Would or How to log this?

Jaybird180 said:
Scenario 3: conditions are 0/0 and you had determined to accept the risk of a 0/0 takeoff but with a recalcitrant engine, like either 1 or 2 above, it ain't happening. You call ATC, cancel your IFR departure clearance and hang it up for the day.

Would you and how would you log the time in your logbook since the airplane moved under its own power with the purpose of flight?
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Why would you put that in your logbook, since you'd have to subtract it out when you apply for a new certifiicate or rating? You didn't move the airplane for the purpose of flight, you moved it for the purpose of determining airworthiness. In the setting of certification experience "flight time" didn't happen. In the setting of crew duty limitations and airline operations it did. Is the Part 1.1 definition applicable to both universes? I'd say yes.

dtuuri
 
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dtuuri said:
Why would you put that in your logbook, since you'd have to subtract it out when you apply for a new certifiicate or rating? You didn't move the airplane for the purpose of flight, you moved it for the purpose of determining airworthiness. In the setting of certification experience "flight time" didn't happen. In the setting of crew duty limitations it did. Is the Part 1.1 definition applicable to both universes? I'd say yes.

dtuuri
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Dave,
#3 is taken in concert with the above 2 scenarios. You didn't know the engine was faulty until you were ready to depart. I've stricken part of your response from the record.
Does the new statement still represent your stance?

BTW- Welcome (?) to the party (which ya coulda been here sooner)
 
Jaybird180 said:
I've stricken part of your response from the record.
Does the new statement still represent your stance?
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I agree (sorta) with Nosehair (love that moniker!) in that the definition of flight time was probably meant to include the takeoff roll, but not taxi time. The reality is that over the years the takeoff roll has been stretched to include the taxi to the runway too. But, if you never took off.... you've got nothing worth logging unless somehow it affects crew duty records.

dtuuri
 
>OK, my favorite pet peeve: people who log hobbs time >as if it were flight time.
>Flight time is time in the air, not taxi and preparation >time for the flight.
>FAR 1.1 defines it as "from the time the airplane >moves under it's own power for the purpose of flight >until it comes to rest after landing."
>Did you land?
>In the spirit of the rule, the time you move for the >purpose of flight is when you have completed your >run-up and decided to take flight. So when you have >been cleared for take-off, or cleared yourself at a >non-towered airport, and taking the runway, then you >are moving forward for the purpose of flight.
>The culture has determined that Hobbs time is the rule, >because that's how we pay on a rental, but it ain't >flight time.
>Just my 2c.
>Old school rules.

Been doing this for forty years and was taught from day one that engine on to engine off. I pay for it. Now for those who want to quibble let me ask you one question.
Why does the FAA allow you to log SIMULATOR time for your license? That is DEFINITELY NOT flight. You as the PIC are required to familiarize yourself with all aspects of the flight. As I fly for a living and my company would LOVE to be able to not pay me for showing up one hour to ninety minutes before a flight to prepare and for 15 to 30 minutes after for "de-brief". When I took my FAA CFI, CFII, MEI instructors rides, the FED said to log time from engine on to engine off because it was for the purpose of flight. We discussed this extensively and the scenario was questioned and I had to answer "what about taxing the airplane for fuel/mx and then back to the hangar?" My answer was it was not for the purpose of flight and he said "Correct".
For those that quibble over .3....I would suggest they go back and redo all of the numbers in your logbook and you will find errors that add to up to that or more over the years. Do you log minutes or tenths? Where do you choose to round up or down if you log tenths?
I submit that no ones logbook is EXACTLY correct after a few years.
Boils down to this.
Me Pay = Tach
You Pay = Hobbs
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Does anyone taxi to/from the runway in an FAA approved simulator?
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Yes, I do. Sometimes it is part of the scenario.

Someone with more knowledge of the approval process can chime in but it is my understanding to be approved for flight training requirements then taxing is part of the process.
 
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MD11Pilot said:
Yes, I do. Sometimes it is part of the scenario.

Someone with more knowledge of the approval process can chime in but it is my understanding to be approved for flight training requirements then taxing is part of the process.
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And since the 2 747's crashing into each other in Tereneif (sp).. My guess is taxiing is more important to test for now...:rolleyes:
 
N801BH said:
And since the 2 747's crashing into each other in Tereneif (sp).. My guess is taxiing is more important to test for now...:rolleyes:
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There the other plane had intent of flying, the other one still wasn't sure! :)
I wonder if the surviving pilot logged that time...
 
mtuomi said:
There the other plane had intent of flying, the other one still wasn't sure! :)
I wonder if the surviving pilot logged that time...
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I wonder if a dead pilot's log can (or should) be filled out by the executor of their estate? (serious question)
 
I know I'm late to the party, and haven't bothered to read the whole thread, but IIRC you can log any time on the ground so long as you had the intent of flight. I log what I get paid for, which is when the prop starts turning to whenever it stops.
 
I'm sure, in the course of human events, if you applied for a commercial pilot position , the person who interviewed you, ( usually a pilot) would really be impressed with your. "Taxi time" ! To the point he would immed. Dispose of your app. As you left the room.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I'm sure, in the course of human events, if you applied for a commercial pilot position , the person who interviewed you, ( usually a pilot) would really be impressed with your. "Taxi time" ! To the point he would immed. Dispose of your app. As you left the room.
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Maybe, maybe not. And are you advocating just logging wheels up to wheels down?
 
If my engine quits can I add a tenth for the glide from 8k feet?
 
I can't believe this is going on 8 pages now. It is 1/10th of an hour. Log it or don't, that's your choice. No one is going to give a flying ---- anyways(pun definitely intended).
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I can't believe this is going on 8 pages now. It is 1/10th of an hour. Log it or don't, that's your choice. No one is going to give a flying ---- anyways(pun definitely intended).
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960.gif
 
If you think anyone is going to audit your logbook and care... Especially as a non-commercial pilot:

189cddc1781597a6de6f9d37ee340275.jpg
 
ja_user said:
If my engine quits can I add a tenth for the glide from 8k feet?
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Hey, that brings back an old, old memory. Back in the day,early 60s, when I was building time for my Commercial, most all instructors were ex-military and we used the military way of logging T.O. time to landing time, which had to be consistent with the Tower's logged times.
Since most of my training was at non-towered airports, the accepted practice was to use tach time. The most you might get taxiing was .05, or 3 minutes, which was within the rounding off to the nearest 5 minutes anyway..
So I discovered that I could get a little more actual flight time (T.O. to landing) by doing a lot of gliding. Good training anyway.
In those days where I was, there wasn't much traffic and in the South, there were many abandoned military training fields in a triangle shape.
I would circle climb to about 5000', pull the mixture, stop the engine and prop, and circle glide down around the triangle shape runways so I was always in position of making one of them, and glide to a landing.
I could get an hour and 15 or 20 minutes of total flight time, and only have to pay for a little less than an hour on the tach.
Not to mention the excellent training that resulted.
Then along came the Hobbs and killed that.
Must be why I hate the Hobbs and meter.
 
Nose hair
I have done the same thing except I climbed to 10000. Added almost .5 that day and yes I was flying. :wink2:
 
EdFred said:
Well, I should have my ATP in a few months then, and a lot cheaper than doing the actual flying, since I only am lacking the total time. I already have all the othr requirements knocked out.
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Awesome! No sense in cheating yourself out of legitimate, loggable time.
 
EdFred said:
That's the standard I use. Take off roll until runway exit, and only if I depart. I don't log aborted takeoffs. I pull the flight time on GNS430 which only starts recording above 30kts.

I don't need to weasel extra hours into my logbook. When I'm with students I note the time when we taxi onto the runway.
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Do you impose this "standard" for flight time on your students? Do you charge them only for "flight time" as defined by you, or for all your time?
 
Drove to the beach, hiked a mile into launch, was too windy to fly, hiked back to my truck. I intended to fly can I log both hikes or just the hike in?:lol:
 
Some of my most hair raising experiences have been trying to taxi at large, unfamiliar airports. If I were to inadvertently turn onto an active runway, you can bet the FAA would say I was operating as captain of the aircraft. To me, that sure counts as pilot in command time in the logbook.
 
Kritchlow said:
Some of my most hair raising experiences have been trying to taxi at large, unfamiliar airports. If I were to inadvertently turn onto an active runway, you can bet the FAA would say I was operating as captain of the aircraft. To me, that sure counts as pilot in command time in the logbook.
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First post.......

Welcome to POA..

:cheers::cheers:
 
LDJones said:
Do you impose this "standard" for flight time on your students? Do you charge them only for "flight time" as defined by you, or for all your time?
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I saw an instructor and student once start up at parking and do God knows what for at least 10 mins, then taxi to runup area and do God knows what for another 20; I'm not exaggerating. I know the student was paying Hobbs for the plane, not sure on the CFI time. I felt worried for his training dollars.
 
N801BH said:
First post.......

Welcome to POA..

:cheers::cheers:
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I don't mean to bring up an older thread, but I wanted to say thanks! Looks like a fun site, and I hope to contribute going forward..
 
Jaybird180 said:
I saw an instructor and student once start up at parking and do God knows what for at least 10 mins, then taxi to runup area and do God knows what for another 20; I'm not exaggerating. I know the student was paying Hobbs for the plane, not sure on the CFI time. I felt worried for his training dollars.
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First timer with a G1000. LOL
 
Unfortunately not. They were in a steam Cherokee 140. I mentioned the extended idle time to the boss while we were chatting and he told me who the CFI was. And I know him. The CFI is a straight-up guy who genuinely likes to fly, not log more hours or run up a student's bill. Otherwise, I would have suspected the student was being fleeced, which is why I mentioned it to the boss in the 1st place.

Since is bears on this discussion, is the student allowed to log the idle time as dual flight training received, since it met the requirement of being conducted in an airplane.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Unfortunately not. They were in a steam Cherokee 140. I mentioned the extended idle time to the boss while we were chatting and he told me who the CFI was. And I know him. The CFI is a straight-up guy who genuinely likes to fly, not log more hours or run up a student's bill. Otherwise, I would have suspected the student was being fleeced, which is why I mentioned it to the boss in the 1st place.

Since is bears on this discussion, is the student allowed to log the idle time as dual flight training received, since it met the requirement of being conducted in an airplane.
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:confused: Of course, there is a high likelihood that he was receiving instruction in that time frame.
 
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