Yet another "best" airplane question, but

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speedy71

Filing Flight Plan
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speedy
Greetings all,
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, i did a search, but could not find anything to answer my question. I'm currently doing my PPL training and have decided that long term, it would be best to buy an airplane. After reading for several hours, it seems that the general consensus answer is to "consider your mission." Well, I think I know my mission, but since i know jack about aircraft other than my primary traininers (C172s), i don't know what to consider. Below is a list of what I think i need, can someone chime in on aircraft I should be looking at that would meet these requirements?

1. My primary flying will be local, probably once or twice a week.
2. About once a month i want to be able to fly for a weekend getaway about 300 nm away. for the most part, that flight will be 2 adults, but sometimes we may want to have 4 total.
3. Two to three times a year I want to fly to Florida to visit the parents, that would be about 700 nm. That flight would only be 2 adults. It would be awesome to be able to do that in a single tank, but i don't mind having a stop.
4. Trying to stay under $75K on the price so that i can have reserves and money to actually fuel the plane.
5. i want a plane that I can use for IFR training to further my knowledge. To that end, i would like relatively newer avionics, so i don't have to add/replace components.

Does such a beast even exists? what planes should i be looking at?
 
Your mission perimeters can only be filled with an IFR equipped Velocity...that is all.
 
I'd look at these.

You'd be looking at top of the line examples of thee guys for your budget.


Grumman AA5

C182

PA24

C170

Maules

Stinson 108

PA28 Warrior
 
a T-tail, twin turboprop, pressurized, high-wing experimental mooney with club seating.

I'm just kidding. you can't get those for under 75k.

all kidding aside, you're close to M20J range, that might meet your needs.
 
I'd probably say a mid-70s 182...
 
If you want a high wing, I'd go with a C-182. A low wing, I'd go with an AA-5B. 700 NM might be pushing it on a Grumman though.
 
You can buy an aircraft to meet this mission for a lot less than 75k. and you don't need a 182 to haul 4 people twice a year.

this would do nicely.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/2153636.html

Low time airframe, mid life engine, decent AV equipment.
 
One thing to think about is operating cost. Lots of planes to fit that price and mission (I'm assuming, I'm no expert). Some require more feeding than others.
Also have you thought about partnership? There's 4 of us in an arrow. Works out great scheduling and mx bills are split 4 ways. Plus we have an engine/prop fund. I love it. *this is my first ownership experience, so I have very little experience. I got my ppl, flew 30 hrs in just over 1 yr. Then just bought into the plane this past june. Since then have flown 40 hours.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
Depends on where you're based. If you're at sea level, I can't say I'm too familiar with what would be most practical but if you live in the mountains/high plains, without a doubt, the 182 is your best option. They are a true 4-place airplane, burn about 10gph, can get you over the mountains. Best of all, they fly with the ease and grace of a 172, which will make it that much easier to focus on your navigation and in time, your instrument rating.

I think you can pick up a decent 60s model, IFR certified, for around $50k if you're willing to look past mismatched interiors and an inoperative flap indicator here and there.
 
Cessna 182 or Piper Dakota. Well the Dakota might be out of price range. You could get an Arrow III/IV which has 77 gallons. I've done 800nm legs non-stop with one.
 
Get a biplane... If you want to fly with 4 people once a year rent a Cessna. You can do acro training instead of ifr training.
Don't that sound like more fun? A Christen Eagle will fit your price range and will cruise about 160mph.
The reason I say this is because your post says most flying will be local. Flying around local isn't fun in a boring airplane. Get something fun to fly. I have owned 12 airplanes to date. The one I enjoy for local flying is my J-3 Cub but you are not going far at 60 mph.
 
Hm, I'd say an Aero Commander Lark, Aeronca Sedan, TB9, TB10, TB20, Socata Rallye, Beech Musketeer, Sierra, Debonair, Bonanza, Travel Air, Bellanca Viking, C-170, C-172, C-172RG, C-172XP, C-175, C-177, C-180, C-182, early C-210, C-310, C-337, Commander 112, AA5B, Lake Buccaneer, Luscombe 11, Maule, Mooney M20F, M20J, Navion, Piper Pacer, Tri-Pacer, Apache, Aztec, Archer, Arrow, T-Arrow, Cherokee-235, Comanche, Twin Comanche, Lance or Stinson 108 would fit your requirements.
 
I have a similar mission and I'm looking at Stinsons and Fairchilds. A little cooler in my eyes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If you can find one in your price range, I'd recommend P or Q model 182. They have the option to increase the GTOW by 150lbs with a paper STC.
 
My $40k 1968 Cardinal w/150hp does that. N Alabama to Florida (250 NM) or Memphis (175 NM) for weekends and the occasional trip to MD (~550 NM) to see the kids. I do need a comfort stop on the way to MD so I fill up with gas.

If your four people are larger you could go with a C-177 RG with 50 more hp, but then you are bumping your budget.
 
I would buy a plane that fits your new pilot abilities. Piper 140, 160, 180 or Cessna 172 are good safe planes that would help you grow as a pilot. In a year or so sell it and move up to a bigger faster plane that matches your abilities as a pilot.
 
SCCutler said:
Very nice rig, good price, it has the 470 engine which is close to bulletproof.

Faster than a 182, burns less fuel.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...NANZA/1962-BEECHCRAFT-P35-BONANZA/1389019.htm
Click to expand...

You can do better for the money.



Boom
1959 COMANCHE 250 • $49,000 • ACCEPTING OFFERS • 5577 TT, 153 SMOH. This Comanche is a beautiful example of one Pipers best flying airplanes. Has been meticulously maintained, has very low engine times on a very well documented overhaul. New King KX-155 w Glideslope, and intercom installed in 2012. One piece windshield, wingtip strobes. Paint and Interior in good condition. Annual inspection and Transponder/Pitot Static certs current. Landing gear bungees replaced 2014. New Plane power Alternator and Voltage regulator installed 2014. Painted wheel wells. 49,000 OBO • VISIT MY WEBSITE • Contact Joshua Hill - TALLGRASS AVIATION LLC., Broker - located Derby, KS USA • Telephone: 316-249-3608 . • Posted August 31, 2015 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures
Click to expand...

.watermarked_3fae7ce2aadc35f31035fca241790699.jpg


http://www.barnstormers.com/Piper, PA-24+Comanche Classifieds.htm

Get it for 40k, get your favorite GPS and maybe a aspen put in, you're on budget, it a sweetheart plane.


Little less power, little less fuel burn, already has a stec AP with ALT.

PIPER COMANCHE 1958 • $32,000 • ESTATE SALE • 1958 Piper Comanche PA 24 Priced below Appraised Value ...$32,000..OBO Must Sell!! - AUTO PILOT - ST EC 5050 with ALTITUDE HOLD, $10,000 New Variable Speed, Hartzell Prop and Spinner..New rebuilt Lycoming Engine 2014, approx. 20 hrs. since Major Overhaul. Michael's MX 170C Digital Nav/Com with Glideslope... Plane has been flown regularly. Still in Annual All Logs available. • Contact Barbara A. LaFever-adams, Owner - located Fort Wayne , IN USA • Telephone: 2604378401 . 2606371088 • Posted August 14, 2015 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures
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.watermarked_be3456710120b18dc99a8ca780029ba1.jpg





Id get something like one of these guys, and for less than your budget you'd have a low time, fully decked out cross country machine, I've flown these guys before (the 180hp little one too) and they fly great, handle grass just fine and can handle a load.
 
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Scott@KTYR said:
I would buy a plane that fits your new pilot abilities. Piper 140, 160, 180 or Cessna 172 are good safe planes that would help you grow as a pilot. In a year or so sell it and move up to a bigger faster plane that matches your abilities as a pilot.
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Oh boy!!! No you didn't go there!!! :popcorn:
 
I think there are a couple other questions that need to be answered:

How big are the people, and how much baggage when carrying four? How important is this mission requirement? Several airplanes mentioned have four seats but aren't practical for four average adults, let alone four adults and bags. There is also a range/payload tradeoff. My Cherokee 180 will carry four 175 pound people and everything we need for a week at Oshkosh, but we need to stop every two hours for gas!

How important is speed? 182 has kept turning up and there is a reason it is so popular, but it is not blistering fast. That said is 20 minutes less flying on the 300 mile leg worth dealing with a more complex aircraft? Of course, if you are flying a 182 burning 13gph at 130 knots and a PA24-260 burning 13gph at 155 knots you may be saving enough time to pay for the additional ownership costs of the more complex plane.

Operating costs: 75K opens up a lot of airplanes, but how much are you looking to spend per hour?

Assuming four real people and at least light bags, and a balance of operating costs and speed, I think the 182 or PA24 both seem like candidates for you. Obviously lots of other options! More details will yield some better suggestions, or at least ones more practical to what you want.
 
I would buy your last plane first, which is actually a boat. So just buy a boat now and save yourself a lot of hassle getting to that ultimate place.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
I would buy a plane that fits your new pilot abilities. Piper 140, 160, 180 or Cessna 172 are good safe planes that would help you grow as a pilot. In a year or so sell it and move up to a bigger faster plane that matches your abilities as a pilot.
Click to expand...

75k is going to get you a so so C180 Skywagon with a basic legal mins IFR panel.

Unless you're going backcountry, tundras, skis, or floats, this isn't where I'd stick my money.


Also PA24s arnt much in MX, very basic everything, nice manual flaps, I'd wager they are about the same MX wise as a older 182.
 
Get something that you can get places with, not a 100 MPH plane.

 
A 182 would probably be your best choice,a Comanche ,would also meet your mission.
 
Look at the possibility of a partnership. You might find an older aviator that has owned for some time, doesn't fly as much has he used to... And, then, along with a plane, you get an ownership mentor.
 
Trying to read between the lines, sounds like you want to use it for travel. Doing a CC once a month with a big one or two each year benefits from a traveling machine.

The C182 is perfect. I'm not a 182 fan but it sounds right for you. Very capable CC machine, 4 people no problem, 2 people and all the sh*t you'd ever want to carry (don't underestimate that). Whatever you do, keep it fixed gear for maintenance reasons, get a CS prop for efficiency, good engine instrumentation is a big plus for LOP ops, a WAAS G430 or 530 will give you a fine avionics base. Don't plan on an avionics upgrade in the short term, get a panel you can live and train with. That's just inescapable economics.

Forget the local mission - you can do as much of that as you want with whatever you get. If you actually want to have local fun it will take an acro bipe or a cub or a tailwheel putt putt or a sailplane. But then you won't be able to actually go anywhere with anyone.

When doing CC - the bigger engine won't cost you much more in fuel, only in maintenance.

I had the same mission profile years ago and got a Maule. But I like less common aircraft, needed the tw challenge and it was a bit faster than my sailplane so I was happy.
 
I would second the Comanche recommendation.

A 250 with tip tanks (90 gal) will get you the payload/range and Speed that you want.

1,200lb payload.

145 knots at 5k feet, 155 at 10k burning 12.5/hr ROP.

More room then a Mooney but it does burn a couple more gallons of Avgas to get the same speed. But a Comanche will carry more.

Great CG envelope with room for 200lbs of bags.

I am a bit bias but I truely think, right now they are the best bang for the buck if you want a plane to go places.

Flav.
 
Flavius Renatus said:
I would second the Comanche recommendation.

A 250 with tip tanks (90 gal) will get you the payload/range and Speed that you want.

1,200lb payload.

145 knots at 5k feet, 155 at 10k burning 12.5/hr ROP.

More room then a Mooney but it does burn a couple more gallons of Avgas to get the same speed. But a Comanche will carry more.

Great CG envelope with room for 200lbs of bags.

I am a bit bias but I truely think, right now they are the best bang for the buck if you want a plane to go places.

Flav.
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What is the overall costs like? Maintenance? Annuals?
 
Wow... thank you all for the suggestions. I am leaning towards the C182 since it will be more familiar considering i've been training on the C172. Though i am a bit concerned about the constant speed prop since i've never worked one. Hate to sound like a complete beginner, but since i am, i will ask anyway: Is there some sort of overview on how to use a constant speed prop?

Someone also mentioned the possibility of partnering with someone. that sounds like a great idea, but where would i go about finding this mystery pilot near my home base?
 
speedy71 said:
Wow... thank you all for the suggestions. I am leaning towards the C182 since it will be more familiar considering i've been training on the C172. Though i am a bit concerned about the constant speed prop since i've never worked one. Hate to sound like a complete beginner, but since i am, i will ask anyway: Is there some sort of overview on how to use a constant speed prop?

Someone also mentioned the possibility of partnering with someone. that sounds like a great idea, but where would i go about finding this mystery pilot near my home base?
Click to expand...
I can respond to both of these since I have experience in those regards.
1. Prop. Don't sweat it. I had the same concerns as you. But you learn it quickly. Not much movement of the prop lever in all honesty. If you can learn to fly a plane, you can learn to move another lever.
2.finding a partner. NETWORK. I told all the instructors (3 or them) I flew with at my airport that I was looking for a plane. Also check out any buliton boards in the pilots lounge. If there's a mechanic on the field ask him if there's any planes that are in partnership. The reason I got into my plane was because of my primary instructor. He was sort of my behind the scenes broker. But I also talked to the one mechanic on the fields, he has done/does all the maintenance on our arrow so he was able to help me out a little too.
Finding a plane doesn't happen too quickly. From the time I got my first lead to the time I actually bought in was 8 months (although I think that is decent timing). I was fortunate in my time line.
 
FloridaPilot said:
What is the overall costs like? Maintenance? Annuals?
Click to expand...

About the same as any High Performance Retractable.

1st Annual can be expensive if you do not get a good pre-buy. Normal annual for me is $2k, but I usually add things during annual.

There are a couple of ADs that you need to make sure have been complied with, nothing really killer, but it can get pricey.

There are 4 real good Comanche shops in the nation, find the closest one to you and get them to do the pre-buy.

Corrosion is normally not a problem, all Comanches were treated at the factory.

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info.

Flav
 
Flavius Renatus said:
About the same as any High Performance Retractable.

1st Annual can be expensive if you do not get a good pre-buy. Normal annual for me is $2k, but I usually add things during annual.

There are a couple of ADs that you need to make sure have been complied with, nothing really killer, but it can get pricey.

There are 4 real good Comanche shops in the nation, find the closest one to you and get them to do the pre-buy.

Corrosion is normally not a problem, all Comanches were treated at the factory.

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info.

Flav
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We had a PA24 for training CPLs, nothing major really ever came up on annuals or 100hrs, the gear is very simple, if you do owner assist I'd expect 1k-1200 annuals, also more comfy inside compared to a 182 and the handling on the PA24 wing and tail is much more crisp IMO. 75k will get you one mean PA24, or a middle range 182.

IMO outside of using it as a drop zone ship, 182s are a little expensive for what they are.

I would HIGHLY recommend at least flying a 182 and a PA24 before you buy.
 
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