a financial standpoint it's not going to be simple math. You'll have the cost of capital used, whether it's financed or could of been used in a manner to generate more income. The delta is probably more like $130K given my experience with the 172s I trained on- I also used there pricing compared to another place here that rents G1000 172s and charges 40% more per hour. The operating expensive is also going to be different, you might have less maintenance costs on fixing squawks but you'll pay more in insurance given the difference in hull value.

If I was really jonesing to buy a new 172 I would consider this. Otherwise I would do what I already did... get a structurally decent 172 with a worn out engine... get the engine overhauled, STOL kit, new interior, new paint and some updated avionics... Did this for about half of what this Yingling costs.

If I had a flight school I would probably do something similiar minus the 180 conversion and STOL kit. So have a nice plane for $60K or so....
 
1. Some people are happy flying an older, less expensive, less well equipped airplane.

2. Some people like fixer-uppers and are willing to put in the time and effort to get the airplane just the way they want.

3. Some people want others to do the work for them before they buy (the Yingling example).

4. Some people like to buy new.
 
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