Who is PIC?

jmaynard said:
Dan, I'd be happy to fly with you in my airplane, but - and this is not intended to denigrate your flying abilities - you don't know diddly about flying it, and you will not be able to fly it safely without at least a bit of a checkout. (The elevator is very sensitive and responsive.) Do you honestly expect me to take you flying in it under the conditions you list? I, too, operate under the "most chicken pilot wins" rule. All you have to do is say "I'm not comfortable with doing that", and we won't. No muss, no fuss, no angst.

If you'd started out with that approach, there's not a person on here who'd argue. By saying "I'm going to be PIC, period", you came across as unnecessarily confrontational. That's not a good attitude to take into any cockpit, no matter what kind of airplane, no matter how much experience you have, and no matter who's doing the flying.
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You go back and read all the posts, you will see that the first statement I made that sounded "confrontational" came from my recent experiences of being asked to fly with someone rusty or someone learning. I have already said many times I did not explain that very well.

As for flying your plane, I am trusting you that I will not have to. All you have to do is fly it in a safe and legal manner and you will never relinquish the controls. That's great that you operate under the "Most chicken pilot wins rule". So if that's the rule then what is the problem. I say stop and you stop. When did I touch anything. You want me, to trust you, that you will stop, but what your saying is; I don't trust you, that if I don't stop, that you will not ask for the controls.

It is quite obvious that most of you have not flown with someone who has little regards for the rules. You have not been in a plane where you said I'd rather you did not do that and had it done anyway. A band crashed the other day and one of the surviving members said "I will never fly again". Are you going to hold that against him? If he said "I will never fly again unless I have control over the outcome of the flight". Are you going to hold that against him? He may never fly with you, but do you think he cares. Can you blame him? He did trust in the past maybe more than once.

By the way, (If you'd started out with that approach, there's not a person on here who'd argue.) I totally agree, if pilots take the time to join a group like this chances are they are a very conscientious pilot. Too bad I do not get to fly with pilots like these. Why do you think that I joined this group. It's nice to be able to talk to a pilot once in a while that cares about making the right ADM.

Dan
 
Why are people still wasting their time on this?
 
stingray said:
As for flying your plane, I am trusting you that I will not have to. All you have to do is fly it in a safe and legal manner and you will never relinquish the controls.
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In my airplane, I will not relinquish the controls unless I choose to, no matter what the guy in the other seat says. Period. There's a word for taking control in a vessel underway from the lawful master: hijacking.

It is quite obvious that most of you have not flown with someone who has little regards for the rules.
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Have not, and will not. It's usually pretty obvious who does and who does not.
 
jmaynard said:
Have not, and will not. It's usually pretty obvious who does and who does not.
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Yes, Jay that's what I thought. Big, Big, mistake. Drives my point home even further. You just never know, sometimes until it is too late. NTSB is full of examples if you care to look.

Dan
 
stingray said:
NTSB is full of examples if you care to look.

Dan
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What should I use as a search string?

Dan, some advice. For your own sanity, just fly yourself in airplanes you rent or own. That way you can operate the airplane however you want. It seems like anything else will just drive you nuts.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
What should I use as a search string?

Dan, some advice. For your own sanity, just fly yourself in airplanes you rent or own. That way you can operate the airplane however you want. It seems like anything else will just drive you nuts.
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That's the funny thing, I have no problem with someone else flying, my plane or otherwise, from the left seat even. I even prefer it on some occations. If I was going on a trip with someone I would prefer that they were comfortable. Safety wise you now have two pilots that can control the plane if need be. The only thing that bothers me is the ADM. You do not need to have the controls to have control of ADM. The way I look at it You have two pilots controlling. The pilot at the controls controls the plane and makes ADM choices. As long as these choices are safe and legal the second pilot never comes into play. (First chicken wins rule).

I do not go around asking for rides and when I do (very slim) I accept that the other pilot is both PIC and at the controls. What I do get is, "Would you like to deliver a plane to AZ with me". My response is "You fly the left seat and do the flying, but I make all the ADM. It is either a go or no go. And your right it does just drive me nut's I am uncomfortable if I do not have control over the safety of the flight. That's why I do not go.

I used "two pilots died" and then "three." I also had found a site about famous people that died in plane crashes. A lot of people I did not even know were dead, died in plane crashes. Most crashes are because of bad ADM.

Dan
 
tonycondon said:
welcome to winter. its too cold outside to do anything else.
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Tell me about it. We found some good air leaks on my Aztec (brr...) but it's too cold to want to fix them.

And my driveway is 6" of snow over 1" of solid ice, so my truck is living at the top of the driveway. Mother nature hasn't gotten warm enough to fix this.

And my dog has been crapping in my basement every night. It's cold enough out that I can't keep him outside.

Hmm... what else can I complain about...
 
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