Why you should ALWAYS bring a gun camping

[ScottM]

I try to eat healthy and exercise regurally. Sometimes I get sunburnt but I try to avoid it. When I go for a long bicycle ride (20+ miles) I carry lots of water, sunblock, sunglasses, my cell phone, and a concealed handgun.

You would be better off bringing some dog repellent (aka pepper spray). I have been attacked by dogs running lose while biking far more than ever being attacked by people where I would need a gun.

The only time a person ever gave me a hard time while biking I simply called 911. He was ****ed that I was riding on the road when there was a perfectly good sidewalk and he wanted to tell me how it was the law that bikes ride on the sidewalk. He got all up in my face, 911, 5 minutes later cops arrived, heard both sides, told him he was wrong and then issued him a ticket for improper lane usage and sent him on his way with his tail between his legs. He was never threatening violence, but if he did, I still had the pepper spray to slow him down.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I'm kind of on the both sides of the fence with this issue. I am covered for concealed carry by LOESA, after having carried a gun for twenty-nine years, I'm a gun fag myself, and sometimes I like toting one around. For myself though, the lack of a gun has never made me feel unsafe, and having one has not made me feel safer.At home here, my guns are all locked up in the basement. When I was a police officer, I carried all the time, and always had a pistol under the seat if I was traveling. But since I retired four years ago, I am carrying one less and less. I think that I'm getting tired of the responsibility that goes along with it. I don't hang around with people or in places where there is a lot of drinking and fighting going on.Having a pistol banging around on my ankle or pinching me in the waist when I sit down craps my style these days. Anyway, my attitude is that if it makes you feel better to have a gun close to you, do it. But don't try to justify it to yourself or anyone else by telling me that I'm less safe becasue I don't have one. Just play with your gun, and leave me out of it.

 

[dmccormack]

You would be better off bringing some dog repellent (aka pepper spray). I have been attacked by dogs running lose while biking far more than ever being attacked by people where I would need a gun.

Me too -- and a good hearty yell tends to stop them long enough to get the sprint wound up.

One Amish dog I bunny-hopped, but the back wheel caught him. He survived, but apparently had a boo-boo.

I carried a couple of times when riding bike after encounters with outlaw-crazy-types we seem to spawn around here. The only time I called the cops I waited 20 minutes.

The cop said he would "ride over to the guys house and see what was up..."

I followed the police car (of course he didn't expect me to keep up).

Some google-fu and I had his name, address...

All his neighbors received a subscription to a very embarrassing magazine.

With his name on it.

 

[wabower]

Mine are locked up at home too, but the baton isn't.

I usually have a sidearm along when traveling. I've had two direct encounters with toughs brandishing weapons in a threatening manner. Once was in Twin Bridges campground on the north fork of the White River in S. MO. Frank Hawkins, who weighed about 380 at the time, met them at the campground boundary and buried an axe about 4" into one of the cedar posts that held the barrier cable around the campground. They left vowing that "we'll be back later" which was a bit disconcerting. I kept the K-15 in the tent in the event they decided to rumble, but they evidently thought better of it or were too drunk to find the place again.

I'm kind of on the both sides of the fence with this issue. I am covered for concealed carry by LOESA, after having carried a gun for twenty-nine years, I'm a gun fag myself, and sometimes I like toting one around. For myself though, the lack of a gun has never made me feel unsafe, and having one has not made me feel safer.At home here, my guns are all locked up in the basement. When I was a police officer, I carried all the time, and always had a pistol under the seat if I was traveling. But since I retired four years ago, I am carrying one less and less. I think that I'm getting tired of the responsibility that goes along with it. I don't hang around with people or in places where there is a lot of drinking and fighting going on.Having a pistol banging around on my ankle or pinching me in the waist when I sit down craps my style these days. Anyway, my attitude is that if it makes you feel better to have a gun close to you, do it. But don't try to justify it to yourself or anyone else by telling me that I'm less safe becasue I don't have one. Just play with your gun, and leave me out of it.

 

[Maxmosbey]

We went to a wedding yesterday. Later in the evening, after the reception, everyone ended up in the hotel lounge. So my wife and I were down there having some drinks with some of the younger people. Around Midnight, there was a huge crowd in the lounge. Everyone was getting loud and the guys were starting to rough house. My wife and I were getting pretty happy, so we decided that it was time to head up to the room and call it a night before something got out of hand and we ended up drunk and in the middle of it. This morning, my daughter told me that around bar close, one of the guys in the group that we were drinking with got into a fight with a couple of guys who were in another group. She said that shortly there after, another fight broke out and it took eight cops to get everything settled down. Now some guys like to say that had they been there with their pistol, they might have been able to get it under control before the cops got there. For my part, I can see when people are getting stupid, and I'm smart enough to leave before they get stupider. To me the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself in a situation where someone else is shooting at you.

 

[jesse]

We went to a wedding yesterday. Later in the evening, after the reception, everyone ended up in the hotel lounge. So my wife and I were down there having some drinks with some of the younger people. Around Midnight, there was a huge crowd in the lounge. Everyone was getting loud and the guys were starting to rough house. My wife and I were getting pretty happy, so we decided that it was time to head up to the room and call it a night before something got out of hand and we ended up drunk and in the middle of it. This morning, my daughter told me that around bar close, one of the guys in the group that we were drinking with got into a fight with a couple of guys who were in another group. She said that shortly there after, another fight broke out and it took eight cops to get everything settled down. Now some guys like to say that had they been there with their pistol, they might have been able to get it under control before the cops got there. For my part, I can see when people are getting stupid, and I'm smart enough to leave before they get stupider. To me the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself in a situation where someone else is shooting at you.

There ain't a bar fight out there I'm going to try to break up with my pistol. I won't have it with me and if I did what the **** would I do with it? I can't shoot a guy simply because he wants to throw a stool at another guy...or me. If I pulled out a pistol it'd be a useless item that someone could just shoot me with. You break up bar fights by being sober and using your hands...which any cop worth his salt knows.

If you pull out a pistol you better already have justification for lethal force and your intent better be to use it if the threat does not immediately stop. There is no pulling out a gun to break up a non-lethal situation.

If I'm sober and things are getting out of hand I might break up a bar fight. Nick (SkyHog) and I did that at a Buffalo Wild Wings of all places a few years ago. If it were a large fight? Screw that. I'm going home.

 

[Maxmosbey]

There ain't a bar fight out there I'm going to try to break up with my pistol. I won't have it with me and if I did what the **** would I do with it? I can't shoot a guy simply because he wants to throw a stool at another guy...or me. If I pulled out a pistol it'd be a useless item that someone could just shoot me with. You break up bar fights by being sober and using your hands...which any cop worth his salt knows.

If you pull out a pistol you better already have justification for lethal force and your intent better be to use it if the threat does not immediately stop. There is no pulling out a gun to break up a non-lethal situation.

If I'm sober and things are getting out of hand I might break up a bar fight. Nick (SkyHog) and I did that at a Buffalo Wild Wings of all places a few years ago. If it were a large fight? Screw that. I'm going home.

I didn't say that you would. I'm not pointing my finger at anyone. I 'm not even saying anything about whether you should carry a pistol in your pocket. I'm saying that some people seem to think that the pistol is the end all for any confrontation. I've seen people whip out a pistol in the middle of the street to settle a dispute over a $500 fender bender, so I know that some people do. I'm saying that staying out of a fight is the best way to keep yourself from violent injuries. I'm also saying that I'm pretty good at that myself.

 

[pmanton]

Some years back I was riding my bicycle to work on a graveyard Sunday. It was 10:30 PM on a nice night. A group of punks came along side me, leaned out of the car ans smashed a glass bottle over my head. 2 things saved my life. I was wearing a helmet and I was armed !! If I didn't have a pistol with me I wouldn't be happily retired, writing this today.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1

 

[Maxmosbey]

This happened probably close to ten years ago. Dispatch got several calls that there was an accident and that one of the persons involved was holding the other at gun point. One of the calls actually came from the person who was holding the other at gun point. So the officers arrived to find a van at the intersection, and behind the van was a pickup truck. The driver of the van was standing at the side of the van holding a 9mm pistol. The driver of the truck was sitting in the truck, and the keys to the truck were on the hood. When the cops arrived the driver of the van surrendered his pistol and presented them with his concealed weapons permit. He said that the driver of the pickup rear ended him at the stop light, and then got out of his truck and was yelling at him. He said that the driver of the truck was telling him to move his van around the corner, but he thought that the pickup truck driver was going to try to run if he moved his van, so he refused. The driver of the pickup became angry, so the driver of the van got out and pointed his pistol at the driver of the pickup ordered him to get back in his truck, give the driver of the van his keys, and keep his hands on the wheel where the driver of the van could see them. He also told the cops that he had an AK47 in the back of his van that he always carried with him in case he needed more fire power. The driver of the truck said that he was looking at a construction project, not paying attention, and ran into the back of the van. He said that they were blocking traffic, so he got out to tell the driver of the van to pull around the corner and that they could wait for the police there. He said that the driver of the van got out with a pistol, pointed it at him, and ordered him to get back in his truck, surrender his keys, and keep his hands on the steering wheel where the driver of the van could see them. Total damage was about $500 at that time, and no injuries.

 

[LT4247]

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at this statement. As a 25 year LEO I have seen many people walk right through pepper spray to the face to continue a violent attack. Do you really want to trust your life to a spray? There is only one sure fire way to stop a violent personal attack and it is not calling 911!

You would be better off bringing some dog repellent (aka pepper spray). I have been attacked by dogs running lose while biking far more than ever being attacked by people where I would need a gun.

He was never threatening violence, but if he did, I still had the pepper spray to slow him down.

 

[ScottM]

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at this statement. As a 25 year LEO I have seen many people walk right through pepper spray to the face to continue a violent attack. Do you really want to trust your life to a spray? There is only one sure fire way to stop a violent personal attack and it is not calling 911!

So in your opinion when a dog chases you while bike riding, your 25 years as a LEO tells you to start opening fire?


Lovely.

 

[SkyHog]

We went to a wedding yesterday. Later in the evening, after the reception, everyone ended up in the hotel lounge. So my wife and I were down there having some drinks with some of the younger people. Around Midnight, there was a huge crowd in the lounge. Everyone was getting loud and the guys were starting to rough house. My wife and I were getting pretty happy, so we decided that it was time to head up to the room and call it a night before something got out of hand and we ended up drunk and in the middle of it. This morning, my daughter told me that around bar close, one of the guys in the group that we were drinking with got into a fight with a couple of guys who were in another group. She said that shortly there after, another fight broke out and it took eight cops to get everything settled down. Now some guys like to say that had they been there with their pistol, they might have been able to get it under control before the cops got there. For my part, I can see when people are getting stupid, and I'm smart enough to leave before they get stupider. To me the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself in a situation where someone else is shooting at you.

You, as a police officer and probably gun owner, should know as much as any other gun owner that you fight fire with fire, and the gun is a self defense weapon against fear of death.

There is never a reason to use a gun to stop a bar fight. Getting hit with a beer glass is not life or death.

You are intentionally being disingenuous to throw dirt at gun owners.

 

[fgcason]

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at this statement. As a 25 year LEO I have seen many people walk right through pepper spray to the face to continue a violent attack. Do you really want to trust your life to a spray? There is only one sure fire way to stop a violent personal attack and it is not calling 911!

What about using the nasty pepper spray for bears on people..you know, the stuff that says don't use it on humans because it will really hurt people and likely cause permanent damage.

Yea yea yea, it'll hurt some poor hooligan bent on no good however they shouldn't have been attacking anyone in the first place so fair's fair. At least they don't get their head shot clean off.

 

[nddons]

We went to a wedding yesterday. Later in the evening, after the reception, everyone ended up in the hotel lounge. So my wife and I were down there having some drinks with some of the younger people. Around Midnight, there was a huge crowd in the lounge. Everyone was getting loud and the guys were starting to rough house. My wife and I were getting pretty happy, so we decided that it was time to head up to the room and call it a night before something got out of hand and we ended up drunk and in the middle of it. This morning, my daughter told me that around bar close, one of the guys in the group that we were drinking with got into a fight with a couple of guys who were in another group. She said that shortly there after, another fight broke out and it took eight cops to get everything settled down. Now some guys like to say that had they been there with their pistol, they might have been able to get it under control before the cops got there. For my part, I can see when people are getting stupid, and I'm smart enough to leave before they get stupider. To me the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself in a situation where someone else is shooting at you.

With all due respect, that's baloney. If he was an Iowa CCW holder, he would not have been able to be in said bar period (at least that was the law when I had my Iowa CCW permit circa 1994-2000). Second, anyone who has taken the required "lethal force" course for an Iowa (or probably most any other state) CCW would know that using a weapon "to get it under control before the cops got there" would be an idiot, in violation of the terms of the permit, and likely to lose his weapon privileges.

Now if the guy was unlawfully carrying a weapon in a bar without a permit, well, those are the kind of people we should be concerned about, right? Those people cause other kinds of people to go to the trouble and expense to get a CCW permit to be able to lawfully protect themselves. While there are idiot CCW permit holders as well, I would be shocked to see a CCW holder try to break up a bar fight with a weapon. He would most likely egress the situation, as did you.

 

[bigred177]

What about using the nasty pepper spray for bears on people..you know, the stuff that says don't use it on humans because it will really hurt people and likely cause permanent damage.

Yea yea yea, it'll hurt some poor hooligan bent on no good however they shouldn't have been attacking anyone in the first place so fair's fair. At least they don't get their head shot clean off.

Then they sue you in civil court and win

 

[weilke]

The driver of the truck said that he was looking at a construction project, not paying attention, and ran into the back of the van. He said that they were blocking traffic, so he got out to tell the driver of the van to pull around the corner and that they could wait for the police there. He said that the driver of the van got out with a pistol, pointed it at him, and ordered him to get back in his truck, surrender his keys, and keep his hands on the steering wheel where the driver of the van could see them. Total damage was about $500 at that time, and no injuries.

The van driver forced him at gunpoint to move from the outside of the car to the inside. Did he get charged with kidnapping ?

 

[dmccormack]

What about using the nasty pepper spray for bears on people..you know, the stuff that says don't use it on humans because it will really hurt people and likely cause permanent damage

Have you observed the SIZE of those cannisters????



(That's the only difference between bear and people spray -- quantity).

 

[Maxmosbey]

You, as a police officer and probably gun owner, should know as much as any other gun owner that you fight fire with fire, and the gun is a self defense weapon against fear of death.

There is never a reason to use a gun to stop a bar fight. Getting hit with a beer glass is not life or death.

You are intentionally being disingenuous to throw dirt at gun owners.

I'm not throwing dirt at anyone. You are absolutely right that a gun is self defense against fear of death. If you are facing the possibility of death or serious injury I am in agreement with you, a gun is a good thing to have. I'm pointing out that not everyone who owns a gun is responsible. There is no requirement to show that you have good judgment to own a gun. You are pointing out a situation where you believe lives were saved by having a gun close at hand. I am just pointing out a situation where someone used a gun when it was inappropriate. Do you not want to hear about people who use a gun when it is inappropriate? Do you only want to hear stories about people who use guns to save lives? I have one of those too.

One other thing. Do you have any other information about the incident that you started this thread out with. I have been trying to find a follow up on it, and I can't find anything. I think that there is a lot more to this story, and I am interested in how it shakes out. If you have anything else on it, I would appreciate an update.


Max

 

[Maxmosbey]

With all due respect, that's baloney. If he was an Iowa CCW holder, he would not have been able to be in said bar period (at least that was the law when I had my Iowa CCW permit circa 1994-2000). Second, anyone who has taken the required "lethal force" course for an Iowa (or probably most any other state) CCW would know that using a weapon "to get it under control before the cops got there" would be an idiot, in violation of the terms of the permit, and likely to lose his weapon privileges.

Now if the guy was unlawfully carrying a weapon in a bar without a permit, well, those are the kind of people we should be concerned about, right? Those people cause other kinds of people to go to the trouble and expense to get a CCW permit to be able to lawfully protect themselves. While there are idiot CCW permit holders as well, I would be shocked to see a CCW holder try to break up a bar fight with a weapon. He would most likely egress the situation, as did you.

Not everyone follows the rules. I was talking to a state legislator one time. We were talking about a lady who was driving drunk and got into an accident. She had been arrested for OWI three times before. The legislator asked me how she got a license with three OWIs. I told him that her license was revoked. For some reason the idea that she was driving without a license confused him. A lot of people get their CCW permits taken away because they do stupid things.

 

[Maxmosbey]

The van driver forced him at gunpoint to move from the outside of the car to the inside. Did he get charged with kidnapping ?

You know, I can't remember what all he got charged with. I thought that I remembered his name, and I tried to look it up on Iowa Courts On Line, but I must not remember it correctly because I couldn't find anything. I do not remember kidnapping, but I do remember that he got charged with serious assault. I believe that it all got plead down and he got a slap on the hand and lost his CCW permit.

 

[tdager]

For those who feel very strongly about this need, do you feel this strongly about other risks that you face in life?

This is the part I'm trying to figure out. I see people post cautionary tales, proof that you should never be without a gun. Anybody foolish enough to go without is a "victim".

But murder is the 15th-ranked cause of death. What about the other 14? Why aren't you just as concerned about those? How come I never see a cautionary tale about septicemia (#10)? Or diabetes (#6)?

8000 people die every year from skin cancer. I'm sure many of you live in areas of the country where skin cancer is a higher mortality risk than homicide. Do you keep a bottle of sunscreen in an ankle holster? How come nobody ever posts a thread titled "Why you should ALWAYS bring sunscreen camping"?
-harry

OK I admit I had to look up septicemia....so I can say that I do the best I can but since it is an infection related disease all I can do is make sure I keep any cuts clean (and I do, Neosporin baby!) and hope the hospital does the same. Diabetes? I work out regularly, stay active, keep a trim weight...so yup I also am "concerned" about that and do what I can to lessen my risk to that threat as well.

Oh and I am a BIG believer in sunscreen when spending a long time exposed to the sun. As a matter of fact sunscreen is a basic staple in our camping/outdoor bag.

So yes....I am cautious about other threats as well, as are most of hte people I know that are also gun owners/concealed carry people. Again I said "that *I* know"...I cannot speak for anyone else.

 

[SkyHog]

For those who feel very strongly about this need, do you feel this strongly about other risks that you face in life?

This is the part I'm trying to figure out. I see people post cautionary tales, proof that you should never be without a gun. Anybody foolish enough to go without is a "victim".

But murder is the 15th-ranked cause of death. What about the other 14? Why aren't you just as concerned about those? How come I never see a cautionary tale about septicemia (#10)? Or diabetes (#6)?

8000 people die every year from skin cancer. I'm sure many of you live in areas of the country where skin cancer is a higher mortality risk than homicide. Do you keep a bottle of sunscreen in an ankle holster? How come nobody ever posts a thread titled "Why you should ALWAYS bring sunscreen camping"?
-harry

Because PoA doesn't have a very large and misguided group of anti-sunscreen fanatics that would rather see you get a sunburn and die of skin cancer than take a change at survival by putting it on.

I mean, afterall, sometimes, sunscreen makes your hands slippery and you crash and die in an automobile. Think of the children. I bet sunscreen leads to as many deaths (OR MORE!!) than it saves lives.

 

[SkyHog]

One other thing. Do you have any other information about the incident that you started this thread out with. I have been trying to find a follow up on it, and I can't find anything. I think that there is a lot more to this story, and I am interested in how it shakes out. If you have anything else on it, I would appreciate an update.


Max

That is actually something that is bothering me. I saw it on the front page of the ABQ Journal, and then on one station's website, but nothing else, and nothing since.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

That is actually something that is bothering me. I saw it on the front page of the ABQ Journal, and then on one station's website, but nothing else, and nothing since.

That is just...odd. I think I mentioned it above, but you'd think that this would be a nation-wide story.

Oh well.

In other gun news, expect a major decision on the 2nd Amendment today.

 

[ScottM]

In other gun news, expect a major decision on the 2nd Amendment today.

If I may offer this edit;

'In other gun news, expect a major decision on Mayor Daley's blood pressure today.'

Should be fun to watch. When the veins on his head explode I wonder what will be easier to plug. His circulatory system or the BP gushing gulf oil well.

 

[dmccormack]

I always carry when out in the woods (and we have some fairly large expanses of nothing here).


Why?

• Snakes (I have snake load as first shot)
• Rabid whatever
• Bears (Black bear will tangle with humans but will flee if stuck by a 9mm, unlike grizzly)
• Humans (call 911 out here and ...oh, that's right -- no cell service)
• Emergency signal (3 shots in succession)
• Emergency fire starter
• It's legal
• Finally: I sleep better at night

It weighs little yet provides all these benefits. Why not carry?

 

[LT4247]

No experience with fighting dogs from bicycles or bears with pepper spray...just the violent criminal element. If you want to use a chemical spray or other non lethal methods to defend your life in the event of a vicious and violent personal attack (from a person), that is your choice. If that were to happen then I hope it turns out well for you. My point is this is a poor substitute for a couple of well placed shots to the upper body for stopping aggravated assaults and other forcible felonies.

What about using the nasty pepper spray for bears on people..you know, the stuff that says don't use it on humans because it will really hurt people and likely cause permanent damage.

Yea yea yea, it'll hurt some poor hooligan bent on no good however they shouldn't have been attacking anyone in the first place so fair's fair. At least they don't get their head shot clean off.

 

[ScottM]

No experience with fighting dogs from bicycles or bears with pepper spray...just the violent criminal element. If you want to use a chemical spray or other non lethal methods to defend your life in the event of a vicious and violent personal attack (from a person), that is your choice. If that were to happen then I hope it turns out well for you. My point is this is a poor substitute for a couple of well placed shots to the upper body for stopping aggravated assaults and other forcible felonies.

Yes cops murdering dogs is one of those brave things that police do to serve and protect.

I was doing research today, and I was surprised to find how many times police officers shoot dogs without cause. In every case here, the officers have been cleared of any wrongdoing.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/family-questions-police-shooting-101050.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1091106/posts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/11/AR2006091101440.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090402746.html

That was a simple 3 minute search. There are many, many other examples.

Mike Vick was more of a man than these officers were. At least he didn't use a gun.

edit: I edited my post because it sounded too "internet tough guy"ish.

A better solution is instead, I would think, to arrest the police officer. It ain't gonna be pretty, but it will get attention, and probably get these scum treated as the dirtbags they are.

Can you arrest a police officer?

 

[Everskyward]

Why not carry?

It seems like a PITA. Question for all you carriers, what do you do with it when you need to enter a building or go someplace where it is not allowed? Do you lock it in your car?

To me it seems like way more trouble than benefit. A gun is something you would need to keep track of all the time. I once lived with a guy who tried to convince me to carry and the harder he tried the more convinced I became that it was not for me. That's not to say that I am opposed to other people carrying. It's just that the attitude of some carriers is that you are an idiot if you decide not to do it yourself.

 

[dmccormack]

Yes cops murdering dogs is one of those brave things that police do to serve and protect.

You cannot "murder" a dog, since a dog is not a person (we own two dogs, one a rescue, and our Lab passed away last fall so I have "dog owner bona fides")

That said, evidence snatching for anomalies to "prove" some point doesn't add to the discussion.

 

[mantakos]

Because PoA doesn't have a very large and misguided group of anti-sunscreen fanatics that would rather see you get a sunburn and die of skin cancer than take a change at survival by putting it on...

So what you're saying is that gun afficionados who would never leave the home without a gun, would also never leave the home without sunscreen, all pursue healthy diets low in fat and sugar and eat all their veggies, and pursue regular regimens of exercise to stay fit and trim and remain heart-healthy, they just don't talk about all that here because there are no misguided fools here who irrationally fail to see the value of those measures, and so there's no reason to bring the topic up?
-harry

 

[dmccormack]

It seems like a PITA. Question for all you carriers, what do you do with it when you need to enter a building or go someplace where it is not allowed? Do you lock it in your car?

To me it seems like way more trouble than benefit. A gun is something you would need to keep track of all the time. I once lived with a guy who tried to convince me to carry and the harder he tried the more convinced I became that it was not for me. That's not to say that I am opposed to other people carrying. It's just that the attitude of some carriers is that you are an idiot if you decide not to do it yourself.

It's not at all, especially with the right combination firearm and holster. Guys that claim to carry S&W 500 are full of it -- you might as well carry a shotgun if you're gonna haul that much metal around.



When I'm canoe camping or back packing the idea is to avoid "entering buildings."

Buildings where gun carrying is prohibited are rare in the woodsy places we go.

I'm not an advocate for carrying -- I have lots of firearm training and practice and have spent lots of time studying the law and case law to know when and where use is prohibited/permitted. I think everyone else that carries should also, but that's not realistic, so the price we pay for freedom is the presence of boneheads.

What else is new?

 

[dmccormack]

So what you're saying is that gun afficionados who would never leave the home without a gun, would also never leave the home without sunscreen, all pursue healthy diets low in fat and sugar and eat all their veggies, and pursue regular regimens of exercise to stay fit and trim and remain heart-healthy, they just don't talk about all that here because there are no misguided fools here who irrationally fail to see the value of those measures, and so there's no reason to bring the topic up?
-harry

No -- because as Jim Fixx proved, the only "statistic" that matters is what happens to you.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I always carry when out in the woods (and we have some fairly large expanses of nothing here).



Why?

• Snakes (I have snake load as first shot)
• Rabid whatever
• Bears (Black bear will tangle with humans but will flee if stuck by a 9mm, unlike grizzly)
• Humans (call 911 out here and ...oh, that's right -- no cell service)
• Emergency signal (3 shots in succession)
• Emergency fire starter
• It's legal
• Finally: I sleep better at night

It weighs little yet provides all these benefits. Why not carry?

All that seems entirely reasonable to me.

 

[Everskyward]

When I'm canoe camping or back packing the idea is to avoid "entering buildings."

Buildings where gun carrying is prohibited are rare in the woodsy places we go.

I wasn't specifically addressing carrying in the woods. I was thinking about the people who carry in general. There are lots of places where guns are not allowed, at my workplace, for instance.

 

[dmccormack]

I wasn't specifically addressing carrying in the woods. I was thinking about the people who carry in general. There are lots of places where guns are not allowed, at my workplace, for instance.

As in so many cases -- "it depends."

Some states recognize cars as places firearms can be stored and not be considered on the employers property.

Private property owners can place constraints on the "right to carry" -- including malls, office buildings, etc.

Anyway, some people carry everywhere and anytime.

That's fine, but there may be legal fallout if you choose to unholster in one of those areas deemed "gun free."

As long as you know about and are willing to exchange Risk A for Risk B, oh well -- we're all free to be dumb.

 

[Everskyward]

As in so many cases -- "it depends."

Some states recognize cars as places firearms can be stored and not be considered on the employers property.

Private property owners can place constraints on the "right to carry" -- including malls, office buildings, etc.

Anyway, some people carry everywhere and anytime.

That's fine, but there may be legal fallout if you choose to unholster in one of those areas deemed "gun free."

As long as you know about and are willing to exchange Risk A for Risk B, oh well -- we're all free to be dumb.

There it is, the "dumb" thing again. Or do you mean that either choice is dumb?

 

[murphey]

Statistically speaking, a sensible diet and exercise will do a whole lot more to extend your life expectancy. If gun owners were _really_ motivated by survival, they'd shoot Ronald McDonald.
-harry

And whoever invented Twinkies....

 

[murphey]

To me the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself in a situation where someone else is shooting at you.

To me, the first line of self defense is knowing how to avoid getting yourself into any type of potentially hostile situation....

I see the cops with 1+ cars or N+ people pulled over (and it's not a speed trap!) I go the other way.

 

[mantakos]

No -- because as Jim Fixx proved, the only "statistic" that matters is what happens to you.

... meaning ... what?

Sort of sounds like a willful confusion of probability with possibility. An endorsement of the low-probability course of action because it sometimes succeeds, and a rejection of the high-probability course of action because it sometimes fails. A strategy that works well for rationalizing bad lifestyle choices, and poorly in Vegas.

Or else I'm just not getting your point.
-harry