Windows 8?

supernovae said:
Don't need a new computer for 8, it runs really well on old stuff.. in fact, it breathes new life into old systems. The upgrade was 40 bucks but has since gone up..

BUT, if you don't need any of windows 8 features, that is fine to. I wouldn't force anyone to upgrade for the sake of upgrading.. At the same time, just because you don't upgrade doesn't justify it not being worthy to others :)

I think people have been misleading you about windows 8.. if you run vista, it will work in 8. as long as you stick to pcs..
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Yes, Vista was a pig and took forever to boot. Win 8 is a much better experience. Vista is also locked down tighter than Fort Knox, so installing or configuring anything is painful.
 
John221us said:
Yes, Vista was a pig and took forever to boot. Win 8 is a much better experience. Vista is also locked down tighter than Fort Knox, so installing or configuring anything is painful.
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Locked down is a relative expression. Just try removing applications you don't want from a Verizon smart phone. Again I don't know weather the problem is Android, HTC, Verizon, or some combination of the three making me keep a list of worthless application many of which require service charges to run.
 
ArtPileggi said:
Locked down is a relative expression. Just try removing applications you don't want from a Verizon smart phone. Again I don't know weather the problem is Android, HTC, Verizon, or some combination of the three making me keep a list of worthless application many of which require service charges to run.
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Rootin' is easy.
 
John221us said:
Wow, I retired my dye sub years ago. Today's archival inks are pretty darn good and that dye sub is expensive to keep supplied.
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I use it at events where a fast, stable, durable print in 60 sec. is critical. No ink jet I've found can accomplish that.
 
LDJones said:
I use it at events where a fast, stable, durable print in 60 sec. is critical. No ink jet I've found can accomplish that.
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I had a couple of them and they did produce great prints. It was getting harder and harder to get the supplies, though and they aren't cheap.
John
 
EdFred said:
Mom got a Win 8 computer. I hate it. I want a new laptop, but there's no way I'm buying one with Win8 or Crapple OS. I like Win7. I have 64-bit pro, and I'm 0-power to full functionality in 13 seconds.
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I just ordered a new Lenovo laptop, Series T, with Windows 7, today. Went with the solid state HD. Smoking! :yesnod:
 
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Apparently WIndows 8 is being adopted on desktop systems at even lower
percentages than Vista was during corresponding time periods:

win8vsvista-600x365.png


Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed

A local computer store guy told me that the Microsoft Surface was selling well, but this report alleges that Windows 8 is not doing well in the mobile and tablet markets:

Now, in a market where NPD expects tablets to out sell notebooks by year's end, neither Windows 8 nor its cousins Windows RT and Windows Phone 8 even appear on NetApplication's mobile and tablet reports for February 2013. How bad is that? Android 1.6, with is tiny 0.02% of the market, does make the list.​
 
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Palmpilot said:
Apparently WIndows 8 is being adopted on desktop systems at even lower
percentages than Vista was during corresponding time periods:

win8vsvista-600x365.png


Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed

A local computer store guy told me that the Microsoft Surface was selling well, but this report alleges that Windows 8 is not doing well in the mobile and tablet markets:
Now, in a market where NPD expects tablets to out sell notebooks by year's end, neither Windows 8 nor its cousins Windows RT and Windows Phone 8 even appear on NetApplication's mobile and tablet reports for February 2013. How bad is that? Android 1.6, with is tiny 0.02% of the market, does make the list.
​
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Win 7 had a lot of pent up demand and did really well. It does seem like the marketing is missing on Win 8 and the pent up demand was satisfied by Win 7. Historically, in business, a desktop OS refresh is done with a hardware refresh, so it is highly dependent on hardware refresh rates. Most of the Win 7 machines out there are less than 2 years old at this point. When Vista shipped, I think XP had been out something like 5 years and there was quite a bit of hardware refresh happening. That said, the traditional desktop is being rethought in a lot of situations and being replaced by either virtual desktops or mobile platforms. I am not sure that it is really fair to do a one to one comparison at this point. We will see.
 
John221us said:
Win 7 had a lot of pent up demand and did really well. It does seem like the marketing is missing on Win 8 and the pent up demand was satisfied by Win 7. Historically, in business, a desktop OS refresh is done with a hardware refresh, so it is highly dependent on hardware refresh rates. Most of the Win 7 machines out there are less than 2 years old at this point. When Vista shipped, I think XP had been out something like 5 years and there was quite a bit of hardware refresh happening. That said, the traditional desktop is being rethought in a lot of situations and being replaced by either virtual desktops or mobile platforms. I am not sure that it is really fair to do a one to one comparison at this point. We will see.
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I agree that the situation is not strictly comparable between then and now, but I consider the above chart noteworthy because it is a comparison to Vista, which was generally considered to be a failure in the market place, not to Windows 7.
 
Windows 8 still isn't largely available on hardware where it shines.. It's no wonder why MS created surface and surface pro. The only other hardware company that hasn't completely screwed the pooch is Lenovo and they're happily making healthy profits.

Windows 8 was never created to replace Windows 7 btw, it was created to stop the bleeding to tablets but it offers everything 7 does and then some.. Microsoft is still on course to have 600+ million Windows 8 licenses sold by year end which creates a healthy market for developers to embrace.
 
I bought my wife a new laptop with Windows 8 she hates it.
She only uses it for playing game (Pogo & Facebook)
You can not not play Pogo games with internet explorer. I had to download Crome and then it only works in Desktop mode.
Then some facebook game with internet explorer will only work in Desktop mode and other will work in either.
Plus when when in Metro internet explorer like to close and restart sometime.
So she wants me to install XP or Win 7
 
ron22 said:
I bought my wife a new laptop with Windows 8 she hates it.
She only uses it for playing game (Pogo & Facebook)
You can not not play Pogo games with internet explorer. I had to download Crome and then it only works in Desktop mode.
Then some facebook game with internet explorer will only work in Desktop mode and other will work in either.
Plus when when in Metro internet explorer like to close and restart sometime.
So she wants me to install XP or Win 7
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The touch browser has a white-list for Flash games, you can modify that whitelist yourself and play games there or just open up the Desktop browser where there are no flash whitelist controls in place.

The touch browser/experience has the whitelist so that flash sites can't kill your battery on portable devices..

You can skip installing XP/7 and just install a start bar replacement, but it just sounds like you need a little time to understand 8 and figure things out. i'm bemused by the fact you don't want to run the desktop browser but the solution you suggest is to go back to the desktop of xp/7. The experience would probably get worse since 8 has a lot of under the hood improvements for performance, bootup, sleep so on and so forth..
 
so... if I'm considering a Surface Pro instead of a full-fledged laptop for college for fall this year?...
 
Wolven0ne said:
so... if I'm considering a Surface Pro instead of a full-fledged laptop for college for fall this year?...
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I have always thought that the tablet is the perfect form factor for college. Very portable and very functional. It sounds like a great idea! Maybe get a dock for it back in your room, to make writing papers easier (monitor and real keyboard).
 
supernovae - I loved Win 7 from day one. I have used Solaris, Linux, OSX and every MS pc OS. Win 8 is the hardest transition I have gone through. I am a fan of unifying the OS across devices. I admit I have spent limited time on 8. Still, it has been a long time since I have had to dig through articles to gain a basic functioning level. Here are my frustrations.

1)I want organized programs in folders rather than tiles across many screens. I hated it when iOS didn't have folders and still wish iOS had folders within folders.

2) I use a mouse on a 24" monitor. I do NOT want programs to open full screen. When I click on a video file I want it open in a window so I can watch while I do other work. That is why I have a 24" monitor. The concept of one app taking the full screen is reasonable on a 10" tablet screen but not a 24" monitor.

3) My system is on the older side. Win 8 seems fast but programs lock up. It is too the point that I have to keep the task manager window open all the time to kill and restart processes. Win 7 was rock solid.

4) Alt F4 has become my new friend. What a lame way to kill a program.

5) Because of the lack of a start menu I find myself pinning more programs to the task bar and putting more things on the desktop. I used to keep the desktop free of stuff.

You keep mentioning the tablet experience. Where the complaints seem to be coming from are PC's that have large screens and no touch input.
 
peppy said:
5) Because of the lack of a start menu I find myself pinning more programs to the task bar and putting more things on the desktop. I used to keep the desktop free of stuff.
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Try one of the free programs that puts the start menu back, and bypasses the Tile interface. Classic Shell or Iobit's Start Menu for Windows 8. Best of both Worlds!
My favorite Windows 8 keystroke: Windows-X
 
CT4ME said:
Try one of the free programs that puts the start menu back, and bypasses the Tile interface. Classic Shell or Iobit's Start Menu for Windows 8. Best of both Worlds!
My favorite Windows 8 keystroke: Windows-X
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Thanks. Since I just have 8 on one machine so I can learn it I have been trying to learn the "Windows 8 Way" before customizing things lest I miss some cool logic as to how things are supposed to work. I may resort to your suggestion however if I don't discover that I am missing something.
 
John221us said:
I have always thought that the tablet is the perfect form factor for college. Very portable and very functional. It sounds like a great idea! Maybe get a dock for it back in your room, to make writing papers easier (monitor and real keyboard).
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I would disagree in college you're creating a lot of content, IMHO tablets are for consuming content.
 
bartmc said:
I would disagree in college you're creating a lot of content, IMHO tablets are for consuming content.
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And I respectfully disagree with you. They have good battery life (better than most laptops) are unobtrusive sitting on your lap during a lecture and are capable of voice recording and even video. You can use them to take hand written notes using an app and easily organize, store and send the notes as a PDF. The Surface Pro in question has an i5 processor and will run any Windows app, as well. If you need a larger monitor and keyboard (and mouse), you can have those in appartment/dorm room.
 
supernovae said:
The touch browser has a white-list for Flash games, you can modify that whitelist yourself and play games there or just open up the Desktop browser where there are no flash whitelist controls in place.

The touch browser/experience has the whitelist so that flash sites can't kill your battery on portable devices..
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And this is something easy for the average use to do right :mad2:
I will Gogole how to do it and give it a try.

i'm bemused by the fact you don't want to run the desktop browser but the solution you suggest is to go back to the desktop of xp/7..
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I said what my wife wants not what I plan on doing. I have no problem running the Desktop browser and that is what she is doing.
 
peppy said:
Thanks. Since I just have 8 on one machine so I can learn it I have been trying to learn the "Windows 8 Way" before customizing things lest I miss some cool logic as to how things are supposed to work. I may resort to your suggestion however if I don't discover that I am missing something.
Click to expand...

That is kind of what I am doing. Trying to learn the system before just going back to the "clasic" way
 
John221us said:
And I respectfully disagree with you. They have good battery life (better than most laptops) are unobtrusive sitting on your lap during a lecture and are capable of voice recording and a even video. You can use them to take hand written notes using an app and easily organize, store and send the notes as a PDF. The Surface Pro in question has an i5 processor and will run any Windows app, as well. If you need a larger monitor and keyboard (and mouse), you can have those in appartment/dorm room.
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All my computing was when I got back home. Even today's tablets would be insufficient for that. I needed xwin32 access to to the irix and solaris boxes, needed to run MASM, electronics workbench, autocad, maple, mat lab, mathematic, gcc, Borland C++ etc... Most lectures were pointless and I write so sloppy on paper there's no way chicken scratch on a tablet would be legible.
 
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bartmc said:
All my computing was when I got back home. Even today's tablets would be insufficient for that. I needed xwin32 access to to the irix and solaris boxes, needed to run MASM, electronics workbench, autocad, maple, mat lab, mathematic, gcc, Borland C++ etc... Most lectures were pointless and I write so sloppy on paper there's no way chicken scratch on a tablet would be legible.
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I guess it depends on your major a little, but I use an iPad for notes at work and it works great. Back when I was in college, I had to do all nighters in the computer lab, when classes weren't running. Then my dad bought a 300 baud Hayes modem ($500 in the early 80's) and I somehow got access to the dial in number (they didn't hand it out), but I still had an instructor that wanted to see your punch cards (this was even obsolete then). Times change and technology moves on.
 
John221us said:
I have always thought that the tablet is the perfect form factor for college. Very portable and very functional. It sounds like a great idea! Maybe get a dock for it back in your room, to make writing papers easier (monitor and real keyboard).
Click to expand...

My son has a laptop and iPad, but uses tablet most during classes. He really likes the Surface and thinks it might serve both needs.
 
bartmc said:
All my computing was when I got back home. Even today's tablets would be insufficient for that. I needed xwin32 access to to the irix and solaris boxes, needed to run MASM, electronics workbench, autocad, maple, mat lab, mathematic, gcc, Borland C++ etc... Most lectures were pointless and I write so sloppy on paper there's no way chicken scratch on a tablet would be legible.
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My kid uses a mini Bluetooth keyboard that serves as a case for the iPad. Works well for his needs.
 
I have one. Win 8 is like vista. A disaster. Win 7-64 for me. Sigh.
 
bbchien said:
I have one. Win 8 is like vista. A disaster. Win 7-64 for me. Sigh.
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That's my opinion, too, but only because of the interface. I actually like what's under the hood. I just hate the experience; and really out of principle more than any other reason, I hate the idea of having to install someone's kludged "fix" on a brand-new computer just to make it vaguely resemble every other Windows computer I've used for the past 18 years.

What MS sees as improvement, I see as annoyance. The Metro interface adds nothing in the way of functionality for me. It just adds another layer of crap I have to get out of before I can do what I need to do. I use Windows for the various components of Adobe CS, and very little else. I have no need, desire, nor intention to download, purchase, or install any "apps."

I also think it's idiotic to default to full-screen views on a desktop system. I use 17-inch laptops and external 22+ inch monitors because I want BIG screens, so I can have multiple windows open. On a phone, sure, it makes sense to open everything full-screen. The display is tiny. On a desktop or laptop, opening every window full-screen by default is idiotic and annoying.

Eventually I'll be forced to "upgrade," but I'm hoping that by then, MS will come to its senses and provide a native option to use a "classic" GUI and do away with the nauseating Metro interface, so I don't have to install kludges to make the computer behave like I want it too.

This is more a matter of principle for me than anything else. I know that I can work around the things about Win-8 that annoy me. But I won't give MS my money until I'm either forced to, or MS comes to its senses and allows users to choose continuity of user experience, without having to install third-party "fixes" that may cause complications down the road.

If MS wants to offer users the option to make their computers look like phones, that's fine with me. But make it an option. Some of us still prefer that our computers look like computers; and on the very day that MS realizes that and gives me that option, I will buy a Win-8 computer.

-Rich
 
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For those of us old fuddy duddy types who don't own a touch screen and really don't like the system its a bad thing. I don't swipe and I like my keyboard. I can type and I don't text. I run things like autocad, solidworks, excel and word, use firefox or chrome for browsers and don't give a damn about super cool apps. Looks like microsoft isn't leaving much in the way of options for us. . . actually no options. Progress is great and all but some things don't need to be screwed with. Windows 7 actually works pretty well and allowed me to update from 98. Vista sucked bad. I'd buy a new laptop with 7 on it but no way I'll buy into the load of crap that is windows 8. Don't need it, don't want it, won't deal with it.

Just my opinion.

Frank
 
BiffJ said:
For those of us old fuddy duddy types who don't own a touch screen and really don't like the system its a bad thing. I don't swipe and I like my keyboard. I can type and I don't text. I run things like autocad, solidworks, excel and word, use firefox or chrome for browsers and don't give a damn about super cool apps. Looks like microsoft isn't leaving much in the way of options for us. . . actually no options. Progress is great and all but some things don't need to be screwed with. Windows 7 actually works pretty well and allowed me to update from 98. Vista sucked bad. I'd buy a new laptop with 7 on it but no way I'll buy into the load of crap that is windows 8. Don't need it, don't want it, won't deal with it.

Just my opinion.

Frank
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Really, this is the same noise we heard when MS introduced Office 2007 with the new ribbon interface. It really isn't a big deal, once you get used to it and eventually you will need to move to the new product, because the old one won't be sold or supported (i.e. the manufacturers won't even be making drivers for it to run on their hardware). Technology moves on and eventually you will need to learn something new. I highly suspect that a lot of the people complaining about the new interface haven't even given it a fair try, yet. Win 9x was the biggest piece of c**p that MS ever produced, and has been gone for over 12 years, which tells me you don't update very often. Even Vista was better than 9x and XP was out for a long time before that and was considered a good, stable OS (shipped end of 2001).
 
Yeaaa, what he said.
It's always taken a couple of years for any OS changes to be accepted, especially by business. Sometimes, if there are numerous changes, the OS gets a bad rap and is replaced before it gets there. Then the press proclaims the replacement is "what it should have been to begin with", and all the lemmings tell their friends how great new one is...
Any software developer who's been successful has a heavy burden to bear... their old customers want everything to be compatible with the past, and not have too many changes... while they're expected to make the product better and incorporate all the latest tech changes and trends.
It's funny, the Apple/Mac crowd is different... Apple can come up with new products/software that are barely compatible with the past, or not at all, and the Apple Fan Boys don't seem to mind at all.
 
CT4ME said:
Yeaaa, what he said.
It's always taken a couple of years for any OS changes to be accepted, especially by business. Sometimes, if there are numerous changes, the OS gets a bad rap and is replaced before it gets there. Then the press proclaims the replacement is "what it should have been to begin with", and all the lemmings tell their friends how great new one is...
Any software developer who's been successful has a heavy burden to bear... their old customers want everything to be compatible with the past, and not have too many changes... while they're expected to make the product better and incorporate all the latest tech changes and trends.
It's funny, the Apple/Mac crowd is different... Apple can come up with new products/software that are barely compatible with the past, or not at all, and the Apple Fan Boys don't seem to mind at all.
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Apple could package deer manure and sell it as chocolate drops, and their fanboys would argue that it was better than Godiva. So what?

What we're talking about here is a user interface. Microsoft can make the user interface look however they like without affecting the underlying system. So why force that particular change on users -- especially considering that Win-8 sales have been lukewarm, at best?

When WinXP came out, I had to hire part-timers to keep up with all the clients who wanted to upgrade from 98 / Me. Why? Because XP was a good, stable OS that was vastly different from 98 under the hood, but still maintained continuity of user experience. That also was the reason NT became so popular: It was a much better OS than the DOS-based versions of Windows, but it felt the same.

MS is making a mistake here, and they're too arrogant to realize it.

-Rich
 
John221us said:
Really, this is the same noise we heard when MS introduced Office 2007 with the new ribbon interface. It really isn't a big deal, once you get used to it and eventually you will need to move to the new product, because the old one won't be sold or supported (i.e. the manufacturers won't even be making drivers for it to run on their hardware). Technology moves on and eventually you will need to learn something new. I highly suspect that a lot of the people complaining about the new interface haven't even given it a fair try, yet. Win 9x was the biggest piece of c**p that MS ever produced, and has been gone for over 12 years, which tells me you don't update very often. Even Vista was better than 9x and XP was out for a long time before that and was considered a good, stable OS (shipped end of 2001).
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Well, we're what 5-6 years into ribbon now and I still hate it as much as I did on day one. I'm still warming up to BOB and eventually I suppose ME will grow on me. In other words, Microsoft has taken a swing and missed before. I do miss Clippy.
 
bartmc said:
Well, we're what 5-6 years into ribbon now and I still hate it as much as I did on day one. I'm still warming up to BOB and eventually I suppose ME will grow on me. In other words, Microsoft has taken a swing and missed before. I do miss Clippy.
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BOB! LOL! I thought only I remembered BOB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teG6ou8mWU

As for Office... meh. I switched to StarOffice / OpenOffice in the late 1990's and haven't looked back.

-Rich
 
CT4ME said:
It's funny, the Apple/Mac crowd is different... Apple can come up with new products/software that are barely compatible with the past, or not at all, and the Apple Fan Boys don't seem to mind at all.
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Apple doesn't come up with stuff that's barely to not at all compatible with *recent* offerings, though, and that's the big difference. The Apple stuff is just always in a slow state of transition, and they manage transitions well. Hell, the Mac line is on its THIRD chip architecture (Motorola 680x0, PowerPC, Intel) and also managed to completely change its underpinnings from the proprietary start of Mac OS to the Unix base of Mac OS X.

I've been a Mac user through all of it. Can I run things from 1986? No. But when the first change, to the PowerPC architecture, came about in 1994 they made it pretty easy to make the jump - Developers could compile a "fat binary" that worked on either architecture, and the OS would translate the older programs to run anyway, albeit without the speed gains inherent in the new architecture. By the time you couldn't buy a 680x0-based Mac any more, any software that was still being supported had been switched over.

In 2000 or so when Mac OS X shipped, the original Mac OS API had been morphed into "Carbon" which took 90% of the OS calls that were originally available and kept them. The ones that they got rid of were the ones that weren't possible to put into a form that would work with things like protected memory, preemptive multitasking, and other modern OS features that Mac OS X had. So, developers had to go through their programs in the last couple of years before OS X debuted and re-jigger the parts of their software that used the remaining 10% so that it was compatible. In addition, you could run Mac OS 9 within Mac OS X (aka "Classic") after it came out so that you could still run the old software that hadn't been updated yet.

When the Intel machines were introduced, it was similar to the PowerPC transition - Programs could be compiled to run on both architectures, and a system called "Rosetta" was included in the OS to allow the newer machines to keep running programs that were compiled for the older ones.

They don't keep things compatible two levels back - When OS X came out, programs compiled only for 680x0 chips no longer worked. When the Intel machines came out, they no longer ran Classic. And now, Rosetta support has been dropped as well. However, with the time span between all of these upgrades, there was PLENTY of time to upgrade software to remain compatible and to translate older documents into newer formats if necessary.

That's why the Apple users don't squawk too loudly - We get plenty of new features to make up for the minimal time spent to update our software over time, and there's never a major shift to how things work. Microsoft, OTOH, will completely upset the apple cart in a single upgrade and **** off all their users. That's where the difference lies.
 
RJM62 said:
Apple could package deer manure and sell it as chocolate drops, and their fanboys would argue that it was better than Godiva. So what?
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NOT true!

Apple has screwed up before, plenty of times - And usually the "fanboys" are the first to call them out on it. But, they're generally good enough to not screw up really bad, so us fanboys will maybe deal with a small inconvenience for a short time while Apple fixes their mistake and we all move on.

What we're talking about here is a user interface. Microsoft can make the user interface look however they like without affecting the underlying system. So why force that particular change on users -- especially considering that Win-8 sales have been lukewarm, at best?

When WinXP came out, I had to hire part-timers to keep up with all the clients who wanted to upgrade from 98 / Me. Why? Because XP was a good, stable OS that was vastly different from 98 under the hood, but still maintained continuity of user experience.
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User Experience is Apple's thing... And not Microsoft's. Apple pays attention to these things a lot better. Microsoft, as you pointed out, is arrogant enough to think that it simply doesn't matter. That's where they're wrong, and that's why Win8 is in trouble.
 
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