Why No Prebuys???

Kristin said:
There is nothing about that statement that is remotely correct from a legal standpoint, though I understand your frustration.

An annual is no protection, but at least you make some more money off of it. The best way to protect yourself on a pre-buy is to have an agreed upon scope of the inspection and an indemnity agreement. The latter should hold up in most courts, but likely would not for an annual inspection.
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Or, as home inspectors often do, put a limitation of liability clause limiting the liability to the cost of the inspection.
 
I hired the guy from Cardinal Flyers Online to fly down and take a look at my plane before I bought my share of it. He said right up front that he's not an A&P, and is not going to be guaranteeing anything or doing any repairs, etc. He was just going to take a look based on his experience with the type, show me what to look for, and give me his general opinion about the plane. We removed inspection panels, the cowling, borescoped the wings to check for corrosion, etc. It was well worth it, in my opinion, if only for the peace of mind. I also test flew it with my CFI to make sure there were no obvious issues in flight, and the avionics worked.
 
Tom-D said:
I don't believe that aircraft was coated with preservative, mice don't like that stuff. had it been coated properly the mouse pee would have not done any damage.
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Coated with what?
 
bnt83 said:
Cats themselves or blood? Or cat urine?
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I was thinking cats themselves. On a long lead. I'm just funning. I don't know how well corrosion inhibitor works against rodent urine...
 
JimNtexas said:
Our flying club pulls the plastic every annual, looking for corrosion. That's especially important with our C177RG.
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For the carry through but cripes not for everything. You don't need to pull plastic trim for seat rails or pulleys and there's either a zipper or small removable flat piece for the cross over cables.
 
JimNtexas said:
Our flying club pulls the plastic every annual, looking for corrosion. That's especially important with our C177RG.
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Ya my shop always pulled it out of my C150 once a year ..(several hundred hour inspections a year) . I replaced it ALL eventually ..worth every penny
 
ahkahn said:
Of course, any purchase would be rock solid if we all had crystal balls...
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I know there is a joke in there somewhere ... :yes:


And Kristin ... if the fit ever hits the shan, I want you sitting on MY side of the room. Nice analysis. :yesnod:

Jim
 
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I took my '67 Bonanza to a Bonanza expert for a pre-buy. He and another mechanic spent a whole day crawling in and around that plane. They found about $10k worth of squawks, including some 48 year old wrist pins that had never been replaced. I was able to negotiate most of that off the purchase price. He charged $900, which was money well spent. I had him fix the airworthiness items right away, but since the annual was due in three months, I waited (on his advice) to do the rest at annual when he was going to have the whole thing opened up any way. It is in annual now and I am expecting a substantial bill.

He said the plan had had pretty good general maintenance, but it didn't have good "Bonanza maintenance".
 
JOhnH said:
...but it didn't have good "Bonanza maintenance".
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All it takes is...

money_to_burn_t180.JPG
 
Ok....inquiring minds just gotta know. What is that...wing bolts? :yikes:
JOhnH said:
I took my '67 Bonanza to a Bonanza expert for a pre-buy. He and another mechanic spent a whole day crawling in and around that plane. They found about $10k worth of squawks, including some 48 year old wrist pins that had never been replaced. I was able to negotiate most of that off the purchase price. He charged $900, which was money well spent. I had him fix the airworthiness items right away, but since the annual was due in three months, I waited (on his advice) to do the rest at annual when he was going to have the whole thing opened up any way. It is in annual now and I am expecting a substantial bill.

He said the plan had had pretty good general maintenance, but it didn't have good "Bonanza maintenance".
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Checkout_my_Six said:
Ok....inquiring minds just gotta know. What is that...wing bolts? :yikes:
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Now I know that some people are going to say I'm too stupid to own a plane, because I don't know, but they had something to do with the landing gear. This is my first retract so I'm not that familiar with them.
 
JOhnH said:
Now I know that some people are going to say I'm too stupid to own a plane, because I don't know, but they had something to do with the landing gear. This is my first retract so I'm not that familiar with them.
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ok....I'll do a search for that. I'm a fairly new Bonanza owner and I've not heard that one. Could be another way of saying the bushings were worn in the gear linkage?

When I think of a wrist pin....I think of the pin that holds the piston to the rod.....like this.
MushroomedWristPin.jpg
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
keep up there Tom.....that's not what he's talking about.

Go back and find one on a Bonanza landing gear....:D
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where does he say anything about landing gear?

OK I see it, I got hung up on " too stupid ".
 
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Tom-D said:
where does he say anything about landing gear?
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JOhnH said:
Now I know that some people are going to say I'm too stupid to own a plane, because I don't know, but they had something to do with the landing gear. This is my first retract so I'm not that familiar with them.
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:rolleyes:

Now Tom, your a fairly smart man....ever hear of a plane needing wrist pins for a pre-buy? :mad2::nono:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
ok....I'll do a search for that. I'm a fairly new Bonanza owner and I've not heard that one. Could be another way of saying the bushings were worn in the gear linkage?

When I think of a wrist pin....I think of the pin that holds the piston to the rod.....like this.
MushroomedWristPin.jpg
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I can't think of anything I would call a wrist pin in the gear by memory. There is a shear pin on the nose gear.
 
jesse said:
I can't think of anything I would call a wrist pin in the gear by memory. There is a shear pin on the nose gear.
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Me either..

I think some naive new owner is being scammed.

10k with of gripes? WTF? and he bought it anyway, :(
 
jesse said:
I can't think of anything I would call a wrist pin in the gear by memory. There is a shear pin on the nose gear.
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Maybe it was a shear pin. We were at the shop all day and it was around 8pm before we got the verbal report. Based on the information given, I told the broker to negotiate the price of the estimated squawks off the sales price. He did and we signed the contract.
 
Tom-D said:
Me either..

I think some naive new owner is being scammed.

10k with of gripes? WTF? and he bought it anyway, :(
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I would buy it no problem with 10k of problems if the price were adjusted accordingly.

JohnH has always seemed like an intelligent person and successful business owner so I wouldn't call him naive or assume he didn't make a good purchase. Let's keep things friendly guys.
 
Tom-D said:
Me either..

I think some naive new owner is being scammed.

10k with of gripes? WTF? and he bought it anyway, :(
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Why not? The inspector is one of the top Bonanza guys in the country with a great reputation. He said the plane could be put in top notch shape for $10g. The seller was good with that. I was and am still happy.
 
jesse said:
I would buy it no problem with 10k of problems if the price were adjusted accordingly.
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Where did this thread discuss that? was the price reduced?

Tell me what Beech maintenance is?
 
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ahkahn said:
This is all true, but an annual should/would be a major cornerstone of a purchase for me. Not the only cornerstone, but a major one. Your points about test flight, avionics check, and annual would be the major decision points for me on assessing how solid the purchase is.

Of course, any purchase would be rock solid if we all had crystal balls...
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I can't argue against that personal choice. Whether it is a worthwhile investment depends a lot on circumstances and the value of the aircraft. I would never try to talk anyone out of going with an annual in addition to the rest of the necessary parts of a pre-buy inspections if that is what they wanted. I only object to the statement that an annual is a substitute for the other components of a pre-buy.
 
jesse said:
I'm curious as well....
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My $0.02 on the C177 carry thru spar (and similar aircraft)

I know everyone immediately jumps to Corrosion X or ACF 50. Some would even spray some sort of primer all over it which IMHO would be a mistake and make me suspicious if someone was hiding something.

I'd use Dinatrol AV30 on all areas that were easily reachable with an acid brush. This stuff dries to a translucent waxy film that isn't easily removed yet can sorta see through it.

For areas of the spar that have other parts riveted or bolted to it, I'd use Dinatrol AV 8 with is a thinner version of the AV30 and penetrates better.

Acid etch & Alodine seems like a bad idea.

Spraying with primer seems equally bad as it can trap junk in the seams.

ACF-50 needs to be reapplied

Corrosion - X probably more appropriate than ACF50.

If the spar was being installed I'd get Cessna's take on what conversion coating process should be used and send it out and have it done. Then spray with Akzo Nobel epoxy primer prior to installation. Then I'd be tempted to install the bolts and rivets wet with PS870 sealant including a thin coating of it between the spar flange, and all the sheets.
 
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jesse said:
I would buy it no problem with 10k of problems if the price were adjusted accordingly.

JohnH has always seemed like an intelligent person and successful business owner so I wouldn't call him naive or assume he didn't make a good purchase. Let's keep things friendly guys.
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Thanks Jesse.
For just a little more than I sold my 110 kt C-172 I now have a 168kt Bonanza with an engine w 90 hours (30 of them mine). It flies rock solid stable and is much quieter than the 172. And it's a lot more fun.
 
JOhnH said:
"Beech maintenance" is maintenance that is done on a Beechcraft by someone that knows what they are doing.
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So when do you get maintenance done on any aircraft by someone who doesn't know what they are doing? Beech's are just airplanes like any other, they have no elaborate or unusual structural or mechanical characteristics, they've got maintenance manuals.

But there are mechanics who would have you believe that only they know the "secrets" and that usually comes with a big bill attached. :rolleyes:
 
Silvaire said:
So when do you get maintenance done on any aircraft by someone who doesn't know what they are doing? Beech's are just airplanes like any other, they have no elaborate or unusual structural or mechanical characteristics, they've got maintenance manuals.

But there are mechanics who would have you believe that only they know the "secrets" and that usually comes with a big bill attached. :rolleyes:
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There are mechanics that know Beechcraft better than other mechanics. And there are mechanics that don't know much about Beechcraft. Or do you think all mechanics know everything about all airplanes?

You seem to have something against people that can afford to and don't mind, paying for quality. Is it jealousy?
 
Silvaire said:
So when do you get maintenance done on any aircraft by someone who doesn't know what they are doing? Beech's are just airplanes like any other, they have no elaborate or unusual structural or mechanical characteristics, they've got maintenance manuals.

But there are mechanics who would have you believe that only they know the "secrets" and that usually comes with a big bill attached. :rolleyes:
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IMX, it is the mechanics that are not familiar with the peculiarities of a particular aircraft that run up the big bills. Either it takes them more time to do the job, or you are paying them by the hour to read the service manual, or they screw up something that you later have to fix.
 
Kristin said:
IMX, it is the mechanics that are not familiar with the peculiarities of a particular aircraft that run up the big bills. Either it takes them more time to do the job, or you are paying them by the hour to read the service manual, or they screw up something that you later have to fix.
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Yeah, that too. And Bonanza's probably have more peculiarities than most planes.
 
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