Windows 8?

[RJM62]

NOT true!

Apple has screwed up before, plenty of times - And usually the "fanboys" are the first to call them out on it. But, they're generally good enough to not screw up really bad, so us fanboys will maybe deal with a small inconvenience for a short time while Apple fixes their mistake and we all move on.



User Experience is Apple's thing... And not Microsoft's. Apple pays attention to these things a lot better. Microsoft, as you pointed out, is arrogant enough to think that it simply doesn't matter. That's where they're wrong, and that's why Win8 is in trouble.

You obviously are not a true fanboy.

-Rich

 

[supernovae]

User Experience is Apple's thing... And not Microsoft's. Apple pays attention to these things a lot better. Microsoft, as you pointed out, is arrogant enough to think that it simply doesn't matter. That's where they're wrong, and that's why Win8 is in trouble.

Windows 8 in trouble? How so?

Metro ui is leaps ahead of ios.. ios has absolutely no consistency, even android is starting to steal metro elements.

Metro has 5 gestures, side by side multitasking and intuitive swipe controls that are the same for every app.. we should give credit where credit is due, Ms took a bold risk and modernizing its ui, pretty bad most people write it off without using it or trying to learn its simple navigation structure.

 

[RJM62]

Windows 8 in trouble? How so?

Metro ui is leaps ahead of ios.. ios has absolutely no consistency, even android is starting to steal metro elements.

Metro has 5 gestures, side by side multitasking and intuitive swipe controls that are the same for every app.. we should give credit where credit is due, Ms took a bold risk and modernizing its ui, pretty bad most people write it off without using it or trying to learn its simple navigation structure.

The point, for those of us for whom computers are just tools rather than toys, is that we don't want to re-learn how to use them. For me, it's an annoyance. But for a business with ten thousand employees, it's a considerable expense.

It's like OpenOffice.org, which I referenced in another post. For many businesses, it could serve all of their SDA needs at zero acquisition cost. But there would be implementation costs in the form of users who can zip their way through MS-Office blindfolded, but would have to learn OpenOffice.org. I personally think the learning curve is so shallow that all but consummate idiots could make the transition pretty quickly, but apparently I'm in the minority.

When I was doing tech support, one of the things that annoyed me about Windows was that every version seemed to move things around slightly in the Control Panel, for no apparent reason. So when someone called with a question, the first thing I had to ask was what version of Windows they were running -- which for some users, was akin to asking them the CPU voltage. I got answers like "Windows Office," "Gateway," "Internet Explorer," and so forth, when what I wanted to know was the OS version.

And why did I want to know this? So I could guide them to a place in the Control Panel that has existed in every version of Windows back to Win95, but which MS chose to move around every time just for the sheer joy of annoying me.

So now they come out with Metro, and I'm like -- HOLY CRAP! Why in the world would any business buy this, when it's going to cost them thousands of dollars in productivity loss for their users to learn how to do the same things they've been doing for years? Maybe the interface is simple, but how long will it take the users to learn that simple interface?

Multiply that figure by the number of users, add up the hours, factor in the work that's not getting done while they're re-learning, and you will have the total cost of migration. Then you'll understand one of the reasons why many businesses are still buying 7.

And Microsoft did this... why? So computers can look like phones?

It's idiocy. People who look at computers as mere tools are not impressed by this sort of thing. It just gets in the way.

It's like those annoying survey boxes that pop up on so many Web sites that I visit lately, asking if I want to complete a questionnaire before I peruse their site for whatever thing I went there to buy. It's in my way. It's an obstacle to what I want to do. And nine times out of ten, I express my annoyance by clicking out of the site and taking my business elsewhere.

-Rich

 

[kgruber]

Windows 8 going further down the tube. Idiots!!

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/08/samsung-electronics-exec-blames-windows-8-for-PC-decline/

 

[tlglenn]

I use the Win7-like UI on my Win8 desktop computer.

 

[gkainz]

I use winduhs to launch putty so I can get to my real work environment of *nix servers.
If my job was hanging drywall, I don't want to learn a new drywall screw gun every Monday.

 

[CT4ME]

This sort of thread drives me crazy
Unfortunately, 80% of the population will make their mind up based on what they read here (or elsewhere), instead of just trying Windows 8. And then, at their next cocktail party, they'll be the expert saying "I"ve heard...blah blah blah" about Windows 8. I've seen it over and over and over. For almost 35 years, I've tried to chase down the "I've heard" comments. They all go back to "a friend of a friend", or a single article they read, or maybe even a single headline (like the Engadget link).
Don't be like the idiot at the office water cooler who claims to know everything, but doesn't read beyond the headlines. Try Windows 8 yourself. And be prepared to flounder for a few minutes. If you don't like the Tiled/Metro interface, then don't use it. There are several free programs that will hide it and give you back your standard interface... after a 3-click 20 second installation.
Nobody enjoys change, but it is inevitable. Get over it. I've had hundreds of clients with thousands of PCs. Over they years we've gone through countless iterations of DOS, Windows, WordPerfect, 123, and Word, etc. We've argued over the need for color, graphics, mice, laser printers, flat screen monitors, and dual screens. I've spent many hours helping crying secretaries switch from Selectrics, to Wordstar, to WordPerfect, and to Word.
Like I tell them... Get over it... you're not old enough to consider retirement and the change is happening.
It's not like you have a choice... really! You can either get over it and have a nice outlook and life, or you can have a whiny, arguing, miserable life (and make everyone around you miserable).
So what are your alternatives? Switch to Linux? Yeah right... if you can't handle the little changes in Win8, you have NO chance of adapting to Linux. Even Linux devotees have given up thinking Linux has any chance on the desktop.
Switch to MAC? Maybe, but the adjustment to the new interface is WAY more than the tiny changes in Win8... and then there's the fact that MAC is not very business friendly. And MAC has a history of changing things rather often, leaving you with obsolete hardware/software, and the need to CHANGE. Remember... this all started because you didn't want to change. Oh yeah, and the "MAC tax", Apple stuff is generally noticeably more expensive.
Keep your old Windows stuff? Yup, many will do this very effectively. We still have many clients running XP (yikes, with a few in Win98, and even a Win3!). Unfortunately, this solution is self-limiting. Computers will die. New software won't be compatible with old Operating Systems. You'll be missing out on improvements in technology and productivity. New hardware won't work. Eventually, you'll have to change.
Change to a New Platform? 'Not really an option. First, remember, you started this all by not wanting change. New Platform = lots of change. But there isn't really anything new, or on the horizon, that replaces the good ol' PC. Tablets are great, but don't cut it for many needs... Surface hardware is promising, but there's that Win8 thing again.
Many people have successfully done what we call "the leapfrog" upgrade. They "skip over" a version or two. The skip from XP to Win7 made a lot of sense for some. The skip from MS Office 2003 to Office 2010 was a good move.
For whatever reasons, Windows 7 seems to have gotten universally good reviews, and now has 45% of the market. And yet, to read here, some would tell you it sucks. 12 months after its introduction it only had 15% usage. Windows XP took 2 years to gain 33% acceptance, and still has 39% of the market. But mainstream support for XP ended in 2009, and all support/updates ends next year. At that time, XP will become a serious security risk for all individuals and businesses.
Windows 8 has been out for 4 months. Give it some time. Except for the *optional* Metro/Tile interface, it's pretty much the same as Win7. There are some speed ,technical, and security improvements. It's no big deal.
Or stick with Windows 7.

 

[Palmpilot]

So what are your alternatives?...

Keep your old Windows stuff? Yup, many will do this very effectively. We still have many clients running XP (yikes, with a few in Win98, and even a Win3!). Unfortunately, this solution is self-limiting. Computers will die. New software won't be compatible with old Operating Systems. You'll be missing out on improvements in technology and productivity. New hardware won't work. Eventually, you'll have to change...

True, but in the case of Vista, Microsoft came to their senses and replaced it with an OS that was more acceptable to the markeplace. Unless Microsoft is planning to abandon the market for desktop upgrades, they need to pay attention to the data in post #48.

 

[CT4ME]

Vista and ME weren't THAT bad.. hell, they weren't around long enough to have significant updates or acceptance. When Microsoft let the word out that their successors were in the pipeline, they were doomed. Had the come up with a "Release 2" strategy, they probably would have done OK.
I'll bet there is a update or option from MS, soon, that allows the bypass of the Tile/Metro interface.

 

[Palmpilot]

Vista and ME weren't THAT bad...

I never tried ME, but my newest desktop system came with Vista, and I didn't think it was that bad either. At least it had the option of using the classic start menu. I still set it up for dual boot with XP though. And when it died, I installed a drop-in replacement for the power supply, which even had higher output capability.

I tolerate Windows 7 on my notebook because it was the only OS available, and I don't have the need to run legacy games on it. The Windows 7 start menu reminds me too much of DOS, but I can see why the OS was successful.

I haven't tried Windows 8 because I don't have any need to. I even bought a second Windows 7 notebook as a backup to make sure I don't get forced into it when the current one dies. I'm just not that fond of learning new user interfaces.

 

[CT4ME]

And, for the record, I've never been a fan of OS upgrades (ie, putting a new version on top of an old one). It's where most of the "I've heard..." rumors start... some idiot trying to upgrade a 6yr old computer with the latest/greatest OS, then whining because drivers aren't available for his 6 yr old scanner.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Windows 8 in trouble? How so?

Sales and adoption are extremely slow.

Metro ui is leaps ahead of ios.. ios has absolutely no consistency,

And here is where you lose all credibility. iOS is the king of consistency. Read through Apple's iOS Human Interface Guidelines. It's 219 pages, and all about consistency.

Ms took a bold risk and modernizing its ui, pretty bad most people write it off without using it or trying to learn its simple navigation structure.

The problem is that they force users to learn it right away, without the chance of having the "old way" available for a time so that they can continue to be productive.

For example, you can launch apps on the latest version of Mac OS X just like you can on an iPhone via the "Launchpad" - Or you can continue to use OS X the same way you always have.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If you don't like the Tiled/Metro interface, then don't use it. There are several free programs that will hide it and give you back your standard interface... after a 3-click 20 second installation.

Forcing the user to install a 3rd-party program just to be able to be productive is a terrible idea when it comes to UI/UX design.

and then there's the fact that MAC is not very business friendly.

How so? Apple does have a long history of just screwing over enterprise, but if you're just using their desktops/laptops/tablets and not their servers, there's not really any difference.

And MAC has a history of changing things rather often, leaving you with obsolete hardware/software, and the need to CHANGE.

Sounds like one of your hated "I've heard"s. Apple releases a new OS every year or two, similar to MS. They keep things consistent enough that if you keep upgrading every major or every other major version, you won't take any hit in productivity or compatibility for the most part. Hardware is also changed at a similar pace to the PC industry players, though since there's only one on the Mac side of things, you don't have to worry about buying a machine today and having a better one available tomorrow. (Even if Apple does release a new one tomorrow, they'll either give you some $$$ or let you trade in for the new one at no charge for a couple weeks after you buy.)

Oh yeah, and the "MAC tax", Apple stuff is generally noticeably more expensive.

Also noticeably better equipped.

Since 1997 or so, every time I've bought a new computer I've configured the equivalent Dell/HP/whatever to compare prices. Yes, Apple's base prices are higher than the cheapo PC's, but they include a lot of functionality that isn't included on those base PC's. So, the end result is that up until my latest machine, EVERY TIME there was less than $100 difference between my Mac and the equivalently-equipped PC, and usually Apple was actually on the cheaper side! The reason that my latest machine was more expensive is that I got a MacBook Pro with Retina Display, which is expensive and unavailable on the PC side of things. (My screen resolution is 3840x2400.)

 

[Palmpilot]

And, for the record, I've never been a fan of OS upgrades (ie, putting a new version on top of an old one). It's where most of the "I've heard..." rumors start... some idiot trying to upgrade a 6yr old computer with the latest/greatest OS, then whining because drivers aren't available for his 6 yr old scanner.

I don't see anything unreasonable about wanting drivers for a six year old scanner. Of course, if software companies don't want to sell to people in that position, that's a business decision they're free to make.

 

[RJM62]

Vista and ME weren't THAT bad.. hell, they weren't around long enough to have significant updates or acceptance. When Microsoft let the word out that their successors were in the pipeline, they were doomed. Had the come up with a "Release 2" strategy, they probably would have done OK.
I'll bet there is a update or option from MS, soon, that allows the bypass of the Tile/Metro interface.

Vista was... not unusable, other than that the UAC being buggy. If you disabled that, it was usable enough.

Me was a horror show.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

And, for the record, I've never been a fan of OS upgrades (ie, putting a new version on top of an old one). It's where most of the "I've heard..." rumors start... some idiot trying to upgrade a 6yr old computer with the latest/greatest OS, then whining because drivers aren't available for his 6 yr old scanner.

Upgrades tend to be preferred by users who don't want to spend days or weeks reinstalling all their software and restoring all their data. If they're well planned in advance, they usually go well. The keys are to check compatibility first, and then get the "old" system in primo condition before running the upgrade.

The only one I ever refused to do (after the first two I tried went south and I had to restore from backups) was the Me to XP upgrade. That was an absolute nightmare. After those two attempts, I insisted on fresh installs for anyone else running Me who wanted to upgrade to XP.

-Rich

 

[BiffJ]

Really, this is the same noise we heard when MS introduced Office 2007 with the new ribbon interface. It really isn't a big deal, once you get used to it and eventually you will need to move to the new product, because the old one won't be sold or supported (i.e. the manufacturers won't even be making drivers for it to run on their hardware). Technology moves on and eventually you will need to learn something new. I highly suspect that a lot of the people complaining about the new interface haven't even given it a fair try, yet. Win 9x was the biggest piece of c**p that MS ever produced, and has been gone for over 12 years, which tells me you don't update very often. Even Vista was better than 9x and XP was out for a long time before that and was considered a good, stable OS (shipped end of 2001).

Like I said, I don't need the upgrade. As for ME and vista I didn't use either of them. 98 and XP worked fine til the microsoft gumbies figured out the newer crap sucked. Then they came up with Win 7. The old stuff does what I need. I don't use office 2007, I can't find anything and why should I screw around trying to learn a new system I don't want or need. I don't need the upgrade that it doesn't give me. Its not an upgrade or improvement, its just different. It doesn't do anything I need that the older one doesn't. As others noted and I agree with: I'm not a computer weenie, I'm a computer user. I use the thing to help in my work not to make more of it. I don't want to relearn all this crap all over again when I should be getting work done. Maybe its fine for you to spend some extra time figuring out how to make it go but I don't want to waste the time. I might end up writing by hand again or looking for ribbon for my Selectric but I don't care. It works ok and windows 8 doesn't. Win 7 will work for a while longer and microsoft will either figure it out or someone else will.


Frank

 

[supernovae]

Forcing the user to install a 3rd-party program just to be able to be productive is a terrible idea when it comes to UI/UX design.

Nonsense.. Forcing no other option is a terrible idea. Show me ONE area where metro is "unproductive". The fact that windows is open to customizations/enhancements is great, and ironically the times when apple sells the most hardware are the times when the hardware have been root-kitted so people can install all of their mods that fix the glaring productivity wholes in the core iOS functionality.

Also, for OSX some of the top selling programs are interface enhancements as well..

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Nonsense.. Forcing no other option is a terrible idea. Show me ONE area where metro is "unproductive". The fact that windows is open to customizations/enhancements is great,

Yes - But again, forcing the use of third-party software to do what MS should have already done is horrible UI/UX design. Customization is wonderful, and if a third party can do something NEW and different, that's great - But the core OS should be the gold standard and should enable the user to get good productivity out of it for everyday uses without a learning curve and without further futzing.

and ironically the times when apple sells the most hardware are the times when the hardware have been root-kitted so people can install all of their mods that fix the glaring productivity wholes in the core iOS functionality.

Where do you come up with this stuff? The times when Apple sells the most hardware are... Every time they introduce a new product. There has NEVER been an additional spike in sales once the jailbreaks come out. And what do you see as the "glaring productivity holes in the core iOS functionality?"

Also, for OSX some of the top selling programs are interface enhancements as well..

Enhancements, yes - But not a one of them changes the entire way the interface works so that you can get something done on it. The first one you could even consider as an interface enhancement is StatsBar at #12, which simply does the same thing that the included Activity Monitor (similar to Task Manager on Windoze) does, except you access it via the menu bar instead of an app. The next one is Growl at #23, a notification manager - And the system has one of those built in now, very similar to Growl. Those are the only two in the top 100 that could even be considered to be "interface enhancements" and they're both very minor and specialized, not at all changing things at the level we're speaking of here and not at all required to be productive right away on a new OS.

 

[EdFred]

An Apple Fan Boy vs an MS Fanboy.

This is better than an RV overhead break thread.

 

[Palmpilot]

A Windows 8 fan starts to see the problems with it:

http://www.zdnet.com/will-90-percent-of-users-always-hate-windows-8-7000012348/?s_cid=e539

I forsee a new slogan becoming popular: "We are the 90 percent"!

 

[Palmpilot]

"Five ways to save Windows 8":

http://www.zdnet.com/five-ways-to-save-windows-8-7000012369/?s_cid=e539

 

[Palmpilot]

"Windows 8 has yet to lift off, according to PC market fifth-place holder Asus, while Samsung has canceled a launch in Germany altogether, citing lack of interest in the platform":

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-acceptance-levels-still-not-good-says-asus-7000012203/

 

[RJM62]

"Five ways to save Windows 8":

http://www.zdnet.com/five-ways-to-save-windows-8-7000012369/?s_cid=e539

That's probably the best article I've read on the subject.

It's baffling, and a bit sad, because 8 is actually a phenomenal OS under the hood. But it's pretty clear that a very high percentage of users hate the Metro interface (or, at least, are not interested in having to spend time learning something new that provides little or no additional functionality for them).

The baffling part is that MS seems to prefer letting this essentially excellent OS go the way of Me and Vista, rather than just restoring the blasted Aero interface that everyone seems to love as an option. It's really a head-scratcher.

WinMe was bastardized crap and deserved to die. Vista was... mediocre, but not horrible. Still, few tears were shed over Vista's demise.

But 8 isn't crap. It's not even mediocre. It's good. In fact, it's excellent. It deserves respect. Is MS really going to let it die over the lack of the %*&U*^%$ Start Menu, just to prove some wacked-out point about change?

-Rich

 

[Palmpilot]

At this point, my dream OS would be the XP user interface with Windows 7 functionality (or Windows 8 functionality, if it's as good or better).

As one anecdotal data point about people whose primary interest in computers is to get things done, on my last trip to the denstist, I noticed that he still uses XP in his work.

 

[Palmpilot]

I find myself wondering if MS has bought into the myth of the "post-PC era." It seems like people are assuming that a reduction in demand for new desktop systems is synonymous with desktop systems going away completely. If that's really what people are thinking, it seems like a pretty sweeping assumption to me.

 

[supernovae]

Yes - But again, forcing the use of third-party software to do what MS should have already done is horrible UI/UX design. Customization is wonderful, and if a third party can do something NEW and different, that's great - But the core OS should be the gold standard and should enable the user to get good productivity out of it for everyday uses without a learning curve and without further futzing.

Show me one area where it is lacking.. seriously.

Where do you come up with this stuff? The times when Apple sells the most hardware are... Every time they introduce a new product. There has NEVER been an additional spike in sales once the jailbreaks come out. And what do you see as the "glaring productivity holes in the core iOS functionality?"

Iphone 5 and 4s broke sales records the weekend ios 6.0.1 was jailbroken, it once again leap frogged android sales..

Enhancements, yes - But not a one of them changes the entire way the interface works so that you can get something done on it. The first one you could even consider as an interface enhancement is StatsBar at #12, which simply does the same thing that the included Activity Monitor (similar to Task Manager on Windoze) does, except you access it via the menu bar instead of an app. The next one is Growl at #23, a notification manager - And the system has one of those built in now, very similar to Growl. Those are the only two in the top 100 that could even be considered to be "interface enhancements" and they're both very minor and specialized, not at all changing things at the level we're speaking of here and not at all required to be productive right away on a new OS.

Uhh, there are a lot of enhancements available when you jailbreak your phone that you can't do otherwise. Not just enhancements, but getting basic features such as tethering back without paying another 600/year to your carrier..

 

[supernovae]

I find myself wondering if MS has bought into the myth of the "post-PC era." It seems like people are assuming that a reduction in demand for new desktop systems is synonymous with desktop systems going away completely. If that's really what people are thinking, it seems like a pretty sweeping assumption to me.

Microsoft knows the desktop is just getting longer legs than what it used to have. MS didn't kill any desktop functionality and they added a lot to make desktops more efficient and capable. DX11.1, HyperV, Fastboot, Disk Management and other features were upgraded.

Post PC era is overhyped, but its also meaningless.. in some regards its less "intel" and more "arm" while others thing its more "touch" or whatever you want it to be.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Show me one area where it is lacking.. seriously.

The ability to be productive without having to learn a significantly different user interface. That seems to be the only big beef anyone has with it, but that's a deal-killer for a lot of people and companies.

Iphone 5 and 4s broke sales records the weekend ios 6.0.1 was jailbroken, it once again leap frogged android sales..

I'd love to know where you got that data. The only thing I can find on Google is an informal poll conducted by @pod2g on Twitter, which is clearly not going to be an impartial audience - People follow @pod2g because they're interested in jailbreaks. In addition, Apple doesn't release sales data for anything less than a fiscal quarter at a time except for the occasional opening-weekend press release. So, there's no way you or anyone else would have any data to back this one up.

Uhh, there are a lot of enhancements available when you jailbreak your phone that you can't do otherwise. Not just enhancements, but getting basic features such as tethering back without paying another 600/year to your carrier..

This is an MS-vs-Apple discussion - I was speaking of the Mac OS, not iOS. And if you're talking Cydia, again, by definition those are people who want to mod things because they've already modded their phone via jailbreaking. Of course their top-selling apps are gonna be interface "enhancements."

 

[RJM62]

Uhh, there are a lot of enhancements available when you jailbreak your phone that you can't do otherwise. Not just enhancements, but getting basic features such as tethering back without paying another 600/year to your carrier..

I'm having a hard time understanding your line of thinking that it's perfectly okay to have to do something unauthorized to your operating system in order for it to be useful... but at least you're consistent across platforms.

-Rich

 

[steamee]

So much drama. You'd think they were closing control towers or something...

When I had to do some work with iPad recently I found many of its actions were non-intuitive to discover. I found myself edge swiping to try and bring up menus that I've been imprinted with using Win 8. Tech can, will, and should be different. I don't want one way of doing things until the end of time. So you're either going to spend your life being annoyed by every little change or just figure it out and go about your day. If you don't like change then hold out as long as you can. Why do people go out of their way to point out how they'll never leave Win7 and how it's the perfect Windows and then bash Win 8? If Win 7 is already so good then just keep using it and leave the rest of us dabblers be.

I like Windows 8. It's not perfect. I think a lot of the built-in apps (e.g. mail, calendar, xbox music) are weak implementations. The store seems to still be flaky in consistently holding a network connection. But that's the big bonus with windows....I don't have to use those! I'm a software engineer and artist with a wide range of computer use cases from programming to painting. I use all the same programs I used in Win 7. Sometimes I discover some nifty Windows 8 apps as bonus. I enjoy the bold new direction MS is trying. I support content over chrome design philosophy. There are tangible performance improvements.

My wife could care less about computers and couldn't tell between XP, vista, and Win 7. I upgraded her Vista box to Windows 8.

She didn't get the full screen menu thing at first, but once I explained it was just a super big launch screen I never heard anything about it again. Her computer is faster (same hardware) and she can find her pictures easier (since photos amalgamates the photos library into one stream). Once she got confused by the full screen file system navigation ("What is this?") but I purposely didn't say anything right away just to see what she'd do and she figured it out in a few seconds. 98% of her computer usage is storing photos, browsing the web, and doing MS Office work.

Ironically, I think it's people with a lot of computer background that are the biggest muckrakers on this.

 

[ArtPileggi]

Ironically, I think it's people with a lot of computer background that are the biggest muckrakers on this.

They are the ones that use the computers the most and for a wider variety of applications so they spending time learning the quirks for all of their applications every time Microsoft wants to market a new toy gets old very quickly.

 

[CT4ME]

This is an MS-vs-Apple discussion -

Actually, this was a Windows 8 discussion...

 

[supernovae]

The ability to be productive without having to learn a significantly different user interface. That seems to be the only big beef anyone has with it, but that's a deal-killer for a lot of people and companies.

Still nonsense.. If you have an iphone and android or an ipad, you already learned something drastically different.. why stop learning windows 8?? Metro is:

5 new gestures.

Swiped down - menu
Swipe Up - menu
swipe from left - multi tasking
swipe from right - charms
Drag down - close app

Once you learn those gestures, then you can half-swipe from left to snap to left or to task switch apps and do other things as well.

Unified Settings, Unified Search, Unified Share - make sharing/uploading/configuring/searching the same.. for every app

I'd love to know where you got that data. The only thing I can find on Google is an informal poll conducted by @pod2g on Twitter, which is clearly not going to be an impartial audience - People follow @pod2g because they're interested in jailbreaks. In addition, Apple doesn't release sales data for anything less than a fiscal quarter at a time except for the occasional opening-weekend press release. So, there's no way you or anyone else would have any data to back this one up.

6 million people jail broke their phones the day the app was released, its estimated over 30 million devices are jailbroken. LOTS of people never upgraded from the 4 to the 4s or 5 because of iOS never being jailbroken.

Once the jailbreak was released, Android lost marketshare and iOS grew..

This is an MS-vs-Apple discussion - I was speaking of the Mac OS, not iOS. And if you're talking Cydia, again, by definition those are people who want to mod things because they've already modded their phone via jailbreaking. Of course their top-selling apps are gonna be interface "enhancements."

I wasn't talking about Mac OSX at all really..

but if even then, look at some top 100 lists for OSX and they're usually desktop/UI enhancers.

BTW, I use OSX, iOS, Android, Windows 8, Linux, Solaris, WP7, WP8.. I just don't see any reason to pretend Windows 8 is any harder (its not) nor is it any more restrictive/prohibitive or complicated.. (its not..)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

5 new gestures.

Swiped down - menu
Swipe Up - menu
swipe from left - multi tasking
swipe from right - charms
Drag down - close app

Do these work without a touchscreen? If so, how? Can I use them on the trackpad, and if so how many fingers do I need to have down to distinguish between these gestures and regular mouse movements?

Unified Settings, Unified Search, Unified Share - make sharing/uploading/configuring/searching the same.. for every app

About freaking time they got these things that Mac OS X has had for years.

Once the jailbreak was released, Android lost marketshare and iOS grew..

An assertion for which you still have no data.

I wasn't talking about Mac OSX at all really..

but if even then, look at some top 100 lists for OSX and they're usually desktop/UI enhancers.

I did look at the top 100 for OS X, there were the two that I talked about in the previous post.

 

[supernovae]

Do these work without a touchscreen? If so, how? Can I use them on the trackpad, and if so how many fingers do I need to have down to distinguish between these gestures and regular mouse movements?

Yes, the gestures work on trackpad too.

About freaking time they got these things that Mac OS X has had for years.

So has windows, just not adopted by force.. search was always in task bar since what, windows vista?

An assertion for which you still have no data.

Look at the sales figures.. doesn't matter anyway, we're just slinging mud at each other. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All I can do is show that for the past few quarters android was out growing iPhone and voila, iphone gets root kit and guess what, it now grew at a faster pace than android. rocket science not needed.

 

[Palmpilot]

So you're either going to spend your life being annoyed by every little change or just figure it out and go about your day.

It's easy to trivialize the concerns of others.

It might not be the best business model though.

 

[RJM62]

Look at the sales figures.. doesn't matter anyway, we're just slinging mud at each other. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All I can do is show that for the past few quarters android was out growing iPhone and voila, iphone gets root kit and guess what, it now grew at a faster pace than android. rocket science not needed.

Which kinda proves my point, doesn't it? Especially when combined with your previous information regarding the percentage of apps that are GUI enhancers or mods.

Think about it: iPhone sales skyrocketed when the jailbreak allowed users to customize the device in ways that Apple wouldn't allow!

Doesn't that prove my point? People want their devices to look and work the way they like -- not the way Apple, Microsoft, or whomever dictates that they should work. Similarly, in the end, it doesn't matter how much you, Microsoft, or whomever extolls the virtues of Metro. If a user doesn't like it, or if it causes businesses to lose some productivity, then they're going to avoid it for as long as they possibly can.

This is why I think MS is being idiotic. Give users a freaking choice, and more of them will buy the otherwise-excellent Windows 8. I would run out right now (as in, as quickly as I could get my hat on my gloriously gray-haired head), drive downstate to MicroCenter, and buy a brand-new, high-end laptop with 8 -- if I could use it the way that *I* WANT TO, without having to install a kludge that may or may not cause problems down the line.

Until that happens, I will hold out as long as possible, and keep my money in my pocket.

-Rich

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I see similarities to Vista. Remember when the computer retailers finally relented and began offering XP again. Some folks think they can just cram things down the market's throat. Dell is now letting it be known Win 7 is still available. Almost every IT guy I know is saying to wait if at all possible. I don't need mobile features on my desk top.

Best,

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Yes, the gestures work on trackpad too.

Good to hear... But how does it know it's a gesture and not just moving the mouse pointer?

Look at the sales figures.. doesn't matter anyway, we're just slinging mud at each other. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All I can do is show that for the past few quarters android was out growing iPhone and voila, iphone gets root kit and guess what, it now grew at a faster pace than android. rocket science not needed.

That's what I'm saying, the data does not support your assertion. iOS outgrew Android in Q1 2013 because the iPhone 5 was released - You're probably reading it based on calendar quarters. Apple's fiscal year begins in October (actually Sept. 30 this year). So, Q1 2013 had the highest iPhone sales ever because of their consistent growth plus the bump from introducing a new model plus the bump from it being a holiday quarter.

The jailbreak for iOS 6 was released in early February, which is part of Q2 2013, for which sales data has not yet been released. So there is no way you can make the assertion that the jailbreak availability made iPhone sales increase, because the data is not even out yet because the quarter isn't over.