Tom-D
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And,, is there any ADs that make them a required replacement item?
Why No Prebuys???
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And,, is there any ADs that make them a required replacement item?
Such as?
Bonanzas are simple airplanes to work on. I haven't found anything particularly odd on them. The only thing that probably needs to be understood is that many of them have more STCs and alterations on them than other planes.
James331
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A 4C on a Falcon 900 is a couple thousand man hours with 3 to 6 months downtime. A prebuy will be less than 10% of that.
Translate to a high wing cessna - when was the last time the interior headliners, side walls and fuel tank covers off? No one wants to pull the interior because the pastic is as brittle as eggshells, guess where suprises will be after the sale goes thru
Unless you have the Selkirk fiberglass interior. Ether way at least on mine there isn't much the glass was covering, the headliner has zippers and isn't too tuff to see what's going on in there.
Silvaire
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No, I don't know where you draw that conclusion from. I'm simply pointing out that there is no such thing as "Beechcraft maintenance" There is nothing elaborately special about a Bonanza, no intricate maintenance procedures requiring a doctorate degree and no secret society documents that only the privileged are aware of. It's just a regular old airplane.
RotorAndWing
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RotorAndWing
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Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
ya but....tell that to the Beech people, who make a living at it. 
RotorAndWing
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ya but....tell that to the Beech people, who make a living at it.
And Cadillac is all quality as well.
It's all marketing hype.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
Rotor, I have always had a lot of respect for your posts so I don't want to get into it with you, but Silvaire has posted twice indicating that Bonanza's aren't worth the money. They are great planes and I think they are well worth the money. I don't criticize his plane. After all, my Bo didn't cost much more than my C-172 sold for.
And he is running down what I quoted my mechanic as calling "Beech Maintenance". My mechanic happens to be one of the best and most recognized Bonanza mechanics in the county. When he said my plane has had good maintenance, but not Beech maintenance, I felt he was being kind to the previous owner and mechanic, and not simply bragging about his own skills (like is done so often on POA).
I'm proud of my plane and Silvaire seems to want to pee on my parade. Is that what you were agreeing with?
RotorAndWing
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I'm agreeing that a Bonanza takes no exceptional skills to maintain, it's just another airplane.
I'm glad you're happy with your airplane, that's the bottom line and all that really matters.
For me personally, you couldn't give me a Bonanza.
I'm glad you're happy with your airplane, that's the bottom line and all that really matters.
For me personally, you couldn't give me a Bonanza.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
here....here....Kemosabe.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
For me personally, you couldn't give me a Bonanza.
Curious why that is? What is it in particular that you don't like about them? I've flown damn near every certified there is and the Bonanza is pretty high on the list. It's very good at a lot of things and at the same time handles so sweet.
Not my FAVORITE airplane, but I'd be damn glad if someone gave me one.
Tom-D
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Yep, you might get lucky, and find some one who will buy it even if it has 10k worth of gripes on it.
Silvaire
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Whoa there John. You're the one who said there was maintenance and then there was "Beech" maintenance (or quoted your mechanic as saying such) and all I'm saying is there is no such distinction.
There certainly are incompetent A&P mechanics out there as there are in all walks of life. You can't tell me there are no incompetent lawyers or policemen or airline pilots.
I'm sure you are proud of your Bonanza and rightly so, they are good airplanes. I've been maintaining several of them for a number of years as well as a couple of Barons (which are basically a Bonanza with an extra engine) I'll claim , for example, that you don't intimately know a Bonanza until you've contorted yourself into an extremely uncomfortable position for an extended period of time threading and rigging a new trim indicator cable on a '46 V35.
But "Beech" maintenance? Get off your high horse. If you think some A&P who just did an annual on a Piper Aerostar is too stoopid ta work on a Bananzer you've got a lot to learn and having a mechanic who leads you to believe so ain't helping.
Kristin
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I'm agreeing that a Bonanza takes no exceptional skills to maintain, it's just another airplane.
For me personally, you couldn't give me a Bonanza.
It takes no exception skill, but to do an annual efficiently you do need to know the ins and outs of the quirky and the complex. When the airplane hasn't been manufactured in a few decades, the best information no longer resides with the manufacturer, even if the manufacturer is still in business. In those cases, type clubs or online communities provide valuable information. The Comanche series is an example there.
I have flown most of the Bo's since the C35. I am not a great fan of the V-tails. The recent A-36's are really nice, but not cost effective.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
That didn't mean it was better, it just meant there are differences, even if very minor differences. And as much as I love my Bo, I know that Bos are not near as forgiving as my Cessna was. Pilot mistakes are largely to blame for the phrase "Doctor Killer". If the pilot makes a mistake, or if the plane has a malfunction it can be more critical than if a Cessna has the same problem. I want to use a mechanic that has experience seeing and knowing what those small mechanical issues might be.
It's not a matter of competence or incompetence. When I owned a ford, I never took it to a Mercedes mechanic and today I don't take my BMW to a Subaru mechanic.
timwinters
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VanDy
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I've done a couple of pre-buys, either for people i know or their friends that come with references. I spent 3 hours looking at a 172 a few weeks ago for a guy in New Hampshire. My fee was less than the round trip plane ticket he would have spent going to look at an airplane that wasnt worth it. He already had electronic copies of the logs and I sent him about 100 photos. He thought it was well worth it.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's kind of funny, coming from someone that drives helicopters. Those things sure are safe, easy to fly and cost effective, arent' they.For me personally, you couldn't give me a Bonanza.
It's also sort of condescending. The only way I'd take a free helicopter is if I thought I could sell it for enough to pay the taxes and leave a little profit for my effort. How much does a helicopter that can make 168kts TAS cost to buy and maintain?
But tell me, do you take your helicopters to the on-field Cessna mechanic?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
What are you saying Tom? Who gives a **** if there is 10k worth of problems on the airplane if you as the buyer want the airplane?
What does this have to do with Beechcraft? It doesn't matter what type you're looking at, there are plenty of them out there, where 10k worth of problems would be an understatement.
We attempted to purchase an additional 172 about a week ago for the rental business. It "looked" like a fair deal online, and the information sent beforehand backed it up.
An offer was made, the offer was accepted, the airplane was delivered and holy ****. Original plan was we were going to annual it before we closed. Within 5 minutes of the delivery pilot landing I had to immediately call the broker and tell them that we're sorry to waste their time but the airplane is by no means as described and we're not going to be able to accept the airplane at ANY price. Delivery pilot was happy to get to fly the airplane back home instead of taking the airlines.
I bought a Flybaby where I put 50% of what I paid for it back into maintenance in the first three months. I pretty well expected I was going to have to do that. 10k is by far less than 50% of the Bo's value.
bnt83
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If you can't find $10k worth of squawks on a GA legacy airplane, you aren't looking very hard.
RotorAndWing
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That's kind of funny, coming from someone that drives helicopters. Those things sure are safe, easy to fly and cost effective, arent' they.
My experience with helicopters are as working aircraft, not weekend flyers. The jobs I used them on a fixed wing of any type couldn't do it.
Not meant to be condescending, I simply don't care for Bonanzas as I've had friends that has owned them and I have flown them and worked on them. I just never bought the "hype" that they are this wonderful quality aircraft.
But, in all fairness, if you love your airplane, that's all that really matters, right?
Ever try to hover your Bonanza or take it into a 100'X100' confined area? Ever try to fly it at 30kts, 50 feet from a powerline?
The large part of my A&P/IA background is helicopter, and I trained a few A&P's to work on them.
RotorAndWing
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RotorAndWing
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Silvaire
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I'm not. My post was just a response to your rant that I was "peeing on your parade" because I made a simple comment about the nonsensical term "Beechcraft maintenance"
Because really John, I am at a loss to figure out what sort of extravagant nuances exist on a Bonanza that would require some sort of specialized skill. Any good A&P worth his salt is fully capable of inspecting and maintaining one.
The "Beechcraft maintenance" post just came across as a bit hoity-toity and somewhat humorous so I made a short comment about it. You don't need to take it personal. I'm happy your happy so we're both happy. Let's just leave it at that.