Words I haven't used in many years...

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geek on the Hill
...flew off my tongue, I confess, while removing and reinstalling the front heater blower in my old minivan. :eek:

The shop wanted $600.00 to fix it (the van cost me $800.00), so being your garden-variety idiot, I decided I would do it myself and save. :yes: And save I did -- unless you want to count having lost two days of serenity and more skin off my knuckles than I care to think about.

But the experience did give me an opportunity to ponder some questions to which I hadn't, until now, devoted much thought, such as:

:dunno: Why, pray tell, don't automobile engineers consider the fact that someone, at some time, will have to do maintenance on the vehicles they design?

:dunno: Why did the three hex screws (two now: one disappeared) that hold the fan housing in the plenum chamber have to be placed at precisely the WORST possible positions in terms of actually being able to get a tool on them?

:dunno: For that matter, why did they use screws at all? A band-type clamp would have worked fine. So would a design in which the fan twisted into the plenum and was secured by a latch. Or even a bail arrangement, like an old-fashioned Mason jar. But NOOOOoooooo. They had to use three screws, and place them behind enough other stuff to make them impossible to get to by any manner a normal mind could devise. :incazzato:

By the second day, I regretted undertaking the project. But still I pressed onward, still guardedly confident that there had to be SOME way to get the blasted screws out.

And then my friend , who owns an auto parts store, came to the rescue with the world's smallest 8mm box wrench -- one whose handle was bent at a certain angle that allowed me to remove the screws (albeit about 1/32nd of a turn at a time) until they fell and got lost in the rolled-back carpeting. :cryin:

Still, a feeling of triumph overcame me as I heard them fall; followed by an even greater sense of bafflement as I pondered the question of why they needed screws that were 3/4 inch long to hold together two pieces of .032 sheet metal. :dunno: Was it just to insure that I would have to move that tiny wrench in its even tinier arc a sufficient number of times to give me carpal tunnel syndrome, all while lying inverted with my head hanging down from the passenger seat, blood rushing to what was still left of my brain?

I took the motor into the house, removed the squirrel cage (which, of course, was seized to the shaft), and inspected the motor. The armature was covered with schmutz, but there seemed no way to open the motor housing short of, perhaps, dynamite. But I was able to cut a strip off a Scotchbrite pad, hold it in place with the handle of a tablespoon, and rotate the shaft enough to clean the armature.

Changing the brushes was out of the question because I couldn't figure out how to open the housing to get to the brushes. I did, however, find what looked like a lubrication port, behind a piece of rubber that I pried out. So I applied a couple of drops of oil in there, and a couple on the bearing on the squirrel cage side, cleaned and re-attached the squirrel cage, and went back to car. :fcross:

I plugged it in, turned on the heat, and -- it worked! :thumbsup:

The re-installation, however, required some additional dis-assembly (don't ask me why -- it just did), and one of the three screws disappeared into a black hole that had formed under the dashboard. Screw it, I said. Or don't screw it, actually. Two screws were enough. The slight hiss of air escaping will be drowned out by the cacophony of other noises the old van makes, and there's still enough air blowing through the vents -- at medium speed -- to part my hair and make any toupee-wearer nervous. :hairraise:

Now I just have to figure out why the rear heater blows ice-cold air. the shop told me that could wind up being an expensive repair. I think I'll save some money and just do it myself... :D

-Rich
 
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Usually if you can't get at something it's because you haven't taken enough stuff off the car yet. If you don't disassemble something in the order in which it was assembled it can be a *****. The problem is that disassembling to that point can sometimes be hours of work.
 
The car company really doesn't care about maintenance. They want the car assembled as inexpensively as possible.
 
That was great Rich. Beautifully written! I enjoyed reading about it and any amature who has worked on a car can feel your pain and share your sense of ah ha you &*%!#% I have conqured you.
 
This goes back years but I would still like to meet the jackhandle who did this to me: 1970's era GM car, busted water pump. Found out the water pump fit over studs in the block. The studs were held fast by being screwed in place and then crimped. Once the pump was installed over the studs, nuts and lockwashers held it in place.

My nemesis the jackhandle also crimped the nuts onto the studs. I had to drill the studs out. Now go back to the OP and read again all the comments about access! I had to remove the radiator....

-Skip
 
I dunno Rich I seem to have none of those issues when repairing a car. All I do is drive it to the dealer and pay him to fix it. Way worth my peace of mind!! ;)
 
I'm gifting my college age son with my old minivan with instructions to scrap it when it next needs a costly repair.
 
You think that's bad, Rich, buy a Mitsubishi. :D

Over the past 10 years I've worked on cars from Asia, Europe, and North America (with manufacturing bases on probably every country). Indeed, the Jaguar shop I worked at especially was rated R for excessive language. One of the first lessons I learned was how to curse at a car to make the bolts come off easier. It never worked, but it made me feel better.

Indeed, part of the problem is that cars are built for assembly, not for disassembly and maintenance. What ends up happening is that the engineers all live in vacuums, where you may have 20 or more engineers working on systems and sub-systems for a particular car. What ends up happening is it gets all compiled in a chaotic manner so that it will eventually go together (and probably efficiently) but don't ever consider taking it apart.

This weekend I worked on my motorcycle some (easy) and my Mitsubishi (less easy). But the good part is that I got everything completed.

The moral of this weekend's work: When using a welder, don't just wear welding goggles. The intense heat and light from the welding torch will actually burn your face much like the sun. I now look like I've become a Florida lobster.
 
Try removing the very front nut off a C150 O-200 oil sump. besides being in a cramped location, it looks like as an afterthought they decided to put the exhaust bracket under that nut, effectively blocking any remaining access to it. Had to build a special tool.....which allows one to remove it with multiple tiny throws of the 'wrench' - only takes a half hour now. Still having night sweats over it.

I think the current problem however is that everything is designed on cad, and no one is really aware of the interactions with the adjacent components.
 
I think the current problem however is that everything is designed on cad, and no one is really aware of the interactions with the adjacent components.

Actually, it's worse than that. Because of CAD, engineers are now able to make up entire assembly drawings detailing the whole vehicle. This means that they can tell that they should have exactly 1mm clearance between that stud and that fan housing, so it will fit. :incazzato:

Typically engineers who are mechanics are better about this than those that aren't, but I have seen it go both ways. I've had many an argument with design engineers trying to explain that yes, it does physically fit in the location, but is impossible to get at once installed in the aircraft. "But why? You've got a whole 1/4" to get at it!"

Still, in my experience aircraft ain't got nuttin' on a Jaguar for maintenance nightmares... ;)
 
Actually, it's worse than that. Because of CAD, engineers are now able to make up entire assembly drawings detailing the whole vehicle. This means that they can tell that they should have exactly 1mm clearance between that stud and that fan housing, so it will fit. :incazzato:

Typically engineers who are mechanics are better about this than those that aren't, but I have seen it go both ways. I've had many an argument with design engineers trying to explain that yes, it does physically fit in the location, but is impossible to get at once installed in the aircraft. "But why? You've got a whole 1/4" to get at it!"

Still, in my experience aircraft ain't got nuttin' on a Jaguar for maintenance nightmares... ;)

Add Range Rover maintenance to that list. I didn't realize what peace and serenity was until that truck was sold. Owning one does help in understanding that extreme love and hate do coexist.
 
The car company really doesn't care about maintenance. They want the car assembled as inexpensively as possible.

Actually, design for service is carrying a lot more weight than it used to. But in general, front wheel drive in general and mini-vans in particular suck to work on.
 
My guess at an explanation: Everything was accessible on the assembly line before they lowered the body onto the frame and lifted the engine up into it...or not. Maybe you learned an appreciation for those workers in Detroit.
 
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This happens because Americans will buy the cheapest thing with the most features without regard for future costs. Hence, the reason we sign two-year contracts for cell phones, cars suck to maintain, and Maytag is only a name now. :frown2:
 
You need to understand how cars are built. first thing down the conveyor belt is the heater core assembly, then the rest of the car is assembled around that. with a few exceptions the heater assembly is one of the most distasteful tasks . Dave
 
This was one part of the Genius of the Model T in that most any idiot could work on it easily and there ended up being so many of them that often you literarlly could find spare parts lying/parked next the road.

It is also the reason I sold my minivan and now have 2 vehicals that have engine/drive systems that are nearly identical to my 1927 Model T.

I changed a clutch a few weeks ago. It took me about 9 hours. The shop quoted my 500 labor to do it, so I esentially made $50/hr doing it. There wasn't anything difficult about he job other than I hadn't done it on this particular vehical before. Next time it will probaly take 6-7 hours to change it.

Brian
 
Sounds like it's a Ford. And you can't find screws lost in the carpet? Probably because they bounced off the carpet into a vent. Nope, haven't done that before.
 
The shop wanted $600.00 to fix it (the van cost me $800.00)
Sounds like the usual for owners of piston twins, just a few zeroes tacked onto the numbers.
-- Pete
 
Sounds like it's a Ford. And you can't find screws lost in the carpet? Probably because they bounced off the carpet into a vent. Nope, haven't done that before.

Close. Mercury Villager.

-Rich
 
Add Range Rover maintenance to that list. I didn't realize what peace and serenity was until that truck was sold. Owning one does help in understanding that extreme love and hate do coexist.

Ain't that the truth. I had a '98 Range Rover 4.6 HSE. I loved driving it, hated working on it (and did it ever need work). The best part about it was that I never had to drain the oil on it since it leaked so much. The most memorable repair on it was when I had to weld the window motor brackets because they were so flimsy they flexed every time you put the window up or down and several eventually cracked.

Even more humorous on the extreme love and hate side was that it went away with the ex. I almost shed a tear when the Range Rover left. ;)
 
When did this engine-mounted from below stuff start? How many vehicles have the frame lowered onto the engine now? Unless you have a pit, it is pretty much impossible to get the engine out of some cars in a backyard anymore.
 
My plane's mechanic says its retribution, all because, long ago, a mechanic had an affair with an engineer's wife. :ihih:
 
When did this engine-mounted from below stuff start? How many vehicles have the frame lowered onto the engine now? Unless you have a pit, it is pretty much impossible to get the engine out of some cars in a backyard anymore.

It got popular with front wheel drive - but I recall doing this with a RWD Ford Aerostar also.

You can set the engine / trans / etc. on the ground and pick up the front of the car with an engine hoist. Entertaining, but do-able.
 
Close. Mercury Villager.

-Rich

We finally let our '94 Villager go this fall. Pretty much everything on that van had been replaced, except the engine and transmission. I'm sure there are another 200Kmiles in those, but the rest of the vehicle was terminal.
 
I just did the head gasket in my wife's mk1 MR2. Much like building a ship in a bottle.
 
I just did the head gasket in my wife's mk1 MR2. Much like building a ship in a bottle.

Try pulling the radiator on an 85 motorhome while on the road sometime. The only way to do it is to climb into the bottle with the ship.
 
Last year I did the heater core on my '97 F-150. The dealer wanted 10 hours labor at $100/hour. The whole dash has to come out to get to it.
It was a nightmare, but I did it in <8 hours, with a helpful step by step Word document with pictures I got off a F-150 forum.
I figure in the past 5 years the internet forums have saved me enough on repairs that my internet service is paid for for the next 5 years.
 
You can set the engine / trans / etc. on the ground and pick up the front of the car with an engine hoist. Entertaining, but do-able.

Any tips?
Can you lift the front end only? Lifting points? How high are we talking?
Sounds like potential for mayhem.
Tks
 
It got popular with front wheel drive - but I recall doing this with a RWD Ford Aerostar also.

You can set the engine / trans / etc. on the ground and pick up the front of the car with an engine hoist. Entertaining, but do-able.

I changed the engines in quite a few Volkswagen Beetles that way (the old Beetle, with the air-cooled engine in the rear). I used to collect them.

The procedure is simple: Slide an old tire under the engine; let the air out of the rear tires until the engine is sitting on the old tire; unbolt the engine; disconnect the fuel line, electrical harness, and so forth; jack up or hoist the rear end of the car; grab the old tire and slide the engine out under the rear bumper.

To install the replacement engine, do the above in reverse.

I think my record for a VW engine change was a little over an hour. I knew guys who could do it in 45 minutes, though.

-Rich
 
Any tips?
Can you lift the front end only? Lifting points? How high are we talking?
Sounds like potential for mayhem.
Tks

Yes, you only need to lift the front - a lot less weight to lift that way. Lifting points will be what you find. And, it has to go up pretty high - you have the engine / trans sitting on the crossmember and it has to clear the front of the car - three or four feet. You can block it up back behind the front wheel space as you lift to make it seem less unsafe.

And, I did say that it is entertaining...
 
I don't like this new method. Who do I contact to ensure they change all cars back to the old way of lifting the engine out the top?
Thank you.
 
I don't like this new method. Who do I contact to ensure they change all cars back to the old way of lifting the engine out the top?
Thank you.

The Engineering Product Development team at Studebaker-Packard Corporation is waiting for your call...
 
The moral of this weekend's work: When using a welder, don't just wear welding goggles. The intense heat and light from the welding torch will actually burn your face much like the sun. I now look like I've become a Florida lobster.

That Racoon Face is the mark of a real welder!

And to the OP, sorry for your troubles - my Miata is pretty easy to work on but I've not found any car yet where the heating system (particularly the heater core) isn't a PITA to work on - usually involving significant disassembly of the dash.
 
I had to work on a heater core in an '85 Mustang many years ago. The service manual said "Step 1: Unbolt the steering column. Step 2: Remove dashboard". Then it got worse.

Ugh. Of course, there were plent of leftover screws, too. What a pain.
 
Best one ever for me was our 85 Bonneville with Chevy 305. Heater core was designed by someone who had suffered heater core PTSD. It was a breeze to remove! Open hood, loosen/remove about a dozen bolts on top of the HVAC module, lift module, remove hoses, lift core out; lather, rinse, repeat.

Since then, I too have suffered from HCPTSD on other vehicles, but that one car was a breeze to remove/replace.
 
I've not found any car yet where the heating system (particularly the heater core) isn't a PITA to work on - usually involving significant disassembly of the dash.
The "67 Thunderbird. #1. remove air-cleaner. #2 remove 2 -5/16 screws.(above & behind ) #3 remove two hose clamps . #4 remove entire heater core. .............. most the rest suck :dunno: Dave
 
I'm convinced that there is no "easy" job on a car. If it's supposed to be easy, it will be complicated by the inability to remove whichever part you're trying to replace. Especially up here where the salt from the roads rusts everything exposed. I'm not sure why I still try screwing out nuts and bolts when I know it's inevitable that I'll be drilling out at least half of them that have rusted together.
 
Here's where the Ford engineers decided to start building the 1997 F-150. They pretty much built the truck around the heater core.
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i'm confident the olds alero started down the assembly line with just the intake manifold gaskets in a jig.
 
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