wrecked the Fairchild today

Tom,

Just read through this post.....I'm gald you're ok, sorry to see the pictures of the plane. I read every post during the restoration......wishing you the best!
 
... and that's when it truly becomes a ground loop, and not just a mere swerve. You're basically along for the ride when it goes that far. All you can do is hang on and pay attention, because it is time to learn a lesson. :D.

Pretty much over by that time, this one was the worst one i have ever experienced. This one included a lot of crow hopping sideways.


damage pictures
 

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Well, you get more airflow over the rudder so it is more effective.

It's never enough, and when it noses up you are at high power ---> bye bye engine.

The last thing I need to add to the repair bill is a new crank for a Warner.
 
Pretty much over by that time, this one was the worst one i have ever experienced. This one included a lot of crow hopping sideways.


damage pictures

hmmmm....

Looking at that last pic, could it be you're leaning towards making her whole again???
 
Well, as I said, "chance". If you are out of rudder, and all you have left is brake, chances are real good that you are already past the point of no return. If you are out of rudder, chances are that the CG is already outside of the gear track and adding brake is just going to accelerate the groundloop.

Someone should invent an airplane that puts a single wheel in front of the two main wheels.
 
Looking at that last pic, could it be you're leaning towards making her whole again???

just got it off the floor, so I can undress the fuselage to see what's broke there.
 
just got it off the floor, so I can undress the fuselage to see what's broke there.
Sorry to hear about this Tom. If you were under-insured, I suspect your best option would be to give the insurer your own repair quote that amounts to something less than their total write-off threshold. AFaIK they typically take the policy limit minus the salvage value for that so if you've got a good idea what the avionics, airframe, and engine are worth to a salvage yard (wholesale) it should be easy to figure out what they're willing to pay for repairs. Then you can decide if it's worth it to you to do the work for that amount. All I can say is it's a good thing you like to work on old airplanes.
 
Sorry to hear about this Tom. If you were under-insured, I suspect your best option would be to give the insurer your own repair quote that amounts to something less than their total write-off threshold. AFaIK they typically take the policy limit minus the salvage value for that so if you've got a good idea what the avionics, airframe, and engine are worth to a salvage yard (wholesale) it should be easy to figure out what they're willing to pay for repairs. Then you can decide if it's worth it to you to do the work for that amount. All I can say is it's a good thing you like to work on old airplanes.
They asked for my repair quote, I gave it, they are contemplating. we will know soon.

This isn't the way I wanted to sell the 24.
 
All the pics show obvious damage, but the fire wall area.... Was the dent in the metal behind the hydraulic lines supposed to be there???
 
All the pics show obvious damage, but the fire wall area.... Was the dent in the metal behind the hydraulic lines supposed to be there???
The exhaust pipe was bent back and shoved the air dam rearward, that was attached to the lower cowl at the front and the lower cowl was attached to the fire wall so all these parts are about 4" aft of where they should be.

the little lines are the engine primer lines the white thing is the fuel gascolator, the big line is the fuel line to the engine.
 
Sorry to hear about your plane, but I'm glad you're OK.

They also advised me of the "Pilot's bill of rights" and wanted me to sign a sheet saying I had been informed, but they had brought the wrong form. ( so I refused to sign it)

Along the lines of showing a cooperative attitude, you may want to locate the correct form, sign it, and mail it in to them, or mail them a simple statement that you were informed of the "Pilot's bill or rights" by them.
 
Sorry to hear about your plane, but I'm glad you're OK.



Along the lines of showing a cooperative attitude, you may want to locate the correct form, sign it, and mail it in to them, or mail them a simple statement that you were informed of the "Pilot's bill or rights" by them.

THe inspector sent me the correct form by e-mail. I signed it and sent it back.
 
The exhaust pipe was bent back and shoved the air dam rearward, that was attached to the lower cowl at the front and the lower cowl was attached to the fire wall so all these parts are about 4" aft of where they should be.

the little lines are the engine primer lines the white thing is the fuel gascolator, the big line is the fuel line to the engine.


I figured as much. You finish off that bottle of CR? Pete's got a kettlebell class in Seattle this weekend, I can bring you another bottle (or three). lol.

We almost stopped by last weekend (22nd). Needed some time out of the smoke so we headed up to Mt Baker. Had forgotten the Oyster Run was on Sunday. Didn't want to be anywhere near a bunch of drunken morons on motorcycles, so we stayed in Sedro Wooley. Beautiful ride up to Artists Point. Next time I'll have to take a bike that would appreciate the corners better than a dual sport.
 
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Any more updates? This hits home since my next "thing" was going to be getting taildragger lessons / endorsement at a nearby flight school in a Citabria.
 
Any more updates? This hits home since my next "thing" was going to be getting taildragger lessons / endorsement at a nearby flight school in a Citabria.
IF you do not have any other reason than another endorsement, don't bother.

Having the endorsement and not being proficient is an accident waiting to happen.

When you don't have a tailwheel aircraft to fly on a regular bases you can't maintain your skills.

Money better spent is the Instrument rating.
 
I think TW training helps all pilots understand the use of those two things under your feet. It will make a better pilot out of a nose dragger only guy. However, the endorsement without regular practice in TW ops is not a good plan. Double edge sword.
 

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IF you do not have any other reason than another endorsement, don't bother.

Having the endorsement and not being proficient is an accident waiting to happen.

When you don't have a tailwheel aircraft to fly on a regular bases you can't maintain your skills.

Money better spent is the Instrument rating.

Exactly. Plus they are not that close to me, the airport (and the plane) don't allow night ops which means no going to dinners, and I don't know how often I would rent the taildragger anyway since it is always in use for their training and my C150 is only $80 (TW is over $100)
 
learn to use the rudders in your nose wheel, it will help as much as getting the T/W endorsement.
 
Exactly. Plus they are not that close to me, the airport (and the plane) don't allow night ops which means no going to dinners, and I don't know how often I would rent the taildragger anyway since it is always in use for their training and my C150 is only $80 (TW is over $100)

You can take this advice or leave it, but if you're not going to stay current in a tailwheel aircraft and fly one regularly, I think you're just setting yourself up to be a ground-loop statistic.

Sure, get the endorsement but if you're going to mostly fly a nosedragger, I don't know how you're going to stay on your game to fly it "every so often".

I personally think a glider rating has similar value in "connecting feet to brain" and would tend to go that route first. Or be very cautious with a tailwheel endorsement and budget to regularly go up with a CFI in it until I knew all synapses were hard-wired to appropriate tailwheel responses, which would mean significant recurrent time in a TW aircraft every so often.

Just an opinion.
 
You can take this advice or leave it, but if you're not going to stay current in a tailwheel aircraft and fly one regularly, I think you're just setting yourself up to be a ground-loop statistic.

Sure, get the endorsement but if you're going to mostly fly a nosedragger, I don't know how you're going to stay on your game to fly it "every so often".

I personally think a glider rating has similar value in "connecting feet to brain" and would tend to go that route first. Or be very cautious with a tailwheel endorsement and budget to regularly go up with a CFI in it until I knew all synapses were hard-wired to appropriate tailwheel responses, which would mean significant recurrent time in a TW aircraft every so often.

Just an opinion.

Completely agree. Glider not an option - the nearest one is about 2-4 hour drive EACH WAY from where I live.
 
Completely agree. Glider not an option - the nearest one is about 2-4 hour drive EACH WAY from where I live.
Distance is no excuse. That's why you got the PP to begin with. I once flew a couple of hours to buy something JUST BECAUSE I COULD! Mailorder would have been so much cheaper, just not as much fun.
 
Every one talks of the better rudder control you learn in a conventional gear, but the biggest learning curve is airspeed control and the ability to tell how far above the runway you are.

You can practice that in any aircraft.
 
You can take this advice or leave it, but if you're not going to stay current in a tailwheel aircraft and fly one regularly, I think you're just setting yourself up to be a ground-loop statistic.

Sure, get the endorsement but if you're going to mostly fly a nosedragger, I don't know how you're going to stay on your game to fly it "every so often".

I personally think a glider rating has similar value in "connecting feet to brain" and would tend to go that route first. Or be very cautious with a tailwheel endorsement and budget to regularly go up with a CFI in it until I knew all synapses were hard-wired to appropriate tailwheel responses, which would mean significant recurrent time in a TW aircraft every so often.

Just an opinion.

Don't mean this as a criticism, but I think a lot of you guys with loads of experience may have forgotten the thrill of learning. I was on home leave and took a few lessons. I was only going to be home for 2 weeks and seriously pondered getting the tail wheel endorsement. Heck, I was going to be out of country again for a year and knew I wouldn't use it, but it was fun to fly a different kind of plane, land in different places, face different challenges. I'm a bit disappointed I didn't make it happen.

I've lost the photo, but had it as a screen saver for a while. Instructor took it and you could see part of the Cub wing, part of me and a beautiful bit of country side. I still remember when he took me to a paved runway and had me just work the pattern. Then we switched to cross wind landings and it felt totally different.

At the time, I owned and had been flying (until going overseas) a Velocity. Wasn't reasonable to unpickle the plane for a few weeks and besides I was pretty rusty with no way to get a local Velocity check out. The few flights in the Cub were HIGHLY memorable. The Cub is my daughters favorite plane "in the whole world" and now she knows I flew one. Pretty neat contrast to the Velocity - couldn't see the instruments, door open, airspeed control by sound/feel, completely awesome.

I'd encourage you guys to encourage us. You can throw in a "you need to be REALLY careful if you don't stay current" and maybe even a "you'll become a statistic if you think you can fly a tail wheel just a few times a year", but new experiences are why many of us picked up GA in the first place. I'd love to get a tail wheel endorsement and a sea plane rating. May not use them for years or maybe even ever again, but I want to do it.

So Kim, I'd encourage you to get the endorsement. It is a BLAST to fly a tail dragger. Go out and do it, check it off the bucket list, do it and enjoy it. Where you are with your license now is basically flying just to fly. The instrument rating is rewarding and challenging and will increase the utility of your license, but the tail wheel endorsement is plain old fun.
 
I'd love to get a tail wheel endorsement and a sea plane rating. May not use them for years or maybe even ever again, but I want to do it.
I agree with this. Nothing wrong with trying something just for fun even if you don't use it for years or ever again. Just keep in mind that if you go back to it you are going to need more training.
 
Agreed. I have not forgotten the thrill. I just have a 182 that needs to be flown regularly and that may be one benefit that renters have...

Feel like switching up, you don't have to double expenses and time so your bird gets flown. Having co-owners obviously helps here, but single-owner, you don't want your airplane to sit. It's hard on them. ;)

Next up for me is the Glider add-on, I'm pretty sure. Just dealing with some other fun and non-fun stuff right now.
 
Agreed. I have not forgotten the thrill. I just have a 182 that needs to be flown regularly and that may be one benefit that renters have...

Feel like switching up, you don't have to double expenses and time so your bird gets flown. Having co-owners obviously helps here, but single-owner, you don't want your airplane to sit. It's hard on them. ;)

I am in the same boat. It is hard to justify renting when you have your own aircraft at the airport. That is one facet in the owning versus renting equation that we don't talk about much.
 
I'm all cried out, now we get back to fixen it.

or moving on.

all depends upon what the insurance company does, ($$$)

Glad to hear it Tom. I have bent more than my share of airplane. After the pity party it is time to repair, replace, learn and move on.

Good on you for posting this event. We all make mistakes, and we all can learn from them.
 
Feet.

I don't know if it's a tailwheel thing, or just an old airplane with lots of adverse yaw thing.

But when I was getting re-treaded (after more years of not being active than I would care to think about) I was flying along in a venerable (that sounds better than POS) Cessna 150 and the instructor commented "I like what you are doing with your feet". Feet? Yea, they were on the pedals, but I wasn't aware that I was really doing anything with my feet. :dunno:

When I got back in a tailwheel airplane, it wasn't bad on the grass, but the first landing on a paved runway with a crosswind... :yikes::hairraise::ohsnap::blush::hairraise::yikes:

But, so far, the airplane has still been re-usable after most of my landings.
 
When I got my seaplane rating the instructor said he could always tell which students flew a tailwheel airplane.
 
The way I see it, the "tailwheel mystique" is a lot like the "glider mystique"... with a nosewheel airplane, you certainly can learn how to use your feet properly, but with a taildragger, you absolutely must.
And while you can learn to fly the wing efficiently, and always think ahead with any airplane, with a glider you must.
 
Tom, you know you're going to fix it.
 
Those that I flew wouldn't turn without a hefty dose of encouragement from the pedals. I always assumed the go-straight characteristic was due to the additional directional stability from the floats, but never bothered to ask.



When I got my seaplane rating the instructor said he could always tell which students flew a tailwheel airplane.
 
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