Would this be considered actual or simulated instrument?

[napoleonpp]

Hello everyone I am new to these forums and looking for some advice for a small question. I've tried looking it up, but can't seem to find myself a clear answer. I just recently graduated from the Army flight school as a helicopter pilot, and have a question about logging my instrument time from training.

We were trained in a Bell 206 to perform instrument flights. During training we were wearing a HOOD device to learn how to perform these maneuvers. I've read in the Regs and from forum posts during my research that you can log Actual Instument time basically anytime you fly solely using your instruments. Is this correct? If that is correct then HOOD flight tim could be logged as Actual Instrument flight time. If so then when would I ever log time under Simulated Instrument in my personal logbook?

I'm not sure if anyone may have had any experience with logging time in the Army or not. Another issue is probably about half my flight times were logged by my Instructor Pilot as "H" indicating HOOD. The other half was logged as "W" indicating WX. How do you think I should log this in my logbook? Like I said I'm new to this forum and couldn't find any answers from my own research. Thanks for any advice!

 

[tsts4]

Short answer--When wearing a view limiting device, aka your hood, your time would be logged as simulated instrument time not actual.

 

[Captain]

A view limiting device "Simulates" instrument conditions and is logged as "simulated IMC"

When the plane is "actually" inside clouds you log that as "actual IMC"

 

[napoleonpp]

Ok that's what I thought but some of the wording was throwing me off. Thanks for the help

 

[Gucci Pilot]

It all depends on how you guys log it in the Army. I would just ask one of the older instructors that is getting all his ducks in a row to get out and fly civilian. From what you stated it sounds like your "H" time is simulated and your "W" time is actual.

 

[napoleonpp]

That's what I was thinking also. It seems like everyone in the army logs their time in their personal logbooks different, which I find aggravating. For example, the way the Army logs flight time is from wheels up to wheels down, which is different than FAA. Some people log it to the FAA standard, while others say to log it as the Army does because employers will add on 10% or so flight time due to the difference in logging hours. I can't remember what the actual computation is. I asked one of my IPs and he said its a waste of time even keeping a logbook because employers will only want to see your Army printout of hours. I figured it can't hurt to keep one, especially with how bad the Army is with paperwork.

 

[Velocity173]

That's what I was thinking also. It seems like everyone in the army logs their time in their personal logbooks different, which I find aggravating. For example, the way the Army logs flight time is from wheels up to wheels down, which is different than FAA. Some people log it to the FAA standard, while others say to log it as the Army does because employers will add on 10% or so flight time due to the difference in logging hours. I can't remember what the actual computation is. I asked one of my IPs and he said its a waste of time even keeping a logbook because employers will only want to see your Army printout of hours. I figured it can't hurt to keep one, especially with how bad the Army is with paperwork.

Unless they rewrote 95-1 recently you should be logging time from wheels up to engine shutdown / flight crew change out. Based on that, for an aircraft such a B206, you would actually get slightly more than a civilian who logs according to the regs. For a wheeled aircraft such as a UH-60, you'd get slightly less than a civilian counterpart if you have a prolonged taxi to the take off area. So, you might very well have a .1 difference here or there. I logged the same in my civ book as my -12 printout. Lazy I guess.

"H" is simulated and "W" is actual. You'll fly with some that'll log W anytime it's hazy and they can't see the horizon. That's a weak interpretation because it specifically states "aircraft attitude must be determined and controlled using aircraft instruments." In that case you'd have to be "inside." 5 miles and haze, you won't be on instruments to determine your attitude.

Yeah, generally your IP is correct. Most of my friends said their employers just wanted to see a snapshot of your hours and conditions of flight. A 759 close out works perfect for that.

 

[napoleonpp]

Nope you are right about the logging of flight time according to 95-1. That answers my question perfectly. Thanks all for your help! So if the 759 works perfect for that, is there really a point to keeping a personal logbook other than making sure Flight Ops is logging your time correctly?

 

[Velocity173]

Nope you are right about the logging of flight time according to 95-1. That answers my question perfectly. Thanks all for your help! So if the 759 works perfect for that, is there really a point to keeping a personal logbook other than making sure Flight Ops is logging your time correctly?

Depends. If you go by the requirements of 61.51, you need a civ logbook. A 759 or even a -12 won't list location or AC identification. I suppose you could hand write that separately.

Your future employer shouldn't care about that though. They care about total hours and not a thick logbook with a bunch of entries. Look at it as two different things. You have an FAA requirement and an employer requirement. One is about requirements for a certifications / rating / recent flight experience requirements and one is about total time applied to employer requirements. In my case I have a certification (CAMTS) requirement for total flight time that must be met.

While I brought both my civ book to my interview, my interviewer briefly glanced at my close out (759). They don't have time to look through page after page of Army entries. One 759 with everything on one page is really all they want to see. Plus, in helos, all the 135 jobs are dominated by prior military. Your reputation precedes you. They don't need a logbook to know if you're cut out for the job or not.

To be safe I'd keep a separate logbook. At least enter your APART rides once a year to count for the FAA flight review and 3 take off and landings for "recent flight experience."

 

[napoleonpp]

Ok so it sounds like I am off to a good start. I'm logging my actual flight time to the Army Regs. I'm also logging PIC and SIC time per FAA.