Why would anyone go to ATP now ?

NJP_MAN

NJP_MAN

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ATP has always been proud that they get you so much multi time and therefore you will be ready for the airlines. Meanwhile regionals are hiring at 25hr multi, some aren't even interviewing and just offering class dates over the phone. So why go and fly for 100+ hrs multi while you learn and find yourself $80k in debt so someone else gets the same job with 25hrs multi?

How can they stay in business.
 
I wonder the same thing. The reduced competitiveness of multiengine time was a forgone conclusion when the 1500-hour rule started.
 
ATP inc never was a good deal and always was **** poor instruction.

How do they stay in business, they market ALOT and dumb kids sign up, get poor education, work for peanuts answering phones and hawking their crap as a CFI, the finally make peanuts flying for them and giving back they same poor instruction they received, rinse and repeat.

Smart folks have always gone to a mom and pop pt61, shot gunned hours with a friend, some even buy a plane to build hours.
 
James331 said:
ATP inc never was a good deal and always was **** poor instruction.
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This is true but it's an even worse deal now. The business model of "we'll get you lots of multi time quickly" is obsolete.
 
Research is key in flight training. After you look at your options ,there are better ways of getting the rating.
 
Wasn't ATP involved in the special request to bypass the 1500 hour thing, like ERAU and UND were shooting for (or maybe got? heck if I know, I barely follow these things)...

... or did they not ask, or more likely, not pay off the right Senator?
 
denverpilot said:
Wasn't ATP involved in the special request to bypass the 1500 hour thing, like ERAU and UND were shooting for (or maybe got? heck if I know, I barely follow these things)...

... or did they not ask, or more likely, not pay off the right Senator?
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Not that I know of. I think they do something with the ASU flight program, but they've got no other connection to get the lower minimums towards an ATP like ERAU/UND/whatever collect has.
 
denverpilot said:
Wasn't ATP involved in the special request to bypass the 1500 hour thing, like ERAU and UND were shooting for (or maybe got? heck if I know, I barely follow these things)...

... or did they not ask, or more likely, not pay off the right Senator?
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ERAU did get a special condition where, if you completed their Aeronautical Science program and completed your training through Multi-Commercial, you got the limit reduced to 1,200 hours.

And, last time I checked, ATP stood for, "Another Terrible Pilot."
 
ATP Inc was/is working on offering the ground program for the new ATP regs, I'm sure they'll make a few bucks of all their airline wannabes.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Not that I know of. I think they do something with the ASU flight program, but they've got no other connection to get the lower minimums towards an ATP like ERAU/UND/whatever collect has.
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They'll figure out how to get back on that gravy train. Nobody lets the completion buy off the politicians for too long without ponying up themselves.
 
James331 said:
ATP inc never was a good deal and always was **** poor instruction.

How do they stay in business, they market ALOT and dumb kids sign up, get poor education, work for peanuts answering phones and hawking their crap as a CFI, the finally make peanuts flying for them and giving back they same poor instruction they received, rinse and repeat.

Smart folks have always gone to a mom and pop pt61, shot gunned hours with a friend, some even buy a plane to build hours.
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Agree with this 100%
 
So multi-time isn't important anymore for hiring? Granted, I'm not in the market for a flying job, but I always remember multi time being a very important hiring criteria.
 
It still is. A person with more multi time will look better than applicant with less time.
 
I peruse pilot job ads a lot and the minimum multi time really hasn't changed a whole lot. But more is for sure better.

The big thing is having the ATP written done before the cut-off date had passed.

David
 
Well I'm currently going there so that I can get my ratings done in a timely manner so that for the next 4 years while I'm in college I can instruct and build time towards what ever flying career I decide to go to. I personally don't think it's **** poor instructing. Maybe some places but every where has those instructors. I don't work for them nor do I plan on doing so. It's a chitty company at least I think so but they get it done.
 
Catalo said:
Well I'm currently going there so that I can get my ratings done in a timely manner so that for the next 4 years while I'm in college I can instruct and build time towards what ever flying career I decide to go to. I personally don't think it's **** poor instructing. Maybe some places but every where has those instructors. I don't work for them nor do I plan on doing so. It's a chitty company at least I think so but they get it done.
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It's VERY expensive for what it is, you can also get the same ratings at the same speed at any school with a decent sized fleet.

I hope you're going to get your 4 year online and use some credit from your flight training, otherwise you're going to have a ridiculous amount of debt, like your grad kids are going to be still paying those bills.

Ether way good luck.
 
James331 said:
It's VERY expensive for what it is, you can also get the same ratings at the same speed at any school with a decent sized fleet.

I hope you're going to get your 4 year online and use some credit from your flight training, otherwise you're going to have a ridiculous amount of debt, like your grad kids are going to be still paying those bills.

Ether way good luck.
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Southern Illinois. I get credit for my ratings. And I went to atp because they have financing. I know every one on here thinks it's the worst thing in the world but it's not any more than if I went to a 4 college and it gets it done faster. And thank you
as for the whole bad education thing we all have to pass the same check ride standards so that's kind of a bull **** reason. Not directing that at anyone specific.
 
How much multi time is competitive to get into an entry level non-CFI position? (Ie Ameriflight, charter SIC, freight, bottom of the barrel regional, etc.). Assuming you have 135 mins (ie 1200+ hrs, etc)
 
Catalo said:
Southern Illinois. I get credit for my ratings. And I went to atp because they have financing. I know every one on here thinks it's the worst thing in the world but it's not any more than if I went to a 4 college and it gets it done faster. And thank you
as for the whole bad education thing we all have to pass the same check ride standards so that's kind of a bull **** reason. Not directing that at anyone specific.
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Pass the same checkride, there is sooo much more to it then that.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
ERAU did get a special condition where, if you completed their Aeronautical Science program and completed your training through Multi-Commercial, you got the limit reduced to 1,200 hours.

And, last time I checked, ATP stood for, "Another Terrible Pilot."
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It's 1000 hours with a BS degree, the 1250 is for some other situation (I think AS degree or some other qualifier)

James331 said:
ATP Inc was/is working on offering the ground program for the new ATP regs, I'm sure they'll make a few bucks of all their airline wannabes.
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They are probably working on setting up a CTP course, to be able to take the written. Sportys/Airborne set one up, I heard its $4500.

dans2992 said:
So multi-time isn't important anymore for hiring? Granted, I'm not in the market for a flying job, but I always remember multi time being a very important hiring criteria.

How much multi time is competitive to get into an entry level non-CFI position? (Ie Ameriflight, charter SIC, freight, bottom of the barrel regional, etc.). Assuming you have 135 mins (ie 1200+ hrs, etc)
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You can't get a ATP-MEL without 50 hours class/category, so that still matters.

135 mins will get you on at basically any of the package feed companies. I was in the left seat of a PA31 at Ameriflight with 400 hours of airplane time. Show up with close to 100 hours of multitime at Ameriflight, you'll probably go straight to a BE99.
 
James331 said:
Pass the same checkride, there is sooo much more to it then that.
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I know. And I'm sure there are gaps in my knowledge as well as your own and every one else here. Personally I work my ass off and study a lot. I try and fill those gaps but there are people at atp who are stupid. As every where else. I don't disagree with what you have said but broad generalizations about everyone who goes there aren't always true.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
It's 1000 hours with a BS degree, the 1250 is for some other situation (I think AS degree or some other qualifier)







They are probably working on setting up a CTP course, to be able to take the written. Sportys/Airborne set one up, I heard its $4500.







You can't get a ATP-MEL without 50 hours class/category, so that still matters.



135 mins will get you on at basically any of the package feed companies. I was in the left seat of a PA31 at Ameriflight with 400 hours of airplane time. Show up with close to 100 hours of multitime at Ameriflight, you'll probably go straight to a BE99.
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How'd you get in the left seat at Ameriflight without having 135 IFR mins?
 
I thought pay to fly was only for SIC time?

Plus, legally the captain must have 135 mins, right?
 
dans2992 said:
How'd you get in the left seat at Ameriflight without having 135 IFR mins?
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I didn't say I didn't have 135 mins, I said I had 400 hours of airplane time. I had another 1400 or so hours of LTA time.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I didn't say I didn't have 135 mins, I said I had 400 hours of airplane time. I had another 1400 or so hours of LTA time.
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Ahh, gotcha. So, how was it flying for them? I've considered doing it for "fun" if I was ever between jobs. (I am currently not in the aviation field)....
 
dans2992 said:
Ahh, gotcha. So, how was it flying for them? I've considered doing it for "fun" if I was ever between jobs. (I am currently not in the aviation field)....
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Its a tale of many airlines. The further west you are based, the better the place is to work. Good place to get in, move up, and move on.
 
dans2992 said:
How much multi time is competitive to get into an entry level non-CFI position? (Ie Ameriflight, charter SIC, freight, bottom of the barrel regional, etc.). Assuming you have 135 mins (ie 1200+ hrs, etc)
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25 hrs multi will get you into the regionals. Once there, you will only get multi so it's that easy.
 
NJP_MAN said:
25 hrs multi will get you into the regionals. Once there, you will only get multi so it's that easy.
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What if you aren't interested in 121? Is it harder to get into a corporate part 91 or 135 operation?


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at 25 hrs multi you barely know how to fly multi. i want to know which airline hires pilots with 25 hrs of twin and 1475 hrs of bugsmashing in the practice area so i never fly with them.
 
Most ATPs have had a few jobs to get to that point, probably a few outside of the practice area :)

You ain't getting the ATP cross country, instrument and night requirments doing steep turns in the practice area.

Seems most regionals put their mins between 25-100hrs of multi time, most asking for 50hrs... the min time in class for a ATP.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Its a tale of many airlines. The further west you are based, the better the place is to work. Good place to get in, move up, and move on.
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Do you know anything about their operation in Puerto Rico? It's a long way East, if it fits your theory. I'm living here now, thinking about applying to Amflight in a couple months.
 
pilottim said:
Do you know anything about their operation in Puerto Rico? It's a long way East, if it fits your theory. I'm living here now, thinking about applying to Amflight in a couple months.
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Smart money is on somewhere like Cape Air.
 
cirrusmx said:
at 25 hrs multi you barely know how to fly multi. i want to know which airline hires pilots with 25 hrs of twin and 1475 hrs of bugsmashing in the practice area so i never fly with them.
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My co worker was just offered positions with mesa, gojet, comutair. Has interview offers from Skywest and TSA all with exactly 25 hrs multi. So basically all regionals are offering at 25hrs multi. You will get the other 25 required during sim for the type.
 
dans2992 said:
What if you aren't interested in 121? Is it harder to get into a corporate part 91 or 135 operation?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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If you're not interested in 121 then definitely don't go to flight training at the place (ATP) that is "designed" with 121 in mind. But yes you will need multi time. So go work at cape air, AMF or somewhere else and get some multi PIC and you are all set for 91/135
 
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