TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's funny. How 'bout this one:
"Fort Worth Center, Mooney 223BC, wid'you."
"Mooney 223BC, Fort Worth Center. Gesundheit!"
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With You
- Thread starter Terry
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That's funny. How 'bout this one:
"Fort Worth Center, Mooney 223BC, wid'you."
"Mooney 223BC, Fort Worth Center. Gesundheit!"
HPNPilot1200
En-Route
Heh... Yeah. I wasn't ever gonna say anything to Approach.
BTW, our TRACON is in the tower, next level down from the tower guys. Their high-tech system for departures consists of the tower clearing a plane for takeoff and then dropping their strip into one of two PVC pipes marked "East" or "West" where it falls down and lands in a basket next to the appropriate controller downstairs.
Yes, the drop tubes in the up and down facilities are primitive, but so cool. If you think about it, they've been doing it like that since the start of air traffic control basically.
Yup, they can't actually see your beacon code that easily in case you're wondering (unless you're squawking the wrong code, then they'll see what you're squawking). They'd likely use the ROUTE key to find out your current squawk if they wanted to see it. Usually the VFR code banks don't show up outside of the facility they're used in. We have them here in New York too though each area of NY TRACON has a different sub-set since there are so many VFRs.
Hey, technical is good. Us know-it-alls have to learn something now and then too ya know.
My pleasure.
Steve
En-Route
I make the same call up when switching frequencies whether its the next ARTCC sector or the next TRACON sector. who what where
I usually use flight following when not IFR, too, to increase the chances of getting a quick response when approaching congested airspace.
It's easy to tag pilots who fly regularly just by their radio presence.
I usually use flight following when not IFR, too, to increase the chances of getting a quick response when approaching congested airspace.
It's easy to tag pilots who fly regularly just by their radio presence.
sba55
En-Route
I never got into using "with you", but unfortunately, I can't get away from starting every call after a hand-off with "And" as in "and Oakland Center....)
-Felix
-Felix
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rpadula
En-Route
Nah...just sounds British!How about "Tally Ho!"
Hmmm, maybe that's why the FAA wants to implement ADS-B: since each aircraft is individually addressable, the controller can just hit a button and send us an electric shock when we say something annoying.sba55 said:
-Rich
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In busy airspace, crisp radio communications improve your chances of getting what you want, in short-cuts and other considerations.
In the airport pattern situation, there are two controllers - that's why they are using two frequencies - to split workload, but they are sitting next to each other.
One of the reasons I qualified my answer with "usually." The context of the communication may suggest that more information is in order. In your example of divided Class C sectors, I'd probably do a standard "level at" call-in.
AirBaker
Pattern Altitude
How about "Tally Ho!"
Oh come on.. that one is fun to say.
sbonek
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just last night I was reading an article in AOPA Flight Training about this very subject. And they went through all of the biggies and why shouldn't use them, "Tally Ho", "No Joy", "Any Traffic in the area..." and wouldn't you know it, "With You" was there as well.
I didn't see any mention of the ubiquitous "Fish Finder"
drizzt76
Pre-takeoff checklist
I been really working on tighting up my radio comm. I've totally dropped the "with you" and made an effort to tighten up my radio calls. It really worked today requesting flight following. Center was hopping and I made my call sounding like a pro and no problem....got a transponder code. Every call that was sloppy she responded "No time for VFR." More likely I fell in at a right time and it got busy but it feels right to get one right every once in awhile. I'm thinking you never really "master" the radios but if you don't try will always be a novice...even with a comm. rating.
deafsound
Line Up and Wait
...and also some of the worst, as has been posted on this site.
Anyway, the whole "with you" thing is stupid. They should just make it part of standard phaseology and get it over with. Like someone mentioned here, when you have a controller who says, "change to my freq on 123.45", it sure would be easier to just say, "cessna 12345 with you" than stumbling trying to figure out what to say (cessna 12345 on 123.45?--- i dunno). I believe that the whole "with you" thing is just a passing thing for us pilots to nit pick about.
"With you"....it takes less than a second to say, and people like to say it...so what?
BTW, I try not to say it, and I cringe when I hear other pilots say it, but I think this is a silly debate.
Also, at an uncontrolled airport, saying, "cessna 12345 clear the active" also drives me nuts, but I know what they mean, so I don't care. I prefer saying, "cessna 12345, clear all runways".
For the record, I have never flown cessna 12345.
Only a few years ago, the word "google" only meant 1 followed by 100 zeros. Now it means something else too. The english language changes all the time, as do other languages...
I know that some of you will fire back at me saying things about int'l carriers and the importance of them using standard phraseology, and I think that it's important for us all to know what the standard phraseology is and be able to use it, but we shouldn't get miffed if someone says "with you" or whatever, as long as the point is getting across.
OK, bash away at me....I'm ready.
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Jason W (FlyNE)
Nah, no bashing...but I will comment.
I think that switching to "my frequency" is one of the places that it almost makes sense to use it. Even then, what is wrong with "Approach, Cessna 345 level 8000"? Or, as you said, "Approach, Cessna 345 on 123.45". That one second isn't a lot of time, but it can be filled with something useful...so why wouldn't you? As I said, you've hit on the only real example that "with you" can be used to convey information.
The thing that I've noticed about banishing it from my flying is that it makes me think before I get on the radio. I actually stop to come up with useful information to give to the controller when I click the mic. What I found (and this may have just been me) is that I was using "with you" to fill a void because I wasn't really ready to talk by the time that I pushed the PTT. It went from "Podunk tower, Cessna 12345 is with you...uh...4000" to "Podunk tower, Cessna 12345, 4000 inbound 17" If you were busy on the other end, wouldn't you appreciate that call just that much more? It's not about being wrong, it's about being better.
Also, as to the "clear of the active" that you used in your example. I have much less of a problem with "clear of the active" than I do with "taking the active". At least if you're clearing the active I know that if I'm heading towards a runway, chances are much lower that you'll be sitting on it.
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Tim
Line Up and Wait
Any smart guys please advise
is it three thousand five hundred or 3.5??????
is it three thousand five hundred or 3.5?????? 
SkyHog
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Everything Offends Me
Any smart guys please advise
Lol - its "Tree tousand fife hundred."
Also - there's no such thing as "Flight Level" anything below 18,000ft. That is one of my HUGE pet peeves (thankfully, I've only heard it a few times). If you've got a British Accent, I'll let it slide.
SkyHog
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I never got into using "with you", but unfortunately, I can't get away from starting every call after a hand-off with "And" as in "and Oakland Center....)
-Felix
Strangely enough, I never had a problem with "and." I don't use it, but it doesn't bother me, and the reason is because I read that the phrase "A-OK" was born of the need to add an additional syllable to ensure that the radio transmission was actually sent. "And" goes with that in my head.
poadeleted20
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One assumes that the reason you let it slide is that the transition level in England is only 4000 feet (7000 in Scotland, thanks to Ben Nevis). Note that the transition level between feet and FL is set nationally based on the highest object in the area.
silver-eagle
En-Route
I'll comment also. I fly out of an uncontrolled airport. I always add "clear of the active xx." since with or without an asos/windsock/unicom, 2 seconds later, there is some guy asking "Hey PODUNK traffic, what runway are you using?". That additional second I spend might save someone their next transmission.Nah, no bashing...but I will comment.
....SNIP....
Also, as to the "clear of the active" that you used in your example. I have much less of a problem with "clear of the active" than I do with "taking the active". At least if you're clearing the active I know that if I'm heading towards a runway, chances are much lower that you'll be sitting on it.
"Boston Approach, Warrior 12345, with you flight level 1. Any traffic please advise. Clear of the active 6, Podunk!"
sbonek
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I think the theory with using "clear of the active" at an uncontrolled airport is that there really is no "active" runway... any runway could be the active...
so instead of "clear of the active xx", it should just be "clear of xx"...
I agree. And don't forget to add those other ones - "ummmm," and "errrr."
How about, "Cessna 12345"? (Jason, I disagree that "with you" conveys useful information even in this situation. I can't picture ATC hearing "Cessna 12345" and responding, "Are you with me?" OTOH, I =can= envision the controller working multiple frequencies and asking for confirmation of which frequency you are on, which is why I usually add the frequency)
Yep, adding meaningless phrases that provide no information whatsoever to the PCG is =definitely= the way to go any time you find pilots who come up with something to fill the void left by the inability to say something intelligent.
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Jeff S KDTW
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Glad you included this, Ron. That was the post I was looking for and would have included in this thread if it was missing.
Greebo
N9017H - C172M (1976)
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Retired Evil Overlord
If you're referring to:
Washington Center, N9107H, Level seven thousand five hundred"
Level means maintaining level flight and is proper phraseology.
You are supposed to say either:
Level <current altitude>
or
<current altitude> climbing/descending <target altitude>
As I recall, you are supposed to give your callsign, your vertical direction, and your altitude, in order to confirm with ATC that they are seeing the same altitude that you are.
Of course then there's this story from someone we both know (I liked it so much I saved it):Glad you included this, Ron. That was the post I was looking for and would have included in this thread if it was missing.
==============================
I stopped saying "with you" cold turkey (it had slipped into my pilot speak) when I heard Philly Approach talking to a GA pilot late one night.
Cessna 123: "Philly Approach, Cessna 123 with you, two thousand five hundred over Woodstown, Mike".
Philly: "Cessna 123, Uniform is NOT the current information, squawk three zero three one and my name's Mike too how do you do."
(there was a stunned silence as the Cessna tried to figure it all out)
Cessna 123: "Ah Philly, I didn't say Uniform. Um, I have the current information - what was that squawk?"
Philly: "Actually Cessna 123, you did tell me you had Uniform - I have it on tape - the word 'with' precedes the ATIS information code - you want to try again".
(More silence and then maybe a realization)
Cessna 123: "OK Philly, Cessna 123 with...shoot...over Woodstown with information Mike".
Philly: (Emphatic) "Good Evening Cessna 123! I see you over Woodstown, two thousand three hundred and Mike is current, squawk three zero three one and say intentions".
==============================
Jeff S KDTW
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Hehe
Love it and remember it.
Love it and remember it.
deafsound
Line Up and Wait
Wow...there's good use of airtime. ATC could've just shut up and saved himself a few transmissions if he didn't feel the need to be a wise guy.
Kinda funny tho'.
Yeah, but ATC knows the big picture - how busy the sector is and whether he can waste a few minuted of airtime being a joker.
K
KennyFlys
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Controllers win if the pilot perfects his transmission.
poadeleted20
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We all win if everyone perfects their transmissions.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
But then what would we argue about on aviation fora ?
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tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
which headset should i buy?
K
KennyFlys
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Be a proper pilot and get high!
K
KennyFlys
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The one which least affects blood flow to the brain.
SkyHog
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
Exactamundo!! That's why I let it slide, because I assume it was a slip of the tongue after flying a bunch in another place.
Nope, I'm talking "Albuquerque Center, Bugsmasher 123, leaving Flight Level One One Zero for Flight Level Zero Niner Zero"
You don't hear it often, but you hear it.
Greebo
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Retired Evil Overlord
Ew.
No I've never heard it.
If I did, I'd probably (being the consummate smart ass) pipe up with "When did they lower class A space to 9 thousand?
Or suggest they change to the local altimeter setting instead of 29.92 (which "flight level" implies)