Why do Pipers have 1 door?

WannFly

WannFly

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Most pipers I have seen have 1 door on the pax side, may be there are pipers who have 2 doors ..no idea ... and there are other's like Bo etc that have 4 seat-er SEL with one door on the passenger side.

Why? seriously .. whats the rationale behind this design? I have read the usual ones...

-- captain first one to enter, last one to leave
-- so the passenger can SkyDive
-- so the passenger can open the door and puke(instead of puking on the pilot if the only door was on the pilot side)
-- so that pilot cant just open the door and jump out of the plane just to spook the pax
--old tradition
...and many more

the question is, is there anything aerodynamic in this? there a lot of models with 1 door on the pax side (various companies), so designers and engineers must have a rationale. What is it?

its not about 1 door vs 2 door, its about 1 door and its on the pax side. if you want argue about 1 door vs 2 door, start your own thread :D
 
It is a structure and cost issue. Adding doors increases the parts count and the cost. Adding doors takes a huge chunk out of the side of an airplane, creating a more challenging structural situation. So you have to add structure and weight to compensate for the door opening.
 
I think the 1 door planes have the door on the passenger side so nobody leaves their children in the plane on the ramp. It happens too often in automobiles. Aerospace has designed it out.
 
As said, cost and weight leads to one door. Pax vs pilot side, tradition from the J-3,is my guess since it was on the right side then. A guess about the J-3, it was easier to get to the right side after hand propping.

Cheers
 
WannFly said:
its not about 1 door vs 2 door, its about 1 door and its on the pax side. if you want argue about 1 door vs 2 door, start your own thread :D
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Not just Piper -- look at Cessna (C-310, 320, 336/7), Beech, Bellanca and Mooney. The only post-WW2 low-wing single I can think of, with the only over-wing door on the left, is the Navion Rangemaster of the early 1960s.

I've never heard a definitive explanation of the reason for having the only door on the right. My WAG is that it goes back to the inter-war period, when airplanes typically had power controls mounted on the left sidewall, so the pilot could fly the stick with the right hand. Tandem-seat airplanes generally have the door on the right, including all Cubs since day one.

Whatever the reason, it created problems for my dad, who suffered mightily from claustrophobia. He had no problem in the high-wing Cessnas he owned with doors on both sides, but he couldn't handle flying left seat in an airplane with no door on that side. He just had to have a door there.
 
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ok I get the structure and cost part .. but why on the Pax side? in case of an emergency the chances are the pax will be much more overwhelmed than the pilot, its much more possible that the pilot would be able to get the door open much faster than the freaked out first time GA pax ...
 
In addition, although it is very difficult to imagine nowadays, people boarded automobiles from the right side in the 1930s in 1940s, even though left door was available. You can still find old short films on Youtube that highlight such practice. Some of them are ads of old cars with a column-mounted shifter, where one supposed advantage was that the driver didn't have to navigate the floor-mounted shifter when boarding from the right. Bench seating made it easier.
 
Pilawt said:
Whatever the reason, it created problems for my dad, who suffered mightily from claustrophobia. He had no problem in the high-wing Cessnas he owned with doors on both sides, but he couldn't handle flying left seat in an airplane with no door on that side.
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I prefer low wings, but most non pilots I fly with hate Pipers for this very reason, it feels claustrophobic. I'm honestly not sure the *rational* reasoning behind it, it's not like you'll open the door at 4,500 and get out, plus the door is on the pax side anyway, but for some reason people seem to hate it for the claustrophobia factor, so the majority of my flying is on high wings now. I bet if you could swing the windows open like you can on a later build 172s that would help tremendously with the claustrophobia

There was just one friend I took flying in college who liked the low wings, he felt they were safer since you were basically sitting on top of the wing, and didn't feel like you were hanging below it (which I admit can be an odd feeling being under the wing)

Perception is reality
 
I have one better. Ever looked at a PA-46? You load up from the rear left side.

Then the pilot needs to show horn in the pilot seat.:D
 
Tantalum said:
I prefer low wings, but most non pilots I fly with hate Pipers for this very reason, it feels claustrophobic. I'm honestly not sure the *rational* reasoning behind it, it's not like you'll open the door at 4,500 and get out, plus the door is on the pax side anyway, but for some reason people seem to hate it for the claustrophobia factor, so the majority of my flying is on high wings now. I bet if you could swing the windows open like you can on a later build 172s that would help tremendously with the claustrophobia

There was just one friend I took flying in college who liked the low wings, he felt they were safer since you were basically sitting on top of the wing, and didn't feel like you were hanging below it (which I admit can be an odd feeling being under the wing)

Perception is reality
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Damn man, that's me. I am totally in both categories and aware it is irrational.

I dislike Cessnas to a small extent. I feel like I am dangling from something. I learned in a 172 and @JCranford has been tremendously kind to me lately as my plane is in annual and he has been letting me safety pilot for him in his 182. I am a terrible passenger and in high wings, I am worse. I know its 100% mental but I get stressed out because I am hanging from the thing that is really flying. I know its dumb.

1 door? Same deal. totally mental but I feel like I am trapped in them. I get that it is totally nonsense but oh well, I sympathize w/ the folks you mentioned.
 
midcap said:
I have one better. Ever looked at a PA-46? You load up from the rear left side.

Then the pilot needs to show horn in the pilot seat.:D
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HAHA I flew in a Mirage once and I go "Seriously, this is the only way in and out? For everyone?"
Nice plane though. It flies just and lands like the Cirrus.
 
WannFly said:
its not about 1 door vs 2 door, its about 1 door and its on the pax side.
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I've wondered the same too, and this below is the best responses I've read on here so far:

Pilawt said:
My WAG is that it goes back to the inter-war period, when airplanes typically had power controls mounted on the left sidewall, so the pilot could fly the stick with the right hand.
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A lot of these things are tradition based, and this makes sense. Also, given the direction the prop turns, wouldn't hand propping it mean the pax side door is on a more logical side, if you're already standing on the right side of the plane?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Damn man, that's me. I am totally in both categories and aware it is irrational.

I dislike Cessnas to a small extent. I feel like I am dangling from something. I learned in a 172 and @JCranford has been tremendously kind to me lately as my plane is in annual and he has been letting me safety pilot for him in his 182. I am a terrible passenger and in high wings, I am worse. I know its 100% mental but I get stressed out because I am hanging from the thing that is really flying. I know its dumb.

1 door? Same deal. totally mental but I feel like I am trapped in them. I get that it is totally nonsense but oh well, I sympathize w/ the folks you mentioned.
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if you don't like hanging from something..think you got the wrong plane .... isn't chute the only way to land a Cirrus? :happydance:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHA I flew in a Mirage once and I go "Seriously, this is the only way in and out? For everyone?"
Nice plane though. It flies just and lands like the Cirrus.
Click to expand...

I tried to get in the pilot seat and I gave up fearing I'd get stuck.lol
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I dislike Cessnas to a small extent. I feel like I am dangling from something. I learned in a 172 and @JCranford has been tremendously kind to me lately as my plane is in annual and he has been letting me safety pilot for him in his 182. I am a terrible passenger and in high wings, I am worse. I know its 100% mental but I get stressed out because I am hanging from the thing that is really flying. I know its dumb.

1 door? Same deal. totally mental but I feel like I am trapped in them. I get that it is totally nonsense but oh well, I sympathize w/ the folks you mentioned.
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It never used to bother me, but a few winters ago I developed a completely irrational and borderline ski-hobby-ending fear of chairlifts after stopping for a good 15 minutes between two poles at a high section... since then the 172s bother me. I block it out when flying them but I don't spend a ton of time looking out the window and just seeing the tire there with nothing under it. It's completely irrational and bazaar, but what can you do

On the single door Pipers I actually have one of those little hammer things that I keep by my leg where the checklists go. I still prefer one door and sit ON the wing than 2 and hang under it. I have no idea how well those car hammers would work on the plane glass, but it's something

That's why when it comes time to buy a plane the SR20 will be high on the list (despite all my ranting about retracts, etc.) the SR20 would still give me the best of what I'm looking for and results in the least amount of compromises for me (which is probably why they lead in sales, the Cirrus design checks the most boxes for most people)
 
Tantalum said:
On the single door Pipers I actually have one of those little hammer things that I keep by my leg ... when it comes time to buy a plane the SR20 will be high on the list
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As it happens, the SR20 will not only come with two doors, it will also come with an eight-ounce ball-peen hammer.

It's stowed in the armrest between the front seats. You strike the corners of the windows, and the windows will pop out, or so they claim.
 
NoHeat said:
As it happens, the SR20 will not only come with two doors, it will also come with an eight-ounce ball-peen hammer.

It's stowed in the armrest between the front seats. You strike the corners of the windows, and the windows will pop out, or so they claim.
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My 3D cell maglight easily turns the pilot side window (or any window) on the cherokee into a door.
 
NoHeat said:
As it happens, the SR20 will not only come with two doors, it will also come with an eight-ounce ball-peen hammer.

It's stowed in the armrest between the front seats. You strike the corners of the windows, and the windows will pop out, or so they claim.
Click to expand...
See... it's things like this why Cirrus is leading in sales. How much extra does that cost them, a few bucks?
 
wait....my last Piper had three doors. No one but thrice... :eek:

One forward and one in the rear....and an additional door up front for the forward baggage compartment. ;)
 
Tantalum said:
See... it's things like this why Cirrus is leading in sales. How much extra does that cost them, a few bucks?
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LOL. The fire extinguisher would work fine in that situation.
Nice marketing touch for the ladies though!
 
Tantalum said:
See... it's things like this why Cirrus is leading in sales. How much extra does that cost them, a few bucks?
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Yeah but if you lose that hammer...
I'm sure the replacement hammer will find a way to be 500 bucks.
 
Tantalum said:
See... it's things like this why Cirrus is leading in sales. How much extra does that cost them, a few bucks?
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Nah, they likely charge you $49.99. See anything Cirrus has to be monogrammed with your name, with a custom grip and made out of titanium. Don't forget the carbon fiber embellishments and there is probably a flight supplement for its usage. Also, don't forget the "complimentary" DVD to illustrate its usage in flight. Oh and its custom carrying case...etc...:rolleyes:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
wait....my last Piper had three doors. No one but thrice... :eek:

One forward and one in the rear....and an additional door up front for the forward baggage compartment. ;)
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You might want to recount..... If you are counting the nose baggage door, you may as well count the baggage door in the back.
 
WannFly said:
the question is, is there anything aerodynamic in this? there a lot of models with 1 door on the pax side (various companies), so designers and engineers must have a rationale. What is it?
Click to expand...

It's just a guess, but I'm going with "institutional intelligence". :D

With the Piper Cubs, the door was on the right because it was easier to enter after hand propping. When they came out with the first airplanes with starters, they put the the single door on the right side because "that's where it's always been".

When other manufactures started building single door planes, they followed the convention because... that's how everyone else does it.
 
For your typical Piper, the one door lets you get into both seats - front and rear. And, putting the door on the right puts you in a position to flip the prop from behind and reach the throttle - particularly important if you are on floats. Of course, many Pipers now have electric starters, but when the design came out hand propping was "standard".
Skip to 1:45 for the re-start
 
midcap said:
I have one better. Ever looked at a PA-46? You load up from the rear left side.

Then the pilot needs to show horn in the pilot seat.:D
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Every cabin class aircraft is that way, save for the rare few that have a pilot hatch.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
Every cabin class aircraft is that way, save for the rare few that have a pilot hatch.
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Not exactly. Most of the cabin class airplanes typically have a single rear air stair, but not all require a shoe-horn to get the pilot into the front seat like the Malibu or C340.
 
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